two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
06-16-2007, 05:37 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:09:02 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating.
Bull! The brakes that are locked, not generating *any* heat won't
overheat. The transmission/torque converter will, but not the brakes.
If you are having an unintended throttle situation while moving,
locking up the brakes resolves that issue.
>Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating.
Bull! The brakes that are locked, not generating *any* heat won't
overheat. The transmission/torque converter will, but not the brakes.
If you are having an unintended throttle situation while moving,
locking up the brakes resolves that issue.
>Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
06-16-2007, 06:39 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
In article <2k5873dr6quhl2bq76hbqcnqbq9q3b96ck@4ax.com>,
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
06-16-2007, 06:39 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
In article <2k5873dr6quhl2bq76hbqcnqbq9q3b96ck@4ax.com>,
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
06-16-2007, 06:39 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
In article <2k5873dr6quhl2bq76hbqcnqbq9q3b96ck@4ax.com>,
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
06-16-2007, 06:39 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S 2.8L V6 engine
In article <2k5873dr6quhl2bq76hbqcnqbq9q3b96ck@4ax.com>,
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
Dave LaCourse <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:54:37 -0700, 377 <boeing377@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >V 6 right. I normally would have torn into things trying to find a
> >fault, but I want Audi US techs to look at it undisturbed, that is if
> >Audi US ever responds to my emails. There was no floor mat issue and
> >it wasn't a sticking throttle as you might expect from a dirty
> >throttle plate, it rapidly and radically accelerated. In the second
> >incident I was in 5 mph city traffic and it took off. When I put it in
> >neutral it was up against the rev limiter, close to 5500 rpm with both
> >feet up and off the pedals. In the hands of a panicked old driver this
> >fault can and will kill people. Somehow there may be a clue in the
> >reduced brake boost prior to the uncommanded acceleration incident.
> >Can anyone see a way that reduced or falling brake boost vacuum could
> >cause or be related to this?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> Put your foot on the brake pedal. Have someone that knows where the
> brake pedal is show you.
>
> In *neutral*, rev the engine to 5000 rpms.
>
> Now, drop the gear shift lever into drive.
>
> I gots me a hundred bucks that says you won't move a foot.
The original poster was talking about sudden, unexpected acceleration.
We're not talking about accelerating against locked brakes.
06-17-2007, 07:35 AM
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:09:02 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
06-17-2007, 07:35 AM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:09:02 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
06-17-2007, 07:35 AM
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:09:02 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
06-17-2007, 07:35 AM
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:09:02 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
<mcmurtri@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>First, there are several ways for an engine to uncontrollably
>accelerate. Check recall listing web sites.
>Brake booster blow-out or malfunction
>Electronic throttle malfunction
>Cruise control failure
>Intake gasket blow-out
>Cracked intake
>Broken throttle return spring
>Throttle cable seizes
Any situation you can dream up can be overcome by applying the brakes.
When this "unintentionall acceleration problem" first surfaced many
years ago, it was found to be bogus. One car dealer somewhere on the
west coast revved an Audi to 5000 rpms and dropped it into gear. The
car didn't move.
>
>Second, the brakes in many cars can only hold back a full throttle
>engine for a few seconds before overheating. Any teen who's thrashed
>his car can tell you that.
Horse puckies. If the disc isn't turning when the pads are applied,
there is NO heat. Heat is the product of friction. There is no
friction if the wheels are not turning.
The original "problem" many years ago was found to be operator error.
There was nothing wrong with any of the cars. The same was true when
Cadillac had the "problem".
Dave
RS6
06-17-2007, 11:20 AM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: two SCARY sudden acceleration incidents 92 Audi 100S
Dave,
I have a job. I am an electrical engineer. I never said the brakes
wouldnt stop the car, they DID.
I too once held a totally skeptical attitude about sudden accel. I
thought it was senile drivers jamming on the gas harder and harder
thinking it was the brake pedal. Maybe most of those cases were driver
confusion caused, but mine was not.
On the first instance I was driving UPHILL, and the car started to
accelerate. I thought it was a runaway cruise control, took my foot
off the gas, tapped the brakes, then even shut the cc off, all to no
avail. I pulled over, pulled out the cc fuse and thought everything
would be OK.
Later that same day in 5 mph traffic, on flat ground, the engine wound
up and I had to jam on the brakes to keep from hitting the person in
front of me. When I got stopped and put it in neutral it was near
redline RPM with BOTH FEET OFF THE PEDALS. I shut it off, restarted
it, redline RPM again, right up against the rev limiter. On the next
restart it was normal idle.
I am not trying to make one red cent off Audi, just keep someone from
getting killed. Believe me, a panicked driver with this problem could
easily kill someone.
If you think I dont know cars, I have rebuilt engines myself. I know
the difference between a stuck throttle and an accelerating throttle.
I am not an Audi expert but I am not an idiot either.
If you think I panicked and jammed on the gas pedal you are wrong. I
know how to keep cool. I have twice in my long skydiving career had to
deal with main chute failures and I am obviously still alive.
I totally understand your doubts, I once shared them.
Mark
I have a job. I am an electrical engineer. I never said the brakes
wouldnt stop the car, they DID.
I too once held a totally skeptical attitude about sudden accel. I
thought it was senile drivers jamming on the gas harder and harder
thinking it was the brake pedal. Maybe most of those cases were driver
confusion caused, but mine was not.
On the first instance I was driving UPHILL, and the car started to
accelerate. I thought it was a runaway cruise control, took my foot
off the gas, tapped the brakes, then even shut the cc off, all to no
avail. I pulled over, pulled out the cc fuse and thought everything
would be OK.
Later that same day in 5 mph traffic, on flat ground, the engine wound
up and I had to jam on the brakes to keep from hitting the person in
front of me. When I got stopped and put it in neutral it was near
redline RPM with BOTH FEET OFF THE PEDALS. I shut it off, restarted
it, redline RPM again, right up against the rev limiter. On the next
restart it was normal idle.
I am not trying to make one red cent off Audi, just keep someone from
getting killed. Believe me, a panicked driver with this problem could
easily kill someone.
If you think I dont know cars, I have rebuilt engines myself. I know
the difference between a stuck throttle and an accelerating throttle.
I am not an Audi expert but I am not an idiot either.
If you think I panicked and jammed on the gas pedal you are wrong. I
know how to keep cool. I have twice in my long skydiving career had to
deal with main chute failures and I am obviously still alive.
I totally understand your doubts, I once shared them.
Mark
