audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
clifto wrote:
>
> Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:
> >> "Minor Exceptions"?? 6mm spikes??? My Vette could make it up that
> >> hill with freakin' spikes!
> >
> > You forgot it was whinched up.......so yes it is a fraud... as most
> > commercials are.
>
> The article claims "back then and this time, both Audi models drove up
> the ski jump under their own power; they were not pulled." I believe it;
> I just don't see any use for being able to climb ski jumps in first gear
> with special tires.
Me neither.....do not have a crane or chopper to put me there in the
first place.....;-(
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
In article <43CE7ECE.CB10DB2D@fotograaf.com>,
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
In article <43CE7ECE.CB10DB2D@fotograaf.com>,
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
In article <43CE7ECE.CB10DB2D@fotograaf.com>,
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article <43CE1A62.92CA321E@fotograaf.com>,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...
>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
Alan Baker wrote:
>
> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
> and tell us the results...
>
Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
;-(
Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
Alan Baker wrote:
>
> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
> and tell us the results...
>
Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
;-(
Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
Alan Baker wrote:
>
> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
> and tell us the results...
>
Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
;-(
Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill
"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
news:43CF07EA.9E6292FF@fotograaf.com...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they are: http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.
And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes
