Hoe reliable are Audi's?
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 25, 9:42 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 25, 9:42 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 25, 9:42 pm, "dave AKA vwdoc1" <vwd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
> well I would not trade my '83 Audi 4000s 4cyl 5 speed for any other
> make/model in the same year and I prefer driving it over my '91 Passat 16V
> automatic. I don't even see too many vehicles that old with that many miles
> on it and definitely not running as well. <g>
> It has around 240K miles on it but I did install a VW GTi engine in it at
> 85K miles when I bought it and drove it home.
> It has basically been troublefree and very cheap to operate/repair but I
> have over the period of 16 years of ownership replaced headgasket, exhaust
> post-cat, radiator, timing belt, waterpump & hoses and various little things
> like the front seats and A/C components. Currently it needs a new clutch
> (slipping a little), new boots for the steering rack and of course the rust
> is starting to rear it's ugly head here in Chicago. After 24 years here
> that is considered excellent!
>
> I am currently looking for an Audi A4 (or Passat) maybe 7-8 years old with
> the 1.8t engine to "fall into my lap" lol
> I feel that it will be more expensive to maintain but I believe that they
> are well built vehicles and just need regular maintenance. Catch the little
> stuff early before they grow into big problems.
> If I find a Quattro that would even be better!
> So find a very nice well maintained Audi that you like and I think you will
> be happy. Of course please plan to budget for repairs and maintenance! All
> vehicles need attention so find one that makes you happy when you drive it!
>
After a certain age, stuff just breaks. An electric window motor
doesn't last forever. Nor a clutch, nor even a galvanized body shell.
Heck, people gripe about having to replace brake pads and rotors!!!
E.P.
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
"Ed Pirrero" <gcmschemist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
"Ed Pirrero" <gcmschemist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
"Ed Pirrero" <gcmschemist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
"Ed Pirrero" <gcmschemist@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
> On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> >
> > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
> >
> > > > > >>Hi,
> >
> > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
wondering
> > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
> >
> > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > saying
> > > > too
> > > > > > much.
> >
> > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
> >
> > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
> >
> > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > heavier.
> >
> > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > assembly.
>
> Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
failure.
>
> That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> situation.
>
> I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
defensive, I'd say. Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
the evidence backing your position.
> E.P.
>
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 26, 12:45 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 26, 12:45 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hoe reliable are Audi's?
On Feb 26, 12:45 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.
> "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1172473647.870843.275720@s48g2000cws.googlegr oups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:25 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > "Ed Pirrero" <gcmschem...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:1172464788.945066.318840@a75g2000cwd.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 25, 3:59 pm, "iws" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > > > > "Gman uk" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:54eferF203b64U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > > > > > iws wrote:
> > > > > > > <vortex.zor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:1172282244.721185.262990@m58g2000cwm.googleg roups.com...
>
> > > > > > >>Hi,
>
> > > > > > >>I was planning on getting a used Audi A4 2000 model. I was
> wondering
> > > > > > >>how reliabl the car would be?
>
> > > > > > > About as reliable as any other European car. Which frankly isn't
> > > saying
> > > > > too
> > > > > > > much.
>
> > > > > > I suspect therefore you've never owned a European car.
>
> > > > > Actually, I've owned several including two Audis.
>
> > > > I've found that well-maintained VWs and Audis are almost as reliable
> > > > as their Japanese brethren. The maintenance requirements ARE
> > > > heavier.
>
> > > Careful maintenance does little to prevent some of the more notorious
> > > problems such as pre-mature oil leaks or the poorly designed control arm
> > > assembly.
>
> > Funny thing: I've got an Avant with the 2.8, and it doesn't leak at
> > all. After 205k miles, it's been about trouble free as it can be
> > expected to be. Stuff that goes bad with age has gone bad - rubber
> > boots and vacuum lines - but that's to be expected. Oddly, every Audi
> > I've owned has been mostly trouble-free. You don't get "lucky" time
> > after time if a car maker churns out crap.
>
> > I do understand that most cars of the "bad control arm era" don't have
> > bad arms. If the design is bad, wouldn't they *all* fail?
>
> No, not at all. Unless the design problem was so egregious they failed as
> soon as they were driven off the assembly line. Most design defects are more
> subtle and may not show up for thousands of miles or only show up under
> certain driving conditions that would still be considered part of "normal"
> driving. That doesn't alter the fact that design was to blame for the
> failure.
The fact that the failures are small in number does not automatically
point to a design flaw.
> > That's the problem with generalization - it just doesn't fit every
> > situation.
>
> > I think the biggest problem with Audis is that there are owners out
> > there who don't take care of them, then blame it on Audi "design".
> > While not faultless, they're not as wretched as you imply.
>
> I did not imply they were "wretched" by any stretch of the imagination. And
> your claim that the individual owner is "the biggest problem" is just a tad
> defensive, I'd say.
Not really. People complain a lot about wear items and regular
maintenance, and then blame "design" when their deferred maintenance
comes back to bite them.
You mentioned "external oiling", and yet, the 2.8L motors I've had
have never seeped oil.
How odd.
> Look, the original O.P. asked about reliability and
> maintenance issues with a 2000 vintage A4. I own a similar vintage A4 and so
> I advised him on some of the issues encountered by myself as well as others
> on this newsgroup and in other places like Audiworld.com. If you wish to
> claim that the information I provided is false, then I invite you to produce
> the evidence backing your position.
Requesting proof of a negative? How quaint.
Your *opinion* of what is or is not a design flaw is no more provable
than disprovable. The replaceable items like brakes and timing belt?
Not only VAG vehicles require these things, so the suggestion that
somehow European autos are unique in this regard is disingenuous.
A Camry of the same vintage needs the same sorts of things.
E.P.