Quattro Expense
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
Hi!
Richard Potato wrote:
> Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
Driving a '80 quattro with about 160k miles now the only
quattro-related costs I had, were the bulbs for the
illumination of the diff-lock switch symbol plate...
In my view the "higher consumption because of the
AWD" practitcally is a myth. Since you need less braking
*before* and (therefore) less acceleration *after* a bend
to gain the same *average* speed over a given (twisty)
strech of street you actually will use *less* gas than with
the FWD version; all else equal of course. I never used more
than 5% over the figures for the FWD version of my car, and
thats with a tiny 4cyl engine.
If you drive faster -- and you will -- it's your problem ))
The added weight in my car over the FWD version is 80kg, as
much as a passenger. Compare that little more gas for city
driving with the absolutely even wear between front and rear
tires and you are quit.
So long!
Ero.
--
Ero Rademer ANTISPAM in effect.
Richard Potato wrote:
> Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
Driving a '80 quattro with about 160k miles now the only
quattro-related costs I had, were the bulbs for the
illumination of the diff-lock switch symbol plate...
In my view the "higher consumption because of the
AWD" practitcally is a myth. Since you need less braking
*before* and (therefore) less acceleration *after* a bend
to gain the same *average* speed over a given (twisty)
strech of street you actually will use *less* gas than with
the FWD version; all else equal of course. I never used more
than 5% over the figures for the FWD version of my car, and
thats with a tiny 4cyl engine.
If you drive faster -- and you will -- it's your problem ))
The added weight in my car over the FWD version is 80kg, as
much as a passenger. Compare that little more gas for city
driving with the absolutely even wear between front and rear
tires and you are quit.
So long!
Ero.
--
Ero Rademer ANTISPAM in effect.
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
<abcde@nexgo.de> wrote in message news:3FFADCA7.CF9F3AFF@nexgo.de...
> Hi!
>
> Richard Potato wrote:
> > Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
> Driving a '80 quattro with about 160k miles now the only
> quattro-related costs I had, were the bulbs for the
> illumination of the diff-lock switch symbol plate...
>
> In my view the "higher consumption because of the
> AWD" practitcally is a myth. Since you need less braking
> *before* and (therefore) less acceleration *after* a bend
> to gain the same *average* speed over a given (twisty)
> strech of street you actually will use *less* gas than with
> the FWD version; all else equal of course. I never used more
> than 5% over the figures for the FWD version of my car, and
> thats with a tiny 4cyl engine.
>
> If you drive faster -- and you will -- it's your problem ))
>
> The added weight in my car over the FWD version is 80kg, as
> much as a passenger. Compare that little more gas for city
> driving with the absolutely even wear between front and rear
> tires and you are quit.
>
> So long!
> Ero.
>
> --
> Ero Rademer ANTISPAM in effect.
My last 3 cars have all been quattro, and I have been more than happy with
the fuel consumption,given the performance and handling. All have averaged
over 33 m.p.g. (UK Imperial gallons).
--
Doug Ramage
***Watch Spam Trap***
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
"Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>
> Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
It appears I'm the one guy who has spent the *most* on Quattro-related
expenses here.
The rear differential seals can eventually leak - at around 150K miles, IME
and IIRC. It costs about $80/side to replace them. It takes a long time
for it to actually damage the car; it won't strand you anywhere, and you
should have noticed the drips and fixed it well before that time. You'll
only ever do it once per side on a car. All other rear suspension issues
(struts, bushings, etc.) you might encounter are similar to those of the FWD
cars.
I also have had one Quattro (a '90 90 20V) get loose rear driveshaft
splines. I understand this happens in the higher-powered older cars like
the turbos and the 20V 5-cylinders with manual transmissions. It's very
progressive. I had a noise from 132,000 miles (when I bought the car) that
gradually got louder until 178,000 miles (when I sold the car). It is not a
debilitating problem, only a growing annoyance. On 3 other older Quattros
I've owned, I saw 232,000-266,000 miles with no AWD-related problems other
than the diff seals.
That said, I love the Quattro drivetrain and I would *not* consider an Audi
without it.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>
> Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
It appears I'm the one guy who has spent the *most* on Quattro-related
expenses here.
