GRR speeding ticket :(
10-10-2008, 02:26 PM
#11
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 47
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
sakimano - how about listening to someone who sold car insurance for 3 years (me)?
EVERY moving violation gets added to your Motor Vehicle Report (Driver's Licence), regardless of how bad it is. some insurance companies won't charge for the ticket if it's below 10km/h, but EVERY ticket gets shown to them. depending on the rating system for the insurer, your 10km/h-over ticket may or may not affect your rates on renewal (they aren't allowed to change the rates mid-term unless there is a material change in risk, like you move or change the car).
the cops generally have NO CLUE about insurance, especially in Ontario. here's an example:
you get t-boned in an intersection while making a left - cop shows up, writes the other guy a ticket for running the light, tells you you're not at fault since the other guy ran the light. you call your insurance company to report it, they say you're at fault. any time you're making a left, if you're in an accident, you're at fault from an insurance perspective.
EVERY moving violation gets added to your Motor Vehicle Report (Driver's Licence), regardless of how bad it is. some insurance companies won't charge for the ticket if it's below 10km/h, but EVERY ticket gets shown to them. depending on the rating system for the insurer, your 10km/h-over ticket may or may not affect your rates on renewal (they aren't allowed to change the rates mid-term unless there is a material change in risk, like you move or change the car).
the cops generally have NO CLUE about insurance, especially in Ontario. here's an example:
you get t-boned in an intersection while making a left - cop shows up, writes the other guy a ticket for running the light, tells you you're not at fault since the other guy ran the light. you call your insurance company to report it, they say you're at fault. any time you're making a left, if you're in an accident, you're at fault from an insurance perspective.
Been through that too. In the end, it's about insurance companies saving cost by resolving disputes quickly, so they administer very blanket solutions "I you are turning, you are always at fault" In the end we get screwed and the A-hole running the light get's off. "
Oh and the insurance rate hike just because you moved is the biggest BS as well. Just because someone moves closer to the city their rate automatically gets hiked. What about the fact that, that person doesn't drive to work because they are in the city vs someone out in the burbs driving 60km everyday.
Ok I'll stop ranting now.
10-10-2008, 02:29 PM
#12
Audi Forum - Posts like an S6
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oakville
Posts: 1,155
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
Oh yes...insurance salesmen are always reliable sources of information.
I never disputed the tickets being on my driving record...I said that while they are convictions, they don't show up on your insurance, and in my experience don't impact your rates. I guess you insurance salesmen don't like to read full threads. That's what the OP was asking. I was told this by a cop (2x, 2 cops actually) and didn't believe them either time. Then, when I reviewed my insurance after each conviction, they never showed up on the # of convictions, and my rates were not moved as a result of those convictions on renewals.
p.s. shows what you know about traffic law...in that t-bone in the intersection during red-light-run you described, the individual turning left is ALWAYS at fault. They're both in the intersection at the same time, and therefore both running a red light. The right of way goes to the through traffic, not the turner. Cops would never give that guy a red light ticket unless there was some very strange reason for them to look past the basic principles of traffic flow...right of way.
For example,
I never disputed the tickets being on my driving record...I said that while they are convictions, they don't show up on your insurance, and in my experience don't impact your rates. I guess you insurance salesmen don't like to read full threads. That's what the OP was asking. I was told this by a cop (2x, 2 cops actually) and didn't believe them either time. Then, when I reviewed my insurance after each conviction, they never showed up on the # of convictions, and my rates were not moved as a result of those convictions on renewals.
p.s. shows what you know about traffic law...in that t-bone in the intersection during red-light-run you described, the individual turning left is ALWAYS at fault. They're both in the intersection at the same time, and therefore both running a red light. The right of way goes to the through traffic, not the turner. Cops would never give that guy a red light ticket unless there was some very strange reason for them to look past the basic principles of traffic flow...right of way.
For example,
sakimano - how about listening to someone who sold car insurance for 3 years (me)?
