Larry Bud wrote:
>
> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>
> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.

According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
cable that pulled the car up.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

 

Larry Bud wrote:
>
> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>
> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.

According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
cable that pulled the car up.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

 

Larry Bud wrote:
>
> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>
> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.

According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
cable that pulled the car up.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

 

Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> writes in article <alangbaker-FF6B10.19584417012006@news.telus.net> dated Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:58:44 GMT:
>In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
>
>> 223rem wrote:
>> >
>> > Pooh Bear wrote:
>> > >
>> > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on driving
>> > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive achievement
>> > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with slope
>> > >>of 80 degrees,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 37.5 degrees actually.

I get arctan(.=38.66

>> > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
>> > should have been enough.
>>
>> At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
>> Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.

Even 4WD with open diffs might do that.

Suppose the wheelbase is 12' and the center of gravity is 2' from the road
surface and in the center of the wheelbase.

The 80% grade brings the rear wheels closer to the c.g. -- a ratio of
(6-2*./(6+2*., which still leaves 37% of the weight on the front wheels
and therefore 37% of the potential traction.

The answer is YES, AWD is still important at that angle, if my guesses about
the relative location of the center of gravity are right.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

 

Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> writes in article <alangbaker-FF6B10.19584417012006@news.telus.net> dated Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:58:44 GMT:
>In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
>
>> 223rem wrote:
>> >
>> > Pooh Bear wrote:
>> > >
>> > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on driving
>> > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive achievement
>> > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with slope
>> > >>of 80 degrees,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 37.5 degrees actually.

I get arctan(.=38.66

>> > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
>> > should have been enough.
>>
>> At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
>> Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.

Even 4WD with open diffs might do that.

Suppose the wheelbase is 12' and the center of gravity is 2' from the road
surface and in the center of the wheelbase.

The 80% grade brings the rear wheels closer to the c.g. -- a ratio of
(6-2*./(6+2*., which still leaves 37% of the weight on the front wheels
and therefore 37% of the potential traction.

The answer is YES, AWD is still important at that angle, if my guesses about
the relative location of the center of gravity are right.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

 

Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> writes in article <alangbaker-FF6B10.19584417012006@news.telus.net> dated Wed, 18 Jan 2006 03:58:44 GMT:
>In article <43CDB8FF.71424285@fotograaf.com>,
> Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:
>
>> 223rem wrote:
>> >
>> > Pooh Bear wrote:
>> > >
>> > > aniramca@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on driving
>> > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive achievement
>> > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with slope
>> > >>of 80 degrees,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 37.5 degrees actually.

I get arctan(.=38.66

>> > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
>> > should have been enough.
>>
>> At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
>> Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.

Even 4WD with open diffs might do that.

Suppose the wheelbase is 12' and the center of gravity is 2' from the road
surface and in the center of the wheelbase.

The 80% grade brings the rear wheels closer to the c.g. -- a ratio of
(6-2*./(6+2*., which still leaves 37% of the weight on the front wheels
and therefore 37% of the potential traction.

The answer is YES, AWD is still important at that angle, if my guesses about
the relative location of the center of gravity are right.

-- spud_demon -at- thundermaker.net
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.

 

Erik-Jan,
Actually, it had a safety line attached in case it did slip and fall off the
ramp. Similar to that used by mountain climbers - it's slack, but there as
a precaution. If it's the same as the commercial for the 1987-vintage Audi
100/5000 quattro, then you'll see the tether in the film below the
centreline of the car. It was not winched up, though, it drove up:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...8/quattro1.mpg
Now the spiked tires.....that's grip, baby! Too bad spikes are illegal here
in Canada.
BTW, the ad with the Audi climbing the Andes in Chile with no rubber on the
rims:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...726/ascent.avi
- no spikes there!
There are many other films on the Nordic Audi web site (under "Filmer") -
there's probably the test that the German TV show did on the different SUV's
climbing the ski slope. Of course, they're essentially commercials,
caricaturing the selling points of the vehicle (hence, the use of spiked
tires). In my work I've driven my quattro-equipped sedan off-road (in
fields and various construction sites), but I'd never drive off-road like
the guy in our office that owns a Jeep. Of course, some say the difference
between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive is the distance you drive in before
you're stuck.....and it holds true for our Jeep guy, who needed an excavator
to drag him out this past summer.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - never tried to climb a ski jump, no spiked tires, though
1980 Audi 5k - could negotiate the parking lot of the ski resort.
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - 36 Hp - gets stuck
contemplating climbing hills
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)


"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CE80C4.2C66A7D8@fotograaf.com...
>
>
> Larry Bud wrote:
>>
>> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
>> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
>> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
>> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
>> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>>
>> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
>> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.
>
> According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
> cable that pulled the car up.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

 

Erik-Jan,
Actually, it had a safety line attached in case it did slip and fall off the
ramp. Similar to that used by mountain climbers - it's slack, but there as
a precaution. If it's the same as the commercial for the 1987-vintage Audi
100/5000 quattro, then you'll see the tether in the film below the
centreline of the car. It was not winched up, though, it drove up:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...8/quattro1.mpg
Now the spiked tires.....that's grip, baby! Too bad spikes are illegal here
in Canada.
BTW, the ad with the Audi climbing the Andes in Chile with no rubber on the
rims:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...726/ascent.avi
- no spikes there!
There are many other films on the Nordic Audi web site (under "Filmer") -
there's probably the test that the German TV show did on the different SUV's
climbing the ski slope. Of course, they're essentially commercials,
caricaturing the selling points of the vehicle (hence, the use of spiked
tires). In my work I've driven my quattro-equipped sedan off-road (in
fields and various construction sites), but I'd never drive off-road like
the guy in our office that owns a Jeep. Of course, some say the difference
between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive is the distance you drive in before
you're stuck.....and it holds true for our Jeep guy, who needed an excavator
to drag him out this past summer.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - never tried to climb a ski jump, no spiked tires, though
1980 Audi 5k - could negotiate the parking lot of the ski resort.
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - 36 Hp - gets stuck
contemplating climbing hills
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)


"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CE80C4.2C66A7D8@fotograaf.com...
>
>
> Larry Bud wrote:
>>
>> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
>> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
>> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
>> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
>> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>>
>> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
>> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.
>
> According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
> cable that pulled the car up.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

 

Erik-Jan,
Actually, it had a safety line attached in case it did slip and fall off the
ramp. Similar to that used by mountain climbers - it's slack, but there as
a precaution. If it's the same as the commercial for the 1987-vintage Audi
100/5000 quattro, then you'll see the tether in the film below the
centreline of the car. It was not winched up, though, it drove up:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...8/quattro1.mpg
Now the spiked tires.....that's grip, baby! Too bad spikes are illegal here
in Canada.
BTW, the ad with the Audi climbing the Andes in Chile with no rubber on the
rims:
http://www.nordicaudi.com/media/film...726/ascent.avi
- no spikes there!
There are many other films on the Nordic Audi web site (under "Filmer") -
there's probably the test that the German TV show did on the different SUV's
climbing the ski slope. Of course, they're essentially commercials,
caricaturing the selling points of the vehicle (hence, the use of spiked
tires). In my work I've driven my quattro-equipped sedan off-road (in
fields and various construction sites), but I'd never drive off-road like
the guy in our office that owns a Jeep. Of course, some say the difference
between 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive is the distance you drive in before
you're stuck.....and it holds true for our Jeep guy, who needed an excavator
to drag him out this past summer.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - never tried to climb a ski jump, no spiked tires, though
1980 Audi 5k - could negotiate the parking lot of the ski resort.
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - 36 Hp - gets stuck
contemplating climbing hills
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)


"Erik-Jan Geniets" <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote in message
news:43CE80C4.2C66A7D8@fotograaf.com...
>
>
> Larry Bud wrote:
>>
>> > - On what icy slope is a car can actually stand still on without
>> > sliding down? I thought that a relatively small slope (with no friction
>> > because of ice) that a car can stand up on icy slope more than say 15
>> > to 20 degrees ( 1V to 3H to 1V to 4H). .... or is the figure even
>> > lower, say 10 degrees ... or less?
>>
>> To this point, if you note the small print in the ad, it states that a
>> safety line was used to PREVENT the car from sliding down.
>
> According to the "making of" pictures in another post it is the whinch
> cable that pulled the car up.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

 

Steve,
Nice ad, but that's just it, advertising... How many people need/have
to do that in a car? My old landie could probably do it too (slower
tho') No tires? I reckon the rim sides with the asphalt/macadam? after
having worn down in the first few metres, would be probably be more
effective than spikes. I wouldn't advocate doing this yourself, unless
you were desperate to get to the top, or if you had a spare set of
rims...

PS I live in Switzerland, 4x4 is useful!... but, braking is like any
other car... Spikes are allowed here, but you are limited to 80kmh. My
best car ever on the snow was my '69 Beetle equiped with snow tyres.

--
....tone
LR90 "Emma"
SRX6 - hibernating