The rear differential seals can eventually leak - at around 150K miles, IME
and IIRC. It costs about $80/side to replace them. It takes a long time
for it to actually damage the car; it won't strand you anywhere, and you
should have noticed the drips and fixed it well before that time. You'll
only ever do it once per side on a car. All other rear suspension issues
(struts, bushings, etc.) you might encounter are similar to those of the FWD
cars.
I also have had one Quattro (a '90 90 20V) get loose rear driveshaft
splines. I understand this happens in the higher-powered older cars like
the turbos and the 20V 5-cylinders with manual transmissions. It's very
progressive. I had a noise from 132,000 miles (when I bought the car) that
gradually got louder until 178,000 miles (when I sold the car). It is not a
debilitating problem, only a growing annoyance. On 3 other older Quattros
I've owned, I saw 232,000-266,000 miles with no AWD-related problems other
than the diff seals.
That said, I love the Quattro drivetrain and I would *not* consider an Audi
without it.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
"Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>
> Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
> Thanks in advance.
There are more CV joints and boots on the quattro. The CV joints as in most
cars are pretty much bulletproof UNLESS the rubber boots tear and then dirt
in the CV joint will rapidly destroy it just like any FWD car. Other than
that, I have driven quattros for 17 years and found them to be trouble-free.
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
"Ian S" <iws51remove@***.net> wrote in message
news:WEEKb.18056$7D3.13900@fed1read02...
>
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
> news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> > I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> > that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> > it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
> >
> > Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> There are more CV joints and boots on the quattro. The CV joints as in
most
> cars are pretty much bulletproof UNLESS the rubber boots tear and then
dirt
> in the CV joint will rapidly destroy it just like any FWD car. Other than
> that, I have driven quattros for 17 years and found them to be
trouble-free.
the AWD part that is. Other components are less reliable. My 98 A4 offers
the renowned old British car feature of external lubrication of the garage
floor. I am preparing for a timing belt change at 66,000 miles that the
owners' manual says is due at 90,000 miles but which often fails prior to
that point taking a variety of expensive engine parts with it. At least my
electrical coil has been reliable which is more than can be said for some
newer A4s. Good grief, wasn't that technology pretty much perfected a
century ago? I will grant that Audi has finally mastered the technology of
door handles that don't fall off. I've heard they're now working on tie rod
ends and control arms.
news:WEEKb.18056$7D3.13900@fed1read02...
>
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
> news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> > I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> > that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> > it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
> >
> > Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> There are more CV joints and boots on the quattro. The CV joints as in
most
> cars are pretty much bulletproof UNLESS the rubber boots tear and then
dirt
> in the CV joint will rapidly destroy it just like any FWD car. Other than
> that, I have driven quattros for 17 years and found them to be
trouble-free.
the AWD part that is. Other components are less reliable. My 98 A4 offers
the renowned old British car feature of external lubrication of the garage
floor. I am preparing for a timing belt change at 66,000 miles that the
owners' manual says is due at 90,000 miles but which often fails prior to
that point taking a variety of expensive engine parts with it. At least my
electrical coil has been reliable which is more than can be said for some
newer A4s. Good grief, wasn't that technology pretty much perfected a
century ago? I will grant that Audi has finally mastered the technology of
door handles that don't fall off. I've heard they're now working on tie rod
ends and control arms.
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
My last company car was an A6 Quattro which replaced a 2WD A4 - the big A6
gave much better tyre milage and was a much more balanced car to drive fast
on twisty roads. In terms of overall cost, I didn't have it long enough (60k
miles) to discover whether the drive train was problematic in any way, but
I'd have been very surprised indeed if it had given trouble!
The only issue which was drive train related in any way was having to
replace ALL four tyres having written one off! The remaining three were all
relativly worn and the advice was to change the lot. Whether that was good /
accurate / real advice I don't know as I wasn't paying for it at the time.
If I were paying for it, I'd have been more concerned.
When finances allow, I'll be back with a Quattro - what superb roadholding
it gave!
Mike.
C.R. Krieger <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ffb29f8$0$43849$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
> news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> > I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> > that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> > it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
> >
> > Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
> It appears I'm the one guy who has spent the *most* on Quattro-related
> expenses here.
>
> The rear differential seals can eventually leak - at around 150K miles,
IME
> and IIRC. It costs about $80/side to replace them. It takes a long time
> for it to actually damage the car; it won't strand you anywhere, and you
> should have noticed the drips and fixed it well before that time. You'll
> only ever do it once per side on a car. All other rear suspension issues
> (struts, bushings, etc.) you might encounter are similar to those of the
FWD
> cars.
gave much better tyre milage and was a much more balanced car to drive fast
on twisty roads. In terms of overall cost, I didn't have it long enough (60k
miles) to discover whether the drive train was problematic in any way, but
I'd have been very surprised indeed if it had given trouble!
The only issue which was drive train related in any way was having to
replace ALL four tyres having written one off! The remaining three were all
relativly worn and the advice was to change the lot. Whether that was good /
accurate / real advice I don't know as I wasn't paying for it at the time.
If I were paying for it, I'd have been more concerned.
When finances allow, I'll be back with a Quattro - what superb roadholding
it gave!
Mike.
C.R. Krieger <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3ffb29f8$0$43849$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
> news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> > I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
> > that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
> > it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
> >
> > Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
> It appears I'm the one guy who has spent the *most* on Quattro-related
> expenses here.
>
> The rear differential seals can eventually leak - at around 150K miles,
IME
> and IIRC. It costs about $80/side to replace them. It takes a long time
> for it to actually damage the car; it won't strand you anywhere, and you
> should have noticed the drips and fixed it well before that time. You'll
> only ever do it once per side on a car. All other rear suspension issues
> (struts, bushings, etc.) you might encounter are similar to those of the
FWD
> cars.
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
Pete wrote:
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
>
>>I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
>>that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
>>it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>>
>>Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
>
> Long term expense? Can you ask him to elaborate on this? The system is nearly bullet-proof. Sure, it would cost a lot if you had to replace it, but the fact is, it rarely ever needs any fixing/maintenance.
>
> The only added expense I can really see is slightly higher fuel consumption. For me, that's a small price to pay for the fun and convenience it delivers.
Agreed. It makes little sense at all here in the US where every soccer
mom is driving around in a gas guzzling 4WD SUV. For me, the driving
experience, safety, and creature comforts far outweighs the slightly
lower mileage. As for repair costs, my experience with Audi vehicles
doesn't jibe with the original poster's hearsay.
Regards,
C
> "Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
>
>>I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
>>that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
>>it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>>
>>Any comments about the long term costs of Audi AWD?
>
>
> Long term expense? Can you ask him to elaborate on this? The system is nearly bullet-proof. Sure, it would cost a lot if you had to replace it, but the fact is, it rarely ever needs any fixing/maintenance.
>
> The only added expense I can really see is slightly higher fuel consumption. For me, that's a small price to pay for the fun and convenience it delivers.
Agreed. It makes little sense at all here in the US where every soccer
mom is driving around in a gas guzzling 4WD SUV. For me, the driving
experience, safety, and creature comforts far outweighs the slightly
lower mileage. As for repair costs, my experience with Audi vehicles
doesn't jibe with the original poster's hearsay.
Regards,
C
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
Doug Ramage wrote:
> My last 3 cars have all been quattro, and I have been more than happy with
> the fuel consumption,given the performance and handling. All have averaged
> over 33 m.p.g. (UK Imperial gallons).
I average about 24mpg in the US with a '99 A4 1.8T quattro with a number
of performance modifications (ECU upgrade/exhaust/etc) and "spirited"
city/highway driving. On a long highway trip with a light foot, I get
about 28mpg.
Cheers,
C
> My last 3 cars have all been quattro, and I have been more than happy with
> the fuel consumption,given the performance and handling. All have averaged
> over 33 m.p.g. (UK Imperial gallons).
I average about 24mpg in the US with a '99 A4 1.8T quattro with a number
of performance modifications (ECU upgrade/exhaust/etc) and "spirited"
city/highway driving. On a long highway trip with a light foot, I get
about 28mpg.
Cheers,
C
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 01:06:25 -0000, "Hairy One Kenobi"
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>"Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
>news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
>> I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
>> that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
>> it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>
>Less that driving a 2WD vehicle into a tree? Or other relatively fixed part
>of the landscape? ;o)
Cost related to higher consumption of consumables related to more
moving parts. Trees and other unmovable objects are the subject of
another thread.
>
>TBH, it all depends upon how you drive, how you'd prefer to drive (given the
>opportunity), how many miles, and the likely terrain.
Not very many km's, highly varied terrain but mostly 11 km back and
forth to where I type out these missives. And highway speeds, <95km/hr
for 1/2 the trip. Which is why I am not looking at the 3.0 l A4
Quattro. Too much bhp for too little road.
>
>Impossible to comment without more information (the country might help, as
>well, as running costs can vary a /lot/ between (e.g.) the USA and most
>everywhere else)
Canada, wet coast. Everything is more expensive here than any where
else in the couuntry except for the rain. Falls from the sky year
round here except during the summer and other times of the year.
The opinion of the mech is just that. Ultimately the question would
be: Audi but no quattro? I am just trying to stay away from the
emotional part of this thing but ask me on monday after the test
drives.
>
>--
>
>Hairy One Kenobi
>
>Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
>in the first place. So there!
>
>
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>"Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
>news:3ff9bc21.10109727@news.gv.shawcable.net...
>> I was talking to my local mech about AWD/quattro vs FWD and he said
>> that while it drives nicely the added long term expense is not worth
>> it. I am going to buy an A4 but not sure about FWD or AWD.
>
>Less that driving a 2WD vehicle into a tree? Or other relatively fixed part
>of the landscape? ;o)
Cost related to higher consumption of consumables related to more
moving parts. Trees and other unmovable objects are the subject of
another thread.
>
>TBH, it all depends upon how you drive, how you'd prefer to drive (given the
>opportunity), how many miles, and the likely terrain.
Not very many km's, highly varied terrain but mostly 11 km back and
forth to where I type out these missives. And highway speeds, <95km/hr
for 1/2 the trip. Which is why I am not looking at the 3.0 l A4
Quattro. Too much bhp for too little road.
>
>Impossible to comment without more information (the country might help, as
>well, as running costs can vary a /lot/ between (e.g.) the USA and most
>everywhere else)
Canada, wet coast. Everything is more expensive here than any where
else in the couuntry except for the rain. Falls from the sky year
round here except during the summer and other times of the year.
The opinion of the mech is just that. Ultimately the question would
be: Audi but no quattro? I am just trying to stay away from the
emotional part of this thing but ask me on monday after the test
drives.
>
>--
>
>Hairy One Kenobi
>
>Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
>in the first place. So there!
>
>
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Quattro Expense
"Richard Potato" <@tater.cu> wrote in message
news:3ffc9267.24376241@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> Ultimately the question would
> be: Audi but no quattro? I am just trying to stay away from the
> emotional part of this thing but ask me on monday after the test
> drives.
If you're determined to get an Audi, then get a quattro. It's the most
reliable part of the car, IMHO. Indeed, I don't recall EVER hearing of
people having problems with it in the over two decades and several versions
it's been around. One caveat, A4s are not known for neck-snapping
acceleration so an un-chipped 1.8T quattro may be a little anemic in that
department. The 3.0 quattro would be more balanced IMHO. However, chipping
the 1.8T is a way around that problem. Be aware too that there are not a lot
of independent mechanics who work on Audis so you might be forced to have
work done by the dealer. Nice thing though is the long and comprehensive
warranty.
news:3ffc9267.24376241@news.gv.shawcable.net...
> Ultimately the question would
> be: Audi but no quattro? I am just trying to stay away from the
> emotional part of this thing but ask me on monday after the test
> drives.
If you're determined to get an Audi, then get a quattro. It's the most
reliable part of the car, IMHO. Indeed, I don't recall EVER hearing of
people having problems with it in the over two decades and several versions
it's been around. One caveat, A4s are not known for neck-snapping
acceleration so an un-chipped 1.8T quattro may be a little anemic in that
department. The 3.0 quattro would be more balanced IMHO. However, chipping
the 1.8T is a way around that problem. Be aware too that there are not a lot
of independent mechanics who work on Audis so you might be forced to have
work done by the dealer. Nice thing though is the long and comprehensive
warranty.