Steve Sears

Adam,
I'm not sure we're on the same page here about vacuum leaks.
Yes, there's vacuum that's used to assist the brakes (assuming that the 90
had the old/new vac. assist brake system), adjust the climate control, etc.
That vacuum may be generated by an electric pump (like the power lock
system) or a cam driven pump (like on the old 4k's) or syphoned off the
engine intake using a check valve.
When the (non-turbo) engine is running, the engine produces a vacuum - that
is why air flows into it. There's a measuring device (in my 5k's, it's the
CIS airflow meter) that figures out how much fuel to put in based on the
amount of air flowing in. Between the meter and the engine, there's a
vacuum. If there are any leaks in the plumbing between meter and engine,
then unmeasured air will enter the engine and the mixture will get screwed
up. From what I understand, the Smoke Test pressurizes the intake and leaks
will let the smoke out. Most leaks will be found with this test, although
I've heard that some leaks let air in, but tend to seal under pressure.
The Bentley test is a good indicator of leaks in vacuum lines - which may be
connected to things like emission controls, timing advance, etc. in which
case the test is good. A Mity Vac is good for these tests, too, and gives
you a gauge to read the leakdown. The test will not uncover leaks in any of
the intake hoses, though.
The propane gas test will suck in propane into the system, causing an
increase in rpms - when the engine is at operating temperature and idle is
stable, you'll have a fairly high intake vacuum to test with.
Obviously, this is not a test to be done in a closed space....but you
wouldn't be idling a car in there anyway, right?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
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"Adam" <adam@synap-sys.com> wrote in message
news:he8m60t2otb93stdvhanla5t41cboni4sm@4ax.com...
> looking through my new 1,800 pg Bentley factory guide, they provide a
> different way of testing the vacuum system, I don't have it in front
> of me at the moment but this is how it goes:
> take the hose off the vaccuum motor(pump)
> put your finger over the end of the hose
> pull the linkage from the vacuum servo until it's fully extended
> if the linkage returns there's a problem w/ the servo
> if it doesn't there's a problem with one of the hoses or clamps
> or there's a problem with the vacuum vents by the pedals
>
> I haven't attempted this method yet, I just got my manual yesterday.
> Any chance of visually inspecting the hoses?
>
> Talking to an import garage, the smoke test is an actual smoke machine
> that they connect to the system and just look to see where the smoke
> is coming out..??
>
> I'll be attemping this inspection in a couple days....keep you posted
> Adam
>
>
> On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:12:35 -0500, "Dave Smith"
> <davewsmith@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> > steve's right adam, the best all be it rather unorthodox way to find a
vac
> >leak is with the propane torch or any other flammable gas. dont be afraid
to
> >do this, just be careful and follow obvious saftey issues.
> >
>

Adam

thanks again Steve,
The vacuum system I was thinking about was the one involving the Main
Electrical Control unit which is involved in the cruise control
system. I thought I might start here since my cruise control is not
working (I know there are multiple reasos for this, but the vacuum
test seems straightforward enough.)
After this I'll graduate to the enigne/meter test and bust out the
propane. I'm fairly confident that this engine/meter vacuum is where
the leak is because of the low rpm power loss and because I can
literally hear what can't be anything but an air leak, even over the
noise of the engine.
One more novice question, does it make any sense that this sound
sometimes subsides somewhat after the engine runs for awhile?
The low-end power loss is still present though.

I did not realize how many various vacuum systems there are.
Glad I have this Bentley.

thanks for all your help
sherlock vacuum.
Adam

Steve Sears

Adam,
The vacuum cruise is not too bad to troubleshoot - usually there's a leak in
the vacuum switches at the pedals - it's a good idea to give them a clean as
your feet always bring in some new dust to clog them up. When I first got
my '87 the cruise did not work - I followed most of Huw Powell's
instructions at http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/cruise.htm to no avail -
as a last step I went to check the CC "brain" under the steering wheel - all
I found was a loose connector - no "brain"...damn.....pretty well sums up
how I felt as well - sad considering it's part #1 on Huw's list. At least
it's not like the "prototype" electric CC I have in my 1980 5k - which has a
tendency to floor the accelerator after being unresponsive for 100 km - Audi
switched to vacuum mid-1980 model year.
A Mechanic's stethoscope is a good tool to use to look for the source of the
leak sound. You can move the pickup around to pinpoint where the noise is
coming from. Yes, leaks can change as the car warms up - metal parts
expand, rubber contracts (somewhat) and some leaks seal - common with
exhaust manifold leaks in 5kt's - ticking that goes away when the engine is
warmed up can be either lifters and an EM leak.
You might want to bookmark Huw's site - he has lots of stuff there on
non-turbos there, including a troubleshooting checklist:
http://www.humanspeakers.com/audi/tuning-cise.htm
There are other 'net resources, such as:
www.audifans.com - including their excellent Knowledgebase at
http://www.audi-quattro.org/cgi-bin/...w/Audi/WebHome,
www.sjmautotechnik.com, http://www.isham-research.com/quattro/ etc etc.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - vacuum cruise works when car is warm (vac. pump issue)
1980 Audi 5k - electric cruise only works to startle passengers
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - manual cruise works so long as
I don't sprain my ankle....
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"Adam" <adam@synap-sys.com> wrote in message
news:li7p60pip84koqv0c1bphijpufakr61f9d@4ax.com...
> thanks again Steve,
> The vacuum system I was thinking about was the one involving the Main
> Electrical Control unit which is involved in the cruise control
> system. I thought I might start here since my cruise control is not
> working (I know there are multiple reasos for this, but the vacuum
> test seems straightforward enough.)
> After this I'll graduate to the enigne/meter test and bust out the
> propane. I'm fairly confident that this engine/meter vacuum is where
> the leak is because of the low rpm power loss and because I can
> literally hear what can't be anything but an air leak, even over the
> noise of the engine.
> One more novice question, does it make any sense that this sound
> sometimes subsides somewhat after the engine runs for awhile?
> The low-end power loss is still present though.
>
> I did not realize how many various vacuum systems there are.
> Glad I have this Bentley.
>
> thanks for all your help
> sherlock vacuum.
> Adam

Adam

These are great resource. Thanks for the links.
Adam

On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 09:55:32 -0500, "Steve Sears"
<steve.sears@SHOESsoil-mat.on.ca> wrote: