two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
I don't doubt you Mark! I believe you and thank goodness you survived with
no loss of life or property.
I have seen strange things over the course of years but I always TRY to find
a reason why.
I have even seen an oil pump cause a loss of engine compression so that an
engine dies.
Now could the ECM have raised the idle to that level? I think it is
possible.
Does yours have a check light or store codes in the ECM that might blink out
the codes or allow you to read with a scanner?
Let us know what you find, or if it happens again!
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)
"377" <boeing377@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1182097253.636428.318340@q19g2000prn.googlegr oups.com...
> Dave,
>
> I have a job. I am an electrical engineer. I never said the brakes
> wouldnt stop the car, they DID.
>
> I too once held a totally skeptical attitude about sudden accel. I
> thought it was senile drivers jamming on the gas harder and harder
> thinking it was the brake pedal. Maybe most of those cases were driver
> confusion caused, but mine was not.
>
> On the first instance I was driving UPHILL, and the car started to
> accelerate. I thought it was a runaway cruise control, took my foot
> off the gas, tapped the brakes, then even shut the cc off, all to no
> avail. I pulled over, pulled out the cc fuse and thought everything
> would be OK.
>
> Later that same day in 5 mph traffic, on flat ground, the engine wound
> up and I had to jam on the brakes to keep from hitting the person in
> front of me. When I got stopped and put it in neutral it was near
> redline RPM with BOTH FEET OFF THE PEDALS. I shut it off, restarted
> it, redline RPM again, right up against the rev limiter. On the next
> restart it was normal idle.
>
> I am not trying to make one red cent off Audi, just keep someone from
> getting killed. Believe me, a panicked driver with this problem could
> easily kill someone.
>
> If you think I dont know cars, I have rebuilt engines myself. I know
> the difference between a stuck throttle and an accelerating throttle.
> I am not an Audi expert but I am not an idiot either.
>
> If you think I panicked and jammed on the gas pedal you are wrong. I
> know how to keep cool. I have twice in my long skydiving career had to
> deal with main chute failures and I am obviously still alive.
>
> I totally understand your doubts, I once shared them.
>
> Mark
>
no loss of life or property.
I have seen strange things over the course of years but I always TRY to find
a reason why.
I have even seen an oil pump cause a loss of engine compression so that an
engine dies.
Now could the ECM have raised the idle to that level? I think it is
possible.
Does yours have a check light or store codes in the ECM that might blink out
the codes or allow you to read with a scanner?
Let us know what you find, or if it happens again!
--
later,
dave
(One out of many daves)
"377" <boeing377@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1182097253.636428.318340@q19g2000prn.googlegr oups.com...
> Dave,
>
> I have a job. I am an electrical engineer. I never said the brakes
> wouldnt stop the car, they DID.
>
> I too once held a totally skeptical attitude about sudden accel. I
> thought it was senile drivers jamming on the gas harder and harder
> thinking it was the brake pedal. Maybe most of those cases were driver
> confusion caused, but mine was not.
>
> On the first instance I was driving UPHILL, and the car started to
> accelerate. I thought it was a runaway cruise control, took my foot
> off the gas, tapped the brakes, then even shut the cc off, all to no
> avail. I pulled over, pulled out the cc fuse and thought everything
> would be OK.
>
> Later that same day in 5 mph traffic, on flat ground, the engine wound
> up and I had to jam on the brakes to keep from hitting the person in
> front of me. When I got stopped and put it in neutral it was near
> redline RPM with BOTH FEET OFF THE PEDALS. I shut it off, restarted
> it, redline RPM again, right up against the rev limiter. On the next
> restart it was normal idle.
>
> I am not trying to make one red cent off Audi, just keep someone from
> getting killed. Believe me, a panicked driver with this problem could
> easily kill someone.
>
> If you think I dont know cars, I have rebuilt engines myself. I know
> the difference between a stuck throttle and an accelerating throttle.
> I am not an Audi expert but I am not an idiot either.
>
> If you think I panicked and jammed on the gas pedal you are wrong. I
> know how to keep cool. I have twice in my long skydiving career had to
> deal with main chute failures and I am obviously still alive.
>
> I totally understand your doubts, I once shared them.
>
> Mark
>
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Jun 18, 4:02 am, "tockeyhoc...@gmail.com" <tockeyhoc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Jun 18, 4:02 am, "tockeyhoc...@gmail.com" <tockeyhoc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Jun 18, 4:02 am, "tockeyhoc...@gmail.com" <tockeyhoc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Jun 18, 4:02 am, "tockeyhoc...@gmail.com" <tockeyhoc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
wrote:
> Just a question, but why didn't you shift the car into neutral?
>
In hindsight that might have been the best thing to do depending on
road conitions. Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
lot of effort. I then shifted to neutral, but got redline RPM. On the
first incident (uphill on a winding highway) I thought about shifting
to neutral while underway on the road but it might have left me
stranded on a blind curve since you cant shift back into drive easily
when an engine is redlining. I managed to use brakes to slow down and
pull over on a turnout.
By the way, Audi US is interested. They are paying to have it
inspected at a dealer. They have assured me that there has not been
one single case where unintended acceleration was proven. I told them
this isn't a "case". I am not suing anyone. It is a safety issue. Look
at the NHTSA complaint records online. There are two nearly identical
incidents reported for 92 Audi 100S. I think what distinguishes these
incidents from most of the ones widely reported many years ago with
Audi 5000s is that they (the reported Audi 100 cases including mine)
occurred underway, not during parking or startup.
See this handwritten letter, below the stock reply:
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...-503613-YN.PDF
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
>Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
>the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
>lot of effort.
That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventially
slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
good as any Audi's disc brakes.
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
On Jun 18, 11:47 am, Dave LaCourse <dplacou...@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
> >the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
> >lot of effort.
>
> That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
> pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventually
> slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
> to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
> good as any Audi's disc brakes.
You probably didnt read the part where it seemed like brake boost
vacuum was lost or reduced before it accelerated. That does increase
pedal effort needed. I am NOT claiming that brakes failed to stop the
car, they DID stop it. I think the vacuum loss or decrease is somehow
related to the uncommanded rapid accel. I AGREE with you that the Audi
brakes can and do eventually stop the car even with a redlined motor.
All it takes is a strong and continuous application.
In the old Audi 5000 cases that got all the news the vast majority of
the cases were as follows (from a news article):
"The Audi story is by now, dismally familiar. "Sudden acceleration"
accidents occurred when the transmission was shifted out of "park."
The driver always insisted he was standing on the brake, but after the
crash the brakes always worked perfectly. A disproportionate number of
accidents involved drivers new to the vehicle. When an idiotproof
shift was installed so that a driver could not shift out of park if
his foot was on the accelerator, reports of sudden acceleration
plummeted."
My experience and the experience of several other 92 100S owners
reported on the NHSTA site was not like this. It was uncommanded
sudden acceleration while underway. I always thought the Audi 5000
claims were driver error, but believe me , my experience and the
experience of several other owners as reported to NHSTA is really
different and far less likely to involve a driver jamming hard on the
gas pedal thinking it is the brake pedal. No shifting from park to D.
I was a huge skeptic so I know where you are coming from. This is a
real problem and not lawyer driven or driver error. I am not claiming
that the brakes failed to stop the car.
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:57:46 -0700, 377 <boeing...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Your first instinct with a runaway throttle is to hit
> >the brakes and that is what I did first. It did stop the car with a
> >lot of effort.
>
> That is plain horse pucky. I had a 67 GTO with a stuck throttle (gas
> pedal to the floor) and I applied the brakes and the car eventually
> slowed to a safe speed where I could turn off the ignition and coast
> to the break down lane. AND, those were drum brakes, not nearly as
> good as any Audi's disc brakes.
You probably didnt read the part where it seemed like brake boost
vacuum was lost or reduced before it accelerated. That does increase
pedal effort needed. I am NOT claiming that brakes failed to stop the
car, they DID stop it. I think the vacuum loss or decrease is somehow
related to the uncommanded rapid accel. I AGREE with you that the Audi
brakes can and do eventually stop the car even with a redlined motor.
All it takes is a strong and continuous application.
In the old Audi 5000 cases that got all the news the vast majority of
the cases were as follows (from a news article):
"The Audi story is by now, dismally familiar. "Sudden acceleration"
accidents occurred when the transmission was shifted out of "park."
The driver always insisted he was standing on the brake, but after the
crash the brakes always worked perfectly. A disproportionate number of
accidents involved drivers new to the vehicle. When an idiotproof
shift was installed so that a driver could not shift out of park if
his foot was on the accelerator, reports of sudden acceleration
plummeted."
My experience and the experience of several other 92 100S owners
reported on the NHSTA site was not like this. It was uncommanded
sudden acceleration while underway. I always thought the Audi 5000
claims were driver error, but believe me , my experience and the
experience of several other owners as reported to NHSTA is really
different and far less likely to involve a driver jamming hard on the
gas pedal thinking it is the brake pedal. No shifting from park to D.
I was a huge skeptic so I know where you are coming from. This is a
real problem and not lawyer driven or driver error. I am not claiming
that the brakes failed to stop the car.