In article <rNYcc.7876$EV2.68209@amstwist00>,
"Alfistagj" <alfistagjOnReplyPleaseRemoveThis@chello.nl> wrote:

> <MajorDome@mailcity.com> schreef in bericht
> news:40743A30.584A0E26@mailcity.com...
> > I believe people that can't afford the gas to run their vehicles
> > should ride bicycles and public transportation or buy smaller
> > cars like the do in Europe.
>
> Mike, have you been to Europe lately?
> Our cars are the same size as the modern USA cars, only the fuel consumption
> is at least 30% lower.
> And we have a great amount of highly efficient, powerful and silent (!!)
> diesel engined cars, even sportcars doing over 250km/h (>150mph)!!
> Diesels are even 25 to 45% more efficient than the gas/petrol ones!!!!!
> Problem in the USA is the they don't have the diesel quality as in Europe.
> Our diesel don't smoke like the USA trucks do becuase of a combination of
> diesel engine technique and fuel quality.
> The engines are soo clean that even particle filters are not needed any
> more!

It's simple really. The advancements in Diesel technology of which you
speak depends upon the availability of 'sweet' or low-sulfur crude. The
US has no sweet crude, because the two mains sources for it are Libya
and around the Black Sea. Both of these are European oil sources. This
is ironic because these wonderful EuroDiesel engines you talk about are
based on engine research done in Detroit by GM. I know you are right
because I have driven Alfa Romeo's 2.4 liter JTD powered 156 for many
thousands of kilometers around Italy and France, and I didn't even
notice that it was a Diesel until I went to refuel it the first time.

> > Those that want to save the planet,
> > and can afford them, should buy hybrids and electric cars.
> > Reduce the demand and the price will drop.
>
> When tha's were to be true you would be getting everything only you would
> want for free as there would be no demand.........
>
> > That will make gas cheaper for those of us that that can offered to buy
> and still
> > want to drive the big V8 cars that are far safer
>
> Ever looked at the NACAP demolition test values of theose "small" European
> cars????
> They out perform EVERY modern USA gas guzzler
>
> > and more comfortable. That way everyone gets what they want without
> > infringing of the rights of others to buy what they want.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
>
> To avoid any mis-unterstanding: I'm a truely Dutch social liberal ( "lefty"
> in USA terms) who is proud of "our" liberal society; every one should be
> free to do and act the way they like, even (especially?) when I don't agree.
> A naked nipple? A marihuana joint? A real majority president? Real "free
> acting" politicians? "Normal" speedlimits? No hand guns? No war?
> PLEASE!

You paint quite a picture of la vie en rose, friend. Too bad it doesn't
work nearly as well as you would have us think.

--
George Graves
------------------
"If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
Juan Manuel Fangio
5-time world Grand Prix champion

 

In article <407434D7.962ACD5F@mailcity.com>, MajorDome@mailcity.com
wrote:

> I suppose if the voters of a state are going to elect people to
> office that pass legislation that prevents drilling, refining,
> and storing of oil and laws that restrict the types of fuel they
> can burn then one SHOULD expects to pay the cost of implementing
> that legislation, don't you think? California could lower their
> gas prices by 65 cents a gallon if they would simply use the SAME
> gasoline used in some of the surrounding states. To me
> California is a prime example of environmental legislation run
> amuck and should be a lesson the voter of the other states.

Ain't it the truth. Too bad the best cars are here!


> mike hunt
>
> If Jesus drove a vehicle it would be a 15 passenger Ford
> Econoline van, the only thing with room for his disciples
> and all their stuff
>
>
>
> George Graves wrote:
> >
> > In article <kIGdnScYVt1RM-_dRVn-ig@adelphia.com>,
> > "Dave Smith" <davewsmith@adelphia.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Tell me about it, im from ne PA, premium is around $1.85, could be worse
> > > though. I wonder what it is down in Key West FL?
> >
> > Try California. In the San Francisco Bay Area this week, for instance,
> > 87 Octane ( CA regular) is about $2.05/gal, 89 Octane is about
> > $2.15/gal, and 92 Octane (The highest octane generally available in
> > California) is about $2.25/gal. I expect to see 92 octane petrol at
> > about $3.00/gal by July 4.
> >
> > --
> > George Graves
> > ------------------
> > "If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
> > Juan Manuel Fangio
> > 5-time world Grand Prix champion

--
George Graves
------------------
"If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
Juan Manuel Fangio
5-time world Grand Prix champion

 

In article <40743199.5178DA04@mailcity.com>, MajorDome@mailcity.com
wrote:

> You certainly are entitle to your opinion but the discussion was
> ALL about fuel mileage. I'll bet you drive a Toyota because you
> have obviously never driven a Lincoln LS if you think the Camry
> is more nimble. Secondly I don't know were you get your opinion
> about the handling of the Mustang GT but in the past few years
> I've owned both the Solara and the Mustang GT convertibles and
> I'll take the 2004 GT any day of the week for handling at speed
> over the FWD 2004 Solara.
>
>
> mike hunt

Well, Mike, I don't know who you've got me confused with, because
frankly, I wouldn't give you a nickel for either of them. I've driven a
stock 2004 Mustang GT (with IRS, yet) around Leguna Seca raceway, and
after trying all morning, I took my 18-year old Alfa Romeo GTV-6 out and
beat by best Mustang lap time by almost 30 seconds. As for the Solara,
I've never driven one, as I said earlier. In fact I don't really like
Japanese cars because they are designed by engineers who take the train
to work and they drive like that. Technically very good, without an
ounce of soul in a container ship load.

Just for reference, I currently have three cars of my own. A very hot
Alfa Romeo GTV-6 3.0 liter, a Ferrari 308 GT4, and as a "daily driver,"
a 2003 VW GTI 1.8 Turbo.

--
George Graves
------------------
"If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
Juan Manuel Fangio
5-time world Grand Prix champion

 

"George Graves" <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:
> In article <40743199.5178DA04@mailcity.com>, MajorDome@mailcity.com
> wrote:
> [snip ...]
> In fact I don't really like
> Japanese cars because they are designed by engineers who take the train
> to work and they drive like that. Technically very good, without an
> ounce of soul in a container ship load.

George, I can't fault your choice of cars whatsoever. Fun-to-drive is very
important in my book, too. But I really gotta say I detect no small amount
of the substance that starts "religious wars" in your post. You seem to be
quite
willing to dismiss broad categories of cars ("Japanese cars") with a wave of
your
hand, as being soulless.

It sure sounds like the standard
"American-cars-are-big-and-fat-and-ponderous-
and
Japanese-cars-are-cleverly-engineered-but-possessing-no-verve-and-by-gum-
European-cars-are-done-right-and-have-soul-character-etc." The dearth of
Alfas in the US *could* be explained by saying that all Americans are idiot
cowboys who don't know a good thing when they see it, or it could be
explained
in other ways. Other ways that are equally dismissive blanket statements,
but
faulting Alfa.

We're talking over-generalizations here. Since over-generalizing is
apparently the
name of the game, let's suggest that your experience with your GTV-6, and
obvious
bias towards it and against the Mustang, had much to do with your poor
performance
when driving the Mustang. All cars are not made to be driven the same; I'm
sure you
would agree that one extracts the most out of a car by playing to its
strengths rather
than trying to make it conform to yours.

Yes, there are some seemingly "soulless" cars out there ... Camry, Buick,
Volvo.
Oops, European, isn't it? Yes, owned by Ford, but has been soulless for
decades.
A lot of "soulless" is in the eye of the beholder; any kid can pick up a
rock on a walk
and imbue it with special qualitities just because they found it ... impart
"soul" to it.
Adults just often see "some rock". Some adults just see what they want to
see ...