EVERY moving violation gets added to your Motor Vehicle Report (Driver's Licence), regardless of how bad it is. some insurance companies won't charge for the ticket if it's below 10km/h, but EVERY ticket gets shown to them. depending on the rating system for the insurer, your 10km/h-over ticket may or may not affect your rates on renewal (they aren't allowed to change the rates mid-term unless there is a material change in risk, like you move or change the car).
the cops generally have NO CLUE about insurance, especially in Ontario. here's an example:
you get t-boned in an intersection while making a left - cop shows up, writes the other guy a ticket for running the light, tells you you're not at fault since the other guy ran the light. you call your insurance company to report it, they say you're at fault. any time you're making a left, if you're in an accident, you're at fault from an insurance perspective.
EVERY moving violation gets added to your Motor Vehicle Report (Driver's Licence), regardless of how bad it is. some insurance companies won't charge for the ticket if it's below 10km/h, but EVERY ticket gets shown to them. depending on the rating system for the insurer, your 10km/h-over ticket may or may not affect your rates on renewal (they aren't allowed to change the rates mid-term unless there is a material change in risk, like you move or change the car).
the cops generally have NO CLUE about insurance, especially in Ontario. here's an example:
you get t-boned in an intersection while making a left - cop shows up, writes the other guy a ticket for running the light, tells you you're not at fault since the other guy ran the light. you call your insurance company to report it, they say you're at fault. any time you're making a left, if you're in an accident, you're at fault from an insurance perspective.
Last edited by sakimano; 10-10-2008 at 08:33 PM.
10-10-2008, 08:25 PM
#14
Audi Forum - Posts like an S6
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oakville
Posts: 1,155
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
so eat what? good one. a quick witted study are you my B6 friend. dummy (sic) Brilliant!
Now I assume you're taking the self proclaimed insurance salesman's claim? the same insurance salesmen who blew the story about the way police and insurers tend to handle red light accidents with left turners? hmmm...you've made a poor decision in hitching your cart to his horse.
again, back to my original comments, i never professed to answer for all insurance companies...I merely advised the OP of my experience with minor speeding tickets, based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (rather than theories of random posters with no actual data to support their claims). If you're telling me what I actually experienced never happened, well you won't convince me.
In any event, good luck with your wife/house/car. I hope you and the insurance salesman live happily ever after.
Now I assume you're taking the self proclaimed insurance salesman's claim? the same insurance salesmen who blew the story about the way police and insurers tend to handle red light accidents with left turners? hmmm...you've made a poor decision in hitching your cart to his horse.
again, back to my original comments, i never professed to answer for all insurance companies...I merely advised the OP of my experience with minor speeding tickets, based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (rather than theories of random posters with no actual data to support their claims). If you're telling me what I actually experienced never happened, well you won't convince me.
In any event, good luck with your wife/house/car. I hope you and the insurance salesman live happily ever after.
Last edited by sakimano; 10-10-2008 at 08:42 PM.
10-10-2008, 11:01 PM
#15
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 57
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
ok, let's review here:
you: no experience in insurance guidelines
me: 3 years experience in a licensed insurance sales/service position.
yet you still seem to think that i'm wrong, because 2 cops (who know about traffic law and not insurance fault determination rules) told you so.
i don't know about traffic law? please explain to me how you're running a red if you're in the intersection, waiting to make your left and you get t-boned by someone going perpendicular to you (how else do you get t-boned?) do i really need to draw you a diagram?
speaking of reading full posts, you obviously didn't read mine:
some insurance companies waive any tickets lower than 10km over.
also, your insurance company doesn't check your MVR every time your policy renews - they have to pay $10 for every one they request, and insurers are notoriously cheap.
either one of those is the reason your ticket didn't show up on your policy.
as for "the OP's question":
you said it doesn't. i'm telling you it does. i have experience in reviewing people's MVRs for insurance purposes. you do not.
