Mark

Posting for a buddy folks.

His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer recommended
he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what the
problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company (reputable)
hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the front
bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the flatbed
the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing' mount
where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
nearly completely off the car.

They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount appears
to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage it to
the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a year
ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic damage to
the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required anything
related to this mount.

Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in this
manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?

Thanks for any feedback.

Mark

Dano58

On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Posting for a buddy folks.
>
> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer recommended
> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what the
> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company (reputable)
> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the front
> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the flatbed
> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing' mount
> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
> nearly completely off the car.
>
> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount appears
> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage it to
> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a year
> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic damage to
> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required anything
> related to this mount.
>
> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in this
> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>
I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it. Of
course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
not.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA

Mark

The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He did get a
Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other damage. That said, I
don't think Carfax is necessarily that all-inclusive. If someone took the
car into a lamp post and didn't want to turn it into their insurance, they
could easily take it somewhere and have it repaired without the damage ever
being reported.


"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>
>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>> recommended
>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what the
>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>> (reputable)
>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the front
>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the
>> flatbed
>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing' mount
>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
>> nearly completely off the car.
>>
>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount
>> appears
>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage it
>> to
>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a
>> year
>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic damage
>> to
>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required
>> anything
>> related to this mount.
>>
>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in this
>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>
> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it. Of
> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
> not.
>
> Dan D
> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
> Central NJ USA

rucker

I am not an expert here my any means, but for the "pull point" to be
on the bumper seems to be wrong to me. I believe that where towing is
hooked up is usually assosicated with the frame, not the bumper. My
2000 A6 had a relatively flimsly bumper, I would not want anyone to
hook up to it to tow me. Perhaps someone here knows the exactness of
this?

rucker

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:14:21 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:

>The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
>scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He did get a
>Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other damage. That said, I
>don't think Carfax is necessarily that all-inclusive. If someone took the
>car into a lamp post and didn't want to turn it into their insurance, they
>could easily take it somewhere and have it repaired without the damage ever
>being reported.
>
>
>"Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>>
>>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>>> recommended
>>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what the
>>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>>> (reputable)
>>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the front
>>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the
>>> flatbed
>>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing' mount
>>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
>>> nearly completely off the car.
>>>
>>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount
>>> appears
>>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage it
>>> to
>>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a
>>> year
>>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic damage
>>> to
>>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required
>>> anything
>>> related to this mount.
>>>
>>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in this
>>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>>
>> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
>> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
>> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it. Of
>> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
>> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
>> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
>> not.
>>
>> Dan D
>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>> Central NJ USA

TonyJ

The pull point has a plastic cover that pops off and there is a steel
loop inside (or may be in the kit to be screwed in). I could be that the
tow truck operator removed the plastic and then just hooked onto the
plastic of the bumper which would fail. Just a guess.

rucker wrote:
> I am not an expert here my any means, but for the "pull point" to be
> on the bumper seems to be wrong to me. I believe that where towing is
> hooked up is usually assosicated with the frame, not the bumper. My
> 2000 A6 had a relatively flimsly bumper, I would not want anyone to
> hook up to it to tow me. Perhaps someone here knows the exactness of
> this?
>
> rucker
>
> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:14:21 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>> The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
>> scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He did get a
>> Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other damage. That said, I
>> don't think Carfax is necessarily that all-inclusive. If someone took the
>> car into a lamp post and didn't want to turn it into their insurance, they
>> could easily take it somewhere and have it repaired without the damage ever
>> being reported.
>>
>>
>> "Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>>>
>>>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>>>> recommended
>>>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what the
>>>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>>>> (reputable)
>>>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the front
>>>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the
>>>> flatbed
>>>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing' mount
>>>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
>>>> nearly completely off the car.
>>>>
>>>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount
>>>> appears
>>>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage it
>>>> to
>>>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a
>>>> year
>>>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic damage
>>>> to
>>>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required
>>>> anything
>>>> related to this mount.
>>>>
>>>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in this
>>>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
>>> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
>>> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it. Of
>>> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
>>> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
>>> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
>>> not.
>>>
>>> Dan D
>>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>>> Central NJ USA
>>>

Mark

Yes, the hook is in the kit with the jack and tire wrench. The tow truck
driver performed the operation exactly as it was suppose to be done. The
bumper did not separated from the support member, the support member pulled
apart. It is a shock-absorbing piece, I presume designed to take the shock
of an impact. But I'd assume Audi intended for it to be pulled on since
that's where they have designed the hook to be placed.


"TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
news:13t4duhptbhpfa7@corp.supernews.com...
> The pull point has a plastic cover that pops off and there is a steel loop
> inside (or may be in the kit to be screwed in). I could be that the tow
> truck operator removed the plastic and then just hooked onto the plastic
> of the bumper which would fail. Just a guess.
>
> rucker wrote:
>> I am not an expert here my any means, but for the "pull point" to be
>> on the bumper seems to be wrong to me. I believe that where towing is
>> hooked up is usually assosicated with the frame, not the bumper. My
>> 2000 A6 had a relatively flimsly bumper, I would not want anyone to
>> hook up to it to tow me. Perhaps someone here knows the exactness of
>> this?
>>
>> rucker
>>
>> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:14:21 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
>>> scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He did get
>>> a Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other damage. That
>>> said, I don't think Carfax is necessarily that all-inclusive. If
>>> someone took the car into a lamp post and didn't want to turn it into
>>> their insurance, they could easily take it somewhere and have it
>>> repaired without the damage ever being reported.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>>>>
>>>>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>>>>> recommended
>>>>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what
>>>>> the
>>>>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>>>>> (reputable)
>>>>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the
>>>>> front
>>>>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the
>>>>> flatbed
>>>>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing'
>>>>> mount
>>>>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the bumper
>>>>> nearly completely off the car.
>>>>>
>>>>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount
>>>>> appears
>>>>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage
>>>>> it to
>>>>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer a
>>>>> year
>>>>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic
>>>>> damage to
>>>>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required
>>>>> anything
>>>>> related to this mount.
>>>>>
>>>>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in
>>>>> this
>>>>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
>>>> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
>>>> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it. Of
>>>> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
>>>> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
>>>> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>> Dan D
>>>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>>>> Central NJ USA

TonyJ

The shock tube is mounted on the front of one of the frame tubes with
three good sized bolts. The only way that this could pull off is if the
bolts were missing or very severely damaged. There must have been an
accident that was repaired at a shop and they forgot to install or
tighten the bolts before mounting the bumper.

Mark wrote:
> Yes, the hook is in the kit with the jack and tire wrench. The tow
> truck driver performed the operation exactly as it was suppose to be
> done. The bumper did not separated from the support member, the
> support member pulled apart. It is a shock-absorbing piece, I presume
> designed to take the shock of an impact. But I'd assume Audi intended
> for it to be pulled on since that's where they have designed the hook
> to be placed.
>
>
> "TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
> news:13t4duhptbhpfa7@corp.supernews.com...
>> The pull point has a plastic cover that pops off and there is a steel
>> loop inside (or may be in the kit to be screwed in). I could be that
>> the tow truck operator removed the plastic and then just hooked onto
>> the plastic of the bumper which would fail. Just a guess.
>>
>> rucker wrote:
>>> I am not an expert here my any means, but for the "pull point" to be
>>> on the bumper seems to be wrong to me. I believe that where towing is
>>> hooked up is usually assosicated with the frame, not the bumper. My
>>> 2000 A6 had a relatively flimsly bumper, I would not want anyone to
>>> hook up to it to tow me. Perhaps someone here knows the exactness of
>>> this?
>>>
>>> rucker
>>>
>>> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:14:21 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
>>>> scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He
>>>> did get a Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other
>>>> damage. That said, I don't think Carfax is necessarily that
>>>> all-inclusive. If someone took the car into a lamp post and didn't
>>>> want to turn it into their insurance, they could easily take it
>>>> somewhere and have it repaired without the damage ever being reported.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>>>>>> recommended
>>>>>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure
>>>>>> what the
>>>>>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>>>>>> (reputable)
>>>>>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in
>>>>>> the front
>>>>>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto
>>>>>> the flatbed
>>>>>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock
>>>>>> absorbing' mount
>>>>>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the
>>>>>> bumper
>>>>>> nearly completely off the car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the
>>>>>> mount appears
>>>>>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that
>>>>>> damage it to
>>>>>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi
>>>>>> dealer a year
>>>>>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some
>>>>>> cosmetic damage to
>>>>>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have
>>>>>> required anything
>>>>>> related to this mount.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart
>>>>>> in this
>>>>>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
>>>>> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
>>>>> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with
>>>>> it. Of
>>>>> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
>>>>> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
>>>>> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan D
>>>>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>>>>> Central NJ USA
>

Mark

Reading comprehension seems to be an issue here - it didn't pull off the
frame - it separated . The part that bolts to the frame was till bolted to
the frame. The part that bolts to the bumper was still bolted to the
bumper. Part A came apart from Part B - the entire failure was in the shock
tube.
No indications either by visual inspection of the car or a Carfax report
that the car had been in an accident.



"TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
news:13t5lmrk6717d88@corp.supernews.com...
> The shock tube is mounted on the front of one of the frame tubes with
> three good sized bolts. The only way that this could pull off is if the
> bolts were missing or very severely damaged. There must have been an
> accident that was repaired at a shop and they forgot to install or tighten
> the bolts before mounting the bumper.
>
> Mark wrote:
>> Yes, the hook is in the kit with the jack and tire wrench. The tow truck
>> driver performed the operation exactly as it was suppose to be done. The
>> bumper did not separated from the support member, the support member
>> pulled apart. It is a shock-absorbing piece, I presume designed to take
>> the shock of an impact. But I'd assume Audi intended for it to be pulled
>> on since that's where they have designed the hook to be placed.
>>
>>
>> "TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
>> news:13t4duhptbhpfa7@corp.supernews.com...
>>> The pull point has a plastic cover that pops off and there is a steel
>>> loop inside (or may be in the kit to be screwed in). I could be that the
>>> tow truck operator removed the plastic and then just hooked onto the
>>> plastic of the bumper which would fail. Just a guess.
>>>
>>> rucker wrote:
>>>> I am not an expert here my any means, but for the "pull point" to be
>>>> on the bumper seems to be wrong to me. I believe that where towing is
>>>> hooked up is usually assosicated with the frame, not the bumper. My
>>>> 2000 A6 had a relatively flimsly bumper, I would not want anyone to
>>>> hook up to it to tow me. Perhaps someone here knows the exactness of
>>>> this?
>>>>
>>>> rucker
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 18:14:21 -0500, "Mark" <mwl@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The damage was very minor (hence the term cosmetic) - shopping cart
>>>>> scratch - nothing that did any structural damage to the car. He did
>>>>> get a Carfax that showed no report of any wrecks of other damage.
>>>>> That said, I don't think Carfax is necessarily that all-inclusive. If
>>>>> someone took the car into a lamp post and didn't want to turn it into
>>>>> their insurance, they could easily take it somewhere and have it
>>>>> repaired without the damage ever being reported.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Dano58" <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:0782a426-5c21-4ccd-a7fb-1987c8b30d9f@p73g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 5, 6:37 pm, "Mark" <m...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Posting for a buddy folks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His son has a 2004 Audi that had a mechanical issue. The dealer
>>>>>>> recommended
>>>>>>> he have it towed in for repair and not drive it. I'm not sure what
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> problem was, but that's not the issue here. The towing company
>>>>>>> (reputable)
>>>>>>> hooked onto the car as prescribed using the 'pull point' (?) in the
>>>>>>> front
>>>>>>> bumper as required per Audi. As they began to pull the car onto the
>>>>>>> flatbed
>>>>>>> the entire front bumper pulled off the car! The 'shock absorbing'
>>>>>>> mount
>>>>>>> where the pull bolt attaches came completely apart, yanking the
>>>>>>> bumper
>>>>>>> nearly completely off the car.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They eventually got it into the shop, and the dealer says the mount
>>>>>>> appears
>>>>>>> to have been beat with a hammer at some point and things that damage
>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>> the point it failed. He'd bought the car used from the Audi dealer
>>>>>>> a year
>>>>>>> ago, supposedly 'certified' and a few months ago had some cosmetic
>>>>>>> damage to
>>>>>>> the bumper skin repaired - not something that should have required
>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>> related to this mount.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Several Audi-savvy people say they've never seen one pull apart in
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> manner. Question to the group is has anyone had such a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had to have my car flat-bedded (knock wood) so I haven't
>>>>>> personaly experienced this issue. But the fact that some 'cosmetic
>>>>>> work' was done to the bumper suggests that he had an issue with it.
>>>>>> Of
>>>>>> course, the dealer is going to look for a reason why it's someone
>>>>>> else's problem. Did your son get a Carfax report on the car before he
>>>>>> bought it? That could potentially indicate whether it had been hit or
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan D
>>>>>> '04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
>>>>>> Central NJ USA
>>

Matt E

The thing that gets my attention is the fact that
you bought the car as a 'certified' car from the dealer.

Since the hookup point was reportedly hammered or bent, it would
seem you might have some recourse with the dealer you bought
the car from - they should pay for at least 1/2 of the repair or
provide parts free of charge.

A nicely written letter to the dealership with a CC to Audi of America
may get their attention if they do not want to play nice.

Good luck!

matt E