--
Rick K

 

Amen to that
Yup I drive one too, and it sucks gas like a mother....
it's a 78 E250 with the 460, tranny cooler towing package etc..
Pass everything but the gas station. And here we buy gas in litres...
Fred


George Graves wrote:
> In article <407434D7.962ACD5F@mailcity.com>, MajorDome@mailcity.com
> wrote:
>
>
>>I suppose if the voters of a state are going to elect people to
>>office that pass legislation that prevents drilling, refining,
>>and storing of oil and laws that restrict the types of fuel they
>>can burn then one SHOULD expects to pay the cost of implementing
>>that legislation, don't you think? California could lower their
>>gas prices by 65 cents a gallon if they would simply use the SAME
>>gasoline used in some of the surrounding states. To me
>>California is a prime example of environmental legislation run
>>amuck and should be a lesson the voter of the other states.
>
>
> Ain't it the truth. Too bad the best cars are here!
>
>
>
>>mike hunt
>>
>>If Jesus drove a vehicle it would be a 15 passenger Ford
>>Econoline van, the only thing with room for his disciples
>>and all their stuff
>>
>>
>>
>>George Graves wrote:
>>
>>>In article <kIGdnScYVt1RM-_dRVn-ig@adelphia.com>,
>>> "Dave Smith" <davewsmith@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tell me about it, im from ne PA, premium is around $1.85, could be worse
>>>>though. I wonder what it is down in Key West FL?
>>>
>>>Try California. In the San Francisco Bay Area this week, for instance,
>>>87 Octane ( CA regular) is about $2.05/gal, 89 Octane is about
>>>$2.15/gal, and 92 Octane (The highest octane generally available in
>>>California) is about $2.25/gal. I expect to see 92 octane petrol at
>>>about $3.00/gal by July 4.
>>>
>>>--
>>>George Graves
>>>------------------
>>>"If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
>>>Juan Manuel Fangio
>>>5-time world Grand Prix champion
>>
>

 

In article <rL1dc.4437$nR6.3358@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com> ,
"Rick K" <vroop@dingo-nonsense.org> wrote:

> "George Graves" <gmgravesnos@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > In article <40743199.5178DA04@mailcity.com>, MajorDome@mailcity.com
> > wrote:
> > [snip ...]
> > In fact I don't really like
> > Japanese cars because they are designed by engineers who take the train
> > to work and they drive like that. Technically very good, without an
> > ounce of soul in a container ship load.
>
> George, I can't fault your choice of cars whatsoever. Fun-to-drive is very
> important in my book, too. But I really gotta say I detect no small amount
> of the substance that starts "religious wars" in your post. You seem to be
> quite
> willing to dismiss broad categories of cars ("Japanese cars") with a wave of
> your
> hand, as being soulless.

May I say that I have owned 4 of them (including a 300 ZX Twin-Turbo)
and never really enjoyed any of them?

> It sure sounds like the standard
> "American-cars-are-big-and-fat-and-ponderous-
> and
> Japanese-cars-are-cleverly-engineered-but-possessing-no-verve-and-by-gum-
> European-cars-are-done-right-and-have-soul-character-etc." The dearth of
> Alfas in the US *could* be explained by saying that all Americans are idiot
> cowboys who don't know a good thing when they see it, or it could be
> explained
> in other ways. Other ways that are equally dismissive blanket statements,
> but
> faulting Alfa.

Alfa had nothing to sell here in their last few years. That and their
high maintenance (which I don't mind but most Americans would not
accept) killed their market. It's their fault, not the fault of the
American people,

> We're talking over-generalizations here. Since over-generalizing is
> apparently the
> name of the game, let's suggest that your experience with your GTV-6, and
> obvious
> bias towards it and against the Mustang, had much to do with your poor
> performance
> when driving the Mustang. All cars are not made to be driven the same; I'm
> sure you
> would agree that one extracts the most out of a car by playing to its
> strengths rather
> than trying to make it conform to yours.

Agreed. But the car was no fun and lots of work for little payback. I'm
sure on a drag-strip the Mustang would have soundly tranced my Alfa (and
probably my Ferrari) because that's it's strength. Face it, it is a an
inexpensive, mass produced car - an American car at that. Not exactly
known for their handling (but as Carol Shelby proved, they can certainly
be made to handle) or braking. I'm sure they're fine for those who buy
them, they just don't provide what I want in a car. OK?
>
> Yes, there are some seemingly "soulless" cars out there ... Camry, Buick,
> Volvo.
> Oops, European, isn't it? Yes, owned by Ford, but has been soulless for
> decades.

Yep, the original B20 (the one that looked like a 40 Ford) was the last
Volvo of any conseqence - unless you're a yuppie liberal who buy them
because it's the responsible thing to do.

> A lot of "soulless" is in the eye of the beholder; any kid can pick up a
> rock on a walk
> and imbue it with special qualitities just because they found it ... impart
> "soul" to it.
> Adults just often see "some rock". Some adults just see what they want to
> see ...

Frankly, I'm not all that fond of most European cars. Italian cars blow
my skirt up, but a VW looked like the best made car in that class, and
my last one lasted almost 20 years and over 200,000 miles. I figure that
was recommendation enough.

--
George Graves
------------------
"If God drove a car, it would surely be an Alfa Romeo."
Juan Manuel Fangio
5-time world Grand Prix champion

 

Seems to me that is obvious, even $5 a gallon gas is a bargain
in comparison.


mike hunt

 

So then what's the problem? You get what you want and we get
what we want.


mike hunt



Alfistagj wrote:
>
> <MajorDome@mailcity.com> schreef in bericht
> news:40743A30.584A0E26@mailcity.com...
> > I believe people that can't afford the gas to run their vehicles
> > should ride bicycles and public transportation or buy smaller
> > cars like the do in Europe.
>
> Mike, have you been to Europe lately?
> Our cars are the same size as the modern USA cars, only the fuel consumption
> is at least 30% lower.
> And we have a great amount of highly efficient, powerful and silent (!!)
> diesel engined cars, even sportcars doing over 250km/h (>150mph)!!
> Diesels are even 25 to 45% more efficient than the gas/petrol ones!!!!!
> Problem in the USA is the they don't have the diesel quality as in Europe.
> Our diesel don't smoke like the USA trucks do becuase of a combination of
> diesel engine technique and fuel quality.
> The engines are soo clean that even particle filters are not needed any
> more!
>
> > Those that want to save the planet,
> > and can afford them, should buy hybrids and electric cars.
> > Reduce the demand and the price will drop.
>
> When tha's were to be true you would be getting everything only you would
> want for free as there would be no demand.........
>
> > That will make gas cheaper for those of us that that can offered to buy
> and still
> > want to drive the big V8 cars that are far safer
>
> Ever looked at the NACAP demolition test values of theose "small" European
> cars????
> They out perform EVERY modern USA gas guzzler
>
> > and more comfortable. That way everyone gets what they want without
> > infringing of the rights of others to buy what they want.
> >
> >
> > mike hunt
>
> To avoid any mis-unterstanding: I'm a truely Dutch social liberal ( "lefty"
> in USA terms) who is proud of "our" liberal society; every one should be
> free to do and act the way they like, even (especially?) when I don't agree.
> A naked nipple? A marihuana joint? A real majority president? Real "free
> acting" politicians? "Normal" speedlimits? No hand guns? No war?
> PLEASE!
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> 156 SW 1.8 Madeno tuned (2000)
> Montreal (1973/4)

 

Actually the price of gas HAS dropped by 5C a gallon, in the
past week here in PA., down to $1.649.



mike hunt

 

Your are entitled to your opinion and you can spend your money
were you wish, as I do. All I can say is my 2003 Mustang GT
convertible was $5,000 cheaper and it 'gets around' at lot
quicker than my Solara convertible did, that's for sure. LOL


mike hunt




Mike Smith wrote:
>
> MajorDome@mailcity.com wrote:
>
> > KJ wrote:
> >>
> >> That's because it's a Ferd.
> >
> > One can buy a V8 Mustang GT convertible for at least $5,000
> > less than a V6 Solar Convertible. The $5,000 will buy all
> > of your gas for six or seven years.
>
> But it'll still be a Ford. There's just no getting around it. ;-P
>
> --
> Mike Smith