rutman22

Deanna....
i by no means, wanted to imply that paralegals dont have the necessary legal traning... nor that they arent good.
my problem is with X-coppers and Pointts... as they claim to be "LAWYERS" and rather than actually work for you, they provide false promises, dont show up in court when promised, and if they do show up in court, they dont do the required, i.e getting the officers notes, and any other evidence.. they simply wait to see the prosecutor and ask to reduce the fine/points...
im pretty sure that, that isnt what people are paying them for.

sorry 4 the confusion.

jefferson88

I've studied Canadian law and specifically Provincial offences acts which are all available online if any of you have tickets and want to figure out a defence. The HTA is the most basic and uncomplex law we have in Ontario. There is no "loophole", in fact, radar or police use of radar is not even mentioned in the HTA other than photo radar and radar detectors. Someone is misleading you or you are mixing the officers ability to stop a vehicle and being idientifiable (aka not in his/her personal vehicle in civies driving home). As photo radar doesn't even have an officer as part of the mix how would it even be legal ( and it still is, just not used anymore, before anyone claims its not). An officer can stop a car on foot without a cruiser anytime. Probably 80-90% of speed traps have officers on foot with the cruisers out of sight.

As for not speeding, I am sure 99% of the population speeds at any given point. If its done safely in none peak times on vacant roads you will unlikely ever be bothered. When its done wrecklessly through traffic or suburban roads or school zones, you will probably get hammered. all I meant was, If you don't want to get any speeding tickets don't speed, otherwise don't complain if you risk it and get caught. You'll see in every major accident where someone dies that speed is a factor... I know I don't want a knock at my door because one of my family members have been smashed to bits in a sensless crash and, that said, I also don't want to be the person that kills one of yours. If you want to go all out hit up a track, there are enough track days each weekend.

25orsix24

I read the thread and smile...
COPs, more so the Ontario ones, having a GOD-like complex?! Yes they do.
Having lived and driven in Ontario for many years until April 2008 I have many stories to tell, but what's the point?

COPs are people too... they do not work in a hair salon or at Yak-Yaks! They see death, blood and gore... they deal with the "bottom of the barrel" stuff. And they will be unfair and once in a while fling a ticket in the face of a motorist (thread above), or call 7 cruiser to harass a bunch of youngster chilling in their parents' SUVs. I do not condon it, nor find it even passable... but as one COP put it to me one day when I called them out in an altercation: he just came from an accident where someone was killed, and my problem was not that important to him anymore!

Another thing: if someone speeds, or drives aggressively, disrespects the officer or just acts superior the COP might react, so do not be surprised at the results!

And me too I got stopped and given 3 tickets for driving a brand new Camaro (yes, I am of that vintage) on DVP... they followed me all the way into downtown before they hit the lights!

Flip-side: I was speeding on a dark country road going to Port Elgin: I came around the bend at 120K and when the COP (OPP) hit the lights I stopped before he even put it in drive! He gave me a reduced ticket (no points) and appologised for having to do his duty... he also advised me that there were a couple of more speed-traps up ahead!

Conclusion: do not ****-off the surgeon who has your beating heart in his hands!
...and COPs have guns!!!

deanna_s4

Oh I totally agree if you **** off a cop you get what's coming to you - but i think that goes for anything in life.
And of course driving recklessly through school zones and residential areas is retarded - but we were talking about speeding in a general context.

I'm talking about instances where like one time I had a rental Lincoln Navigator and i was in a Timmy's parking lot (not even in the truck) and some young cop starts asking me for my license and insurance and what not. Then starts talking to me like I'm some criminal. I don't appreciate that - I was in a parking lot with a bunch of people drinking coffee. I wasn't even driving and i certainly don't look like some escaped prisoner. What was the point in that? It's not even like he could have come up with some lame excuse of me matching a description of some earlier crime - I'm a little Italian girl and I LOOK LIKE I'M 16!! lol
That crap pisses me off because I have no patience for ignorance at any given time - especially if I feel like you're wasting my time.

And rutman - thank you for clarifying. I didn't know they advertised themselves in that way - and for that then yes I would be a bit peeved as well.

sakimano

haha...bold claim. Actually #1 is alcohol...about 40% of fatalities are alcohol related. Speed is a factor in 30% of fatalities, give or take. So many people speed that when a fatality happens, its easy to point to speeding (its likely one of the cars was above the limit). Not necessarily is speed the cause of the fatality, nor is it necessarily the case that the fatality wouldn't happen if both cars were at the limit. Speed limits in the US have moved from 55mph to 75-80mph in most states, however fatalities have fallen consistently. Is everyone going 55 still? nope...80mph is standard highway cruising speed in the US.

funny, since the 50kmh+ witch-hunt law has come into effect, traffic fatalities in Ontario are down this summer vs. last. Fantino was speaking on tv a couple weeks ago and giving full credit to the new law.

What he didn't mention was that miles driven by Ontarians are down dramatically vs last year. Horrendous weather (near record snowfalls and the rainiest summer on record) and near doubled gas prices are the 2 main reasons for the lower volumes. Those lower volumes are more likely the reason for the reduction in fatalities. Further when you consider how rare traffic fatalities are (200 - 300 per year vs. 10 million Ontarians) you can see that statistically speaking it'd be very easy to see a variance in the numbers...up or down...just by chance alone. Further still, there has been a trend of falling fatality numbers here in Ontario over the past decade, just as we saw in the US.

Fantino is on a slippery slope there. The murder rate in Toronto is also down vs. 2007...shall we credit that to the speeding law too? Politicians have been making claims like these and taking credit for falling road fatalities for years. BC and Ontario saw it with photo radar in the 90s...both governments proudly stood on their statistical soap boxes when fatalities dropped during the photo radar regimes. The falling fatality rates, when more closely examined, were more to do with load factors, safer cars, air-bag introductions etc than anything to do with photo radar. Photo radar offered no discernable reduction in road fatalities in BC and Ontario, once proper analysis was conducted. Let's wait to do similar analysis of the 50+ law before we pronounce it our savior, Julian.

deanna_s4

^ I completely agree with you sakimano!

I think saying that most fatalities on the road are caused by speeding is ridiculous.
There are so many factors to traffic accidents - look at all the accidents in Toronto. You can't even begin to tell me that speed was a factor - we have no room to speed! lol
How about when cops said that the main reason why we were having so many accidents was because of teenage G2 drivers that were "distracted" while driving. So what did they do? They changed the law to say that a teenage G2 driver can't have more than one passenger in the car at the time.
Recently I also heard that Ontario is planning on limited the amount of passengers every driver can have. Again, because of distractions. So they let all of this slip under the radar while the go on and on and on about "street racing" and every time some guy gets into an accident who is 16 - 25, it was street racing! (even if there was only one car involved) and how the evils of street racers speeding down highways are the cause of all accidents and fatalities.
That's what happens when you let the media dictate to you how the world should work. A tuner car gets into an accident - street racing! Are they giving the public any proof that they were speeding? No. The public has to depend on what the media is saying and that's it.

And drinking and driving - if someone begins to tell me that fatalities caused by "speeding" exceed the amount caused by drinking and driving...that's ridiculous. Even if a drunk driver was speeding - it was ALCOHOL that was the factor, no matter what!

jefferson88

From Stats Canada... and the reason young people need more monitoring and stricter rules for driving.

and just to add, common sense will tell you that a car travelling 50kmh is not going to crumple like one going 130kmh, there by less likely to cause injury or death.

To call a 50kmh Over law a witch hunt is ridiculous... to be driving that far over the speed limit is a blatant disregard for the laws and for the safety of everyone. Anyone speeding at that level should lose there privileges for a week no question.

sakimano

yes it's a witch hunt.

if you're such an astute legal beagle, I think you should think about the following...do you believe in the premise that our legal system considers an individual 'innocent until proven guilty'?

if you do, then why do you support a law that does the opposite...presumes your guilt at the side of the road, and imposes penalties immediately. The new law gives the power to the police to

a) impound your car for one week, costing you hundreds in rental fees/taxi fare
b) charge impound fees when you get your car back...again a couple hundred bucks

If you have your day in court, and are not proven guilty, you DO NOT get those expenses reimbursed. Thus the whole process is unjust. Do we have to sue the police services now to get our $500 back?

I agree speeding at 50 over doesn't make you an angel, but I also believe in due process, as well as NOT giving too many liberties with our rights and freedoms. The police do a great job of law enforcement for the most part, but do we really want to give them the role of judge/jury as well? This law gives them the impunity to punish whomever they want thanks to the instant penalties to the driver. Police constables are often enraged by 'Contempt of Cop'...a situation where a civilian seemingly breaks the law in front of the officer with no regard for their authority. This could easily turn a traffic stop for an illegal left turn in front of the cop into a 50km/h over the limit ticket. Then what? Sure you'll have your day in court to fight the 6 demerit points and the $2,000+ fine, but it's already too late.

That's not right. THAT'S why I called it a witch hunt...similar to the days when laws and rights were tossed aside in the pursuit of suspected witches.

sakimano

Jeffjeff...this says NOTHING about speeding causing traffic deaths. NOTHING. This talks about inexperienced drivers having a greater likelihood of death in a car accident. Remember...you earlier claimed that almost all deaths on the road are speed related. You'll have to do much better than this!

sovereign

Not sure what you all will think of this.. however it is a petition for a change in 'street racing' law.