Guess What (follow-up)?
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.
> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
Steve Sears wrote:
> JP,
> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who
is
> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the
extra 100
> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what
the rep
> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of
the
> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy
treatment.
> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not
continue with
> them?
This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no
matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is
at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,
somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were
under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying
work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do
with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering
(which is still a maybe.)
I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made
known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know
where *not* to go.
It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That
way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,
they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his
truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't
break down. Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,
however, is.
E.P.
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
Steve Sears wrote:
> JP,
> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who
is
> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the
extra 100
> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what
the rep
> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of
the
> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy
treatment.
> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not
continue with
> them?
This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no
matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is
at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,
somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were
under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying
work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do
with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering
(which is still a maybe.)
I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made
known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know
where *not* to go.
It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That
way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,
they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his
truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't
break down. Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,
however, is.
E.P.
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
Steve Sears wrote:
> JP,
> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who
is
> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the
extra 100
> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what
the rep
> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of
the
> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy
treatment.
> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not
continue with
> them?
This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no
matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is
at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,
somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were
under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying
work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do
with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering
(which is still a maybe.)
I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made
known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know
where *not* to go.
It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That
way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,
they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his
truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't
break down. Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.
In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,
however, is.
E.P.
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
JP Roberts wrote:
> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
you're
> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that
this
> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by
the
> make - read dealer.
But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done
it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in
you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.
E.P.
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
JP Roberts wrote:
> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
you're
> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that
this
> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by
the
> make - read dealer.
But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done
it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in
you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.
E.P.
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
JP Roberts wrote:
> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
you're
> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that
this
> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by
the
> make - read dealer.
But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done
it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in
you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.
E.P.
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Guess What (follow-up)?
Wolfgang Pawlinetz wrote:
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned.
That's true. With my recent fuel pump follies, my independent was
quite embarrassed about not finding the problem, even with all the
billing he did. It was all legit - he spent time trying to track down
an intermittent problem. It just so happened that it finally failed
away from his shop. I have always been happy with my mechanic - he
does a great job at low prices, and if he goofs, he covers out of his
own pocket. All of our high-mileage Audis have been solid, and even
though the parts are somewhat expensive, they are no worse that the
same parts for Japanese cars. While I'm not a big fan of dealerships
in general (high rates, 100% book-time charges), a few of the
relatively local ones have been very helpful in sorting minor DIY
stuff. Like how to replace bulbs when the mounting hardware is not as
simple as it first appears.
JPR's dealer sounds like a place to avoid, but they are not *all* like
that...
E.P.