Gene

I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
ago and I haven't been able
to diagnose this problem yet.

The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The valves
seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticable above
60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.

If I crest a hill, just as the engine load changes from pulling up the
hill to coasting down the other side the pinging appears.

If "crest" a dip, same deal. As I go from coasting to pulling up the next
hill the pinging appears.


Are the knock sensors suppose to alert the CPU to this and correct it?
Could it be a bad knock sensor?... or would it be worse?

Any suggestions?


Gene

daytripper

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:57:27 GMT, "Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
>ago and I haven't been able
>to diagnose this problem yet.
>
> The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The valves
>seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
>throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticable above
>60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
>an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
>worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
>throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
>less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
>pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
>fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
>always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
>whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.
>
> If I crest a hill, just as the engine load changes from pulling up the
>hill to coasting down the other side the pinging appears.
>
> If "crest" a dip, same deal. As I go from coasting to pulling up the next
>hill the pinging appears.
> Are the knock sensors suppose to alert the CPU to this and correct it?
>Could it be a bad knock sensor?... or would it be worse?
>
> Any suggestions?

Are you that sure it's valves? Because your symptoms sound suspiciously
"on-boost" - and if the turbo is knackered maybe you're just hearing it's
death rattle...

TonyJ

Some of the V6s had problems with the timing belt tensioners. Not sure
if yours is one of them but this causes rattling sounds.

Tony
'91 100Q 5spd
Son's 98 2.8 30V A4

Gene wrote:

> I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
> ago and I haven't been able
> to diagnose this problem yet.
>
> The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The valves
> seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
> throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticeable above
> 60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
> an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
> worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
> throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
> less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
> pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
> fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
> always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
> whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.
>
> If I crest a hill, just as the engine load changes from pulling up the
> hill to coasting down the other side the pinging appears.
>
> If "crest" a dip, same deal. As I go from coasting to pulling up the next
> hill the pinging appears.
>
>
> Are the knock sensors suppose to alert the CPU to this and correct it?
> Could it be a bad knock sensor?... or would it be worse?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Gene
>
>

Peter Bell

In message <8t51pv887td1h79tp2r7b7idk4k1mco9kn@4ax.com>
daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:57:27 GMT, "Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6.

[Snip]

> Are you that sure it's valves? Because your symptoms sound suspiciously
> "on-boost" - and if the turbo is knackered maybe you're just hearing it's
> death rattle...

Err... what turbo?

--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')

Gene

Yea. Trust me, there's no turbo.




"Peter Bell" <peter@invalid.org.uk> wrote in message
news:684468434c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> In message <8t51pv887td1h79tp2r7b7idk4k1mco9kn@4ax.com>
> daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:57:27 GMT, "Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6.
>
> [Snip]
>
> > Are you that sure it's valves? Because your symptoms sound suspiciously
> > "on-boost" - and if the turbo is knackered maybe you're just hearing
it's
> > death rattle...
>
> Err... what turbo?
>
> --
> Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with
'bellfamily')

daytripper

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:43:32 +0100, Peter Bell <peter@invalid.org.uk> wrote:

>In message <8t51pv887td1h79tp2r7b7idk4k1mco9kn@4ax.com>
> daytripper <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:57:27 GMT, "Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6.
>
> [Snip]
>
>> Are you that sure it's valves? Because your symptoms sound suspiciously
>> "on-boost" - and if the turbo is knackered maybe you're just hearing it's
>> death rattle...
>
>Err... what turbo?

Sorry, totally missed it...

JP Roberts

Make sure you're using high-Octane gas.

JP
"Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:Xd0kb.863$Uz6.206@newsread1.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
> I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
> ago and I haven't been able
> to diagnose this problem yet.
>
> The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The
valves
> seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
> throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticable
above
> 60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
> an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
> worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
> throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
> less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
> pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
> fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
> always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
> whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.
>
> If I crest a hill, just as the engine load changes from pulling up the
> hill to coasting down the other side the pinging appears.
>
> If "crest" a dip, same deal. As I go from coasting to pulling up the
next
> hill the pinging appears.
>
>
> Are the knock sensors suppose to alert the CPU to this and correct it?
> Could it be a bad knock sensor?... or would it be worse?
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> Gene
>
>

Chris Mauritz

Or alternatively, retard the timing a degree or two. Though that will
have performance consequences.

Cheers,

C

JP Roberts wrote:

> Make sure you're using high-Octane gas.
>
> JP
> "Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
> news:Xd0kb.863$Uz6.206@newsread1.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
>
>> I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
>>ago and I haven't been able
>>to diagnose this problem yet.
>>
>> The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The
>
> valves
>
>>seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
>>throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticable
>
> above
>
>>60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
>>an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
>>worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
>>throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
>>less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
>>pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
>>fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
>>always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
>>whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.

C.R. Krieger

"Gene" <spam_pit@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<Xd0kb.863$Uz6.206@newsread1.news.atl.earthli nk.net>...
> I have 1995 Audi 90 with the 12V V6. I bought the car used 4 years
> ago and I haven't been able to diagnose this problem yet.
>
> The problem appears mostly in highway driving on level road. The valves
> seem to be very happy to just clatter and ping away at just the exact
> throttle required to just maintain my speed. It seems most noticable above
> 60mph and seems worse at higher speeds. Just a hint more throttle to give
> an almost inperceivable acceleration and it very quickly and sharply get
> worse and then stops pinging.....until the car speed catches up with the
> throttle again and guess what, pinging. The same happens with just a hint
> less throttle. Again, with an almost inpercievable decelleration and the
> pinging stops....until the car slows to the throttle. This is all within
> fractions of 1mph. But, it's loud enough and disturbing enough that I'm
> always having to adjust the throttle away from a constant speed, just a
> whisper, to keep the valves from clattering away.
>
> Any suggestions?

Yup. You're hearing something else. The earliest Audis to actually
have any *power* (and yours is in this vintage - the late '80s turbos,
20 valves, and early '90s V6, etc.) tended to beat up the splines on
the output shaft from the gearbox. The resulting looseness produces
noises.

It *starts out* sounding exactly like detonation (pinging), but if you
think about it, it occurs at precisely the wrong times. Detonation
occurs under engine *load* and this doesn't.

It is definitely not the valves because it comes and goes so quickly.
Valve clatter is constant over a wide rpm range (although it can go
away when the engine warms up if the clearances are small) because the
clearances don't change that quickly nor, in the case of hydraulic
lifters, do they pump up and empty that quickly.

You're left with this looseness in the driveline as your only probable
cause, and the symptomatic sounds match the theory exactly - when the
driveline is vascillating slightly between acceleration and
deceleration. It gets progressively worse, depending on how much
stress is put on the joint, but it does so fairly slowly and even when
it's making quite alarming noises, it doesn't really keep the car from
being driven. It's mostly embarassment. Contact Jim at Blaufergnügen
(www.audiquattroparts.com) and ask about his repair parts kit.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

Peter Bell

In message <a8a578a8.0310210645.3724c473@posting.google.com >
warp2_shadow@yahoo.com (C.R. Krieger) wrote:

> Blaufergnügen

Something grates everytime I see this - surely it should be
Blauvergnügen?

--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')