Rocky, believe whomever you want on this one.
you: no experience in insurance guidelines
me: 3 years experience in a licensed insurance sales/service position.
yet you still seem to think that i'm wrong, because 2 cops (who know about traffic law and not insurance fault determination rules) told you so.
i don't know about traffic law? please explain to me how you're running a red if you're in the intersection, waiting to make your left and you get t-boned by someone going perpendicular to you (how else do you get t-boned?) do i really need to draw you a diagram?
speaking of reading full posts, you obviously didn't read mine:
depending on the rating system for the insurer, your 10km/h-over ticket may or may not affect your rates on renewal
also, your insurance company doesn't check your MVR every time your policy renews - they have to pay $10 for every one they request, and insurers are notoriously cheap.
either one of those is the reason your ticket didn't show up on your policy.
as for "the OP's question":
are you sure that under 10km/h over the speed limit does not get reported to insurance?
Rocky, believe whomever you want on this one.
10-10-2008, 11:03 PM
#16
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 57
10-11-2008, 11:17 PM
#18
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 57
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
tickets are only rateable for 3 years from the conviction date (most people think it's the date you got the ticket) - BUT, if you get a ticket and fight it, and your policy renews before your court date, they can still rate for it - which is why fighting a ticket may not end up being advantageous. most insurers won't rerate a policy mid-term to reflect updated MVR data (tickets dropping off), unless there's another material change (add a driver/car, move, etc)...
10-11-2008, 11:40 PM
#19
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Etobicoke
Posts: 57
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
Oh and the insurance rate hike just because you moved is the biggest BS as well. Just because someone moves closer to the city their rate automatically gets hiked. What about the fact that, that person doesn't drive to work because they are in the city vs someone out in the burbs driving 60km everyday.
Ok I'll stop ranting now.
insurers have actuaries who review claims data and figure out the average payout per claim based on each postal code (for territory ratings), each year/make/model car, class of driver (combination of age and experience), and vehicle use (pleasure/commute/business).
higher premiums are not necessarily tied to proximity to the city centre - for example, if you live in rosedale, you'll pay more than someone who lives in thornhill - but if you move to scarborough or markham you'll pay more, because there are more claims for people living in those areas. just like if you drive a mid/late 90's buick century, you'll pay less than someone driving a honda civic - more and greater payouts are made in claims filed by civic drivers than century drivers (the reason for this, is because there are more civic's on the road so there are more accidents involving civics, more thefts, and because they're not typically driven by octogenarians going 40 in a 60, there are more likely to be injuries in the event of an accident).
also, when you change the use of your car (from commute to pleasure use), the rate changes too - however, some insurers will consider short commutes (under 3 km, for example) to be pleasure use, so there would be no change there.
so, in your example (city-dweller, pleasure use vs. suburb-dweller, long commute), it's entirely possible that the latter would pay significantly more for their insurance.
hope that helps calm the rage...
10-14-2008, 08:17 AM
#20
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 47
Re: GRR speeding ticket :(
that's not entirely true.
insurers have actuaries who review claims data and figure out the average payout per claim based on each postal code (for territory ratings), each year/make/model car, class of driver (combination of age and experience), and vehicle use (pleasure/commute/business).
insurers have actuaries who review claims data and figure out the average payout per claim based on each postal code (for territory ratings), each year/make/model car, class of driver (combination of age and experience), and vehicle use (pleasure/commute/business).
I understand that, I just disagree with the logic. I was with TD Monex.
I get notice of a $500 hike becaue I live in the city, yet I don't drive to work. While a friend of mine (same insurance company) drives 60km a day communting from Markham, yet he gets a reduction. Forget the actuary studies, conventional wisedom should dictate that he should be more at risk because he's on the road more, and at higher risk times.
In the end it's about money. What brings in more money for insurance companies, raising the rate of a M area code with higher density or an L postal with less.
Another thing I absolutly hate about insurance companies is the difference in rates not just between companies but within themselves. How can there be a gap of hundreds of dollars between one company to the next.
Try this if you don't believe me. Pretend you are a new client, and call your current insurance company and get a quote using a diffrent address in your same street. I garantee you that you will get a lower rate than you currently have.
Last edited by Freewilly; 10-14-2008 at 08:31 AM.
