Ronny Svedman

Two years ago i bought a dirt cheap, well used Audi 100 1.8E

this is the absolutely cheapest version of the car,
with a 4 cylinder 90 Hp K-jetronic engine,
no power steering, no electric windows, no nothing.

basically a Golf in a larger piece of metal.

When I bought it it had 295000 km on the meter, and now it has 346000 (i
drive a lot...). It has been runnig like clockwork all this time (and
according to the previous owner since new), getting good gas mileage, no
oil consumption to speak of (for an old car and only needed very basic
maintenance (brake pads etc).

As I was driving to my folks for Christmas , about 400 km, after halfway
it lit the oil pressure light, so I pulled over. when I checked the stick
there was oil on it, but it seemed very thin, and it was on the low end of
the scale, so I added about a litre, started the car and the light went
off.

I wasa little surpirsed because unitl now the car hasn't used much oil, it
basically needs a litre every other refuelling (1500 km or so, i usually
top it up on payday and the drive a month; I get about 7.5 l/100km
mileage), but this time it had used a litre in only 200 km. there is no
obvious leakage, and no visible blue exhaust.

i got to my parent's house, celebrated christmas and went home (400 km)

The day after coming home I discovered that the oil light flickers at
idle, whenever the engine is warm. The temp seems normal and the radiator
fan turns off and on just fine. The oil level is at max. I feel no
difference in the engine performance, it's the same smooth sluggish
sewingmachine motor as always.

Do you people think I damaged the engine badly when I ran it out of
oil?

I stopped the engine ASAP when the light came on, but I was doing 140km
at 7/8 part throttle when it happened..

Maybe I just need an oilchange, to my layman eyes the oil on the stick
seems very thin, compared to the oil in the bottle. Is it possible that
short trips to and from work with repeated cold starts have made the oil
mix with unburned petrol and such now that winter has come around, and
then the petrol Oozed away when I took a longer trip and things heated up
properly?

maybe 346000 km is about the life expectancy of the 1.8E 90 hp engine, and
it is going to die anyway?

Maybe the short lack of oil pressure caused just enough wear to drop the
idle pressure enough to trigger the sensor, and it was low already due to
normal wear?


What do you people think? Any suggestions are welcome. This car has been a
great cheapskate for me, I bought it for about 1000 Euro, and have done
almost 50000 kms on it wiht only changing front brakepads and rotors,
getting new tyres, a fanbelt and a set of sparkplugs.. incredible.

Hmm. i just realised i havent changed oil in 50000 km :-/
I guess I'll go ahead and do that tomorrow.

should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine? Should I even consider
semi-synthetic or is anything but dirtcheap wholesale oil a waste?

writing to newgroups really help sometimes

//Cheapskate Audi driver

abcde@nexgo.de

Hi!

Ronny Svedman wrote:
> this is the absolutely cheapest version of the car,
> with a 4 cylinder 90 Hp K-jetronic engine,

Nope. The "cheapest"[1] was the first from 82/83 with a
75hp (70hp Swiss version) 1.8l 4cyl carburated version...

> Do you people think I damaged the engine badly when I ran it out of
> oil?

Running at the minimum mark should never damage the engine (if that's
your only problem). I numerously ran "out of oil" (dry dipstick), never
had a problem with such an engine (DR) and sold it with 390tkm. Bone
dry and as fast as from the factory...


> I stopped the engine ASAP when the light came on, but I was doing 140km
> at 7/8 part throttle when it happened..
+
> Maybe the short lack of oil pressure caused just enough wear to drop the
> idle pressure enough to trigger the sensor, and it was low already due to
> normal wear?

The Audi has a two step "trigger" 1.8bar for above 2000rpm and 0.3bar
for
below. A few seconds below 1.8 and above 1bar at (140km/h>3000rpm)
should
not damage anything but...

> Maybe I just need an oilchange

Def'ntly. Esp. when I read:

> there is no
> obvious leakage, and no visible blue exhaust.
+
> Hmm. i just realised i havent changed oil in 50000 km :-/
+
> Is it possible that
> short trips to and from work with repeated cold starts have made the oil
> mix with unburned petrol and such now that winter has come around, and
> then the petrol Oozed away when I took a longer trip and things heated up
> properly?

100% yes. Thats 99% the reason you burn oil at all on the "first" longer
trip among a lot of short ones.

> maybe 346000 km is about the life expectancy of the 1.8E 90 hp engine, and
> it is going to die anyway?

No. See above.

> should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine?

Maybe, but only if the oil consumption raises from "immeasurable"
between
changes to "recongnisable". (You did not give WHAT oil you use at the
moment.)

> Should I even consider
> semi-synthetic or is anything but dirtcheap wholesale oil a waste?

I ran semi 10W-40 from Walmart for years and it worked ok. And my
change intervals were around 50-60tkm too. YMMV. When the oil is not
used and not topped up (since there is no need to), then with a slightly
better oil, you will sleep better when regularly apply change intervals
in the 50thousands...


HTH
So long!
Ero.

P.S. [1] "Cheap" is relative... that one used 6.5l/100km in summer
and 7.5 in winter...

--
Ero Rademer ANTISPAM in effect.

Ronny Svedman

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 abcde@nexgo.de wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Ronny Svedman wrote:
> > this is the absolutely cheapest version of the car,
> > with a 4 cylinder 90 Hp K-jetronic engine,
>
> Nope. The "cheapest"[1] was the first from 82/83 with a
> 75hp (70hp Swiss version) 1.8l 4cyl carburated version...

Must have been the cheapest in 1988 anyway =)

Argh! that's gotta be a slug..

> The Audi has a two step "trigger" 1.8bar for above 2000rpm and 0.3bar
> for
> below. A few seconds below 1.8 and above 1bar at (140km/h>3000rpm)
> should
> not damage anything but...

That is useful info.

> > Maybe I just need an oilchange
> > should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine?
>
> Maybe, but only if the oil consumption raises from "immeasurable"
> between
> changes to "recongnisable". (You did not give WHAT oil you use at the
> moment.)

1 litre oil to 150 litres petroll.. that has to be
"recognisable" already

that poor little engine sure has a hard life in the heavy car.. lots of
revving and full throttle accelerations.

> I ran semi 10W-40 from Walmart for years and it worked ok. And my
> change intervals were around 50-60tkm too. YMMV. When the oil is not
> used and not topped up (since there is no need to), then with a slightly
> better oil, you will sleep better when regularly apply change intervals
> in the 50thousands...

I guess i'll go for 15w50 then, I whip the out of the engine way too
often, it's just too small for the big car body...

amazingly enough the lifters are silent after just a few seconds on a cold
start, not at all like other audis i've seen, thats why I was surprised to
see it has low oil pressure. Maybe i should get an oil press. gauge so I
can see whats happening.. Could be the sensor has stuck in "high" mode or
something.

By the way: I hear a "bearing" kind of rattle at idle, that goes away when
I press the clutch.. is that the clutch bearing, and how loud does it get
before seizing up and wrecking things around it?

What is the best way to raise the idle RPM easily, to keep the oil light
from coming on? a 50 or 100 RPM increase is enough to put it out. (and if
i light the highbeams (2x60 + 3x55 Watt) the rpms drop a little, making
the oil light steady instead of flickering)

Is the tiny stopscrew on the throttle valve arm the right place, or is
there some other place to look?

C.R. Krieger

"Ronny Svedman" <ronny@update.uu.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0401021632280.15292-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE...

> > > Maybe I just need an oilchange
> > > should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine?
> >
> > Maybe, but only if the oil consumption raises from "immeasurable"
> > between
> > changes to "recongnisable". (You did not give WHAT oil you use at the
> > moment.)
>
> 1 litre oil to 150 litres petroll.. that has to be
> "recognisable" already

A heavier weight oil can help *if* the problem is loosening tolerances in
the engine.

> amazingly enough the lifters are silent after just a few seconds on a cold
> start, not at all like other audis i've seen, thats why I was surprised to
> see it has low oil pressure. Maybe i should get an oil press. gauge so I
> can see whats happening.. Could be the sensor has stuck in "high" mode or
> something.

Low viscosity oil helps the lifters pump up faster. As for the actual
pressure, a test might help, but it can be equally easy, as well as cheaper,
to simply change the sensor switch. These things are dirt cheap (<$10) and
are notorious for failing.

> By the way: I hear a "bearing" kind of rattle at idle, that goes away when
> I press the clutch.. is that the clutch bearing, and how loud does it get
> before seizing up and wrecking things around it?

It's the clutch *throwout* bearing. Goes away when you press the clutch
because you're exerting pressure on it. When it fails, it is more likely to
fall apart and simply lie there - while you can't disengage the clutch. Not
a terrible problem if you can start the car in gear and drive home
clutchless.

> What is the best way to raise the idle RPM easily, to keep the oil light
> from coming on? a 50 or 100 RPM increase is enough to put it out. (and if
> i light the highbeams (2x60 + 3x55 Watt) the rpms drop a little, making
> the oil light steady instead of flickering)
>
> Is the tiny stopscrew on the throttle valve arm the right place, or is
> there some other place to look?

Try the switch first. If it isn't that, chances are your oil pump is
getting worn out.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

Ronny Svedman

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004, C.R. Krieger wrote:

> "Ronny Svedman" <ronny@update.uu.se> wrote in message
> news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0401021632280.15292-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE...
>
> > > > Maybe I just need an oilchange
> > > > should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine?

> A heavier weight oil can help *if* the problem is loosening tolerances in
> the engine.

There is a slight but unignorable, ominous, knocking sound at idle
it goes away if i raise the idle RPM a little (so does the oil light).

I fear the main crank bearings might be worn out.. or the oil pump, as you
said.

> to simply change the sensor switch. These things are dirt cheap (<$10) and
> are notorious for failing.

will do that.

> It's the clutch *throwout* bearing. Goes away when you press the clutch
> because you're exerting pressure on it. When it fails, it is more likely to
> fall apart and simply lie there - while you can't disengage the clutch. Not
> a terrible problem if you can start the car in gear and drive home
> clutchless.

okidoky. that probably means it will get a lot louder before
failing. great =)

> Try the switch first. If it isn't that, chances are your oil pump is
> getting worn out.

I kind of wonder.. What would happen if for some reason the oil filter
would clog up with goop? would that drop oil pressure because of
restricted flow or would it "just" mean the all the oil would bypass the
filter via some pressure valve? (and circulate unfiltered..)

M. Butkus

Try 20W-50. With that kind of mileage... be happy.
May be the oil pump failing or just too much wear on bearings. If the oil
light came one while driving, that is not good. At idle not that much can
happen.




"Ronny Svedman" <ronny@update.uu.se> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.21.0401020527220.9823-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE...
>
> Two years ago i bought a dirt cheap, well used Audi 100 1.8E
>
> this is the absolutely cheapest version of the car,
> with a 4 cylinder 90 Hp K-jetronic engine,
> no power steering, no electric windows, no nothing.
>
> basically a Golf in a larger piece of metal.
>
> When I bought it it had 295000 km on the meter, and now it has 346000 (i
> drive a lot...). It has been runnig like clockwork all this time (and
> according to the previous owner since new), getting good gas mileage, no
> oil consumption to speak of (for an old car and only needed very basic
> maintenance (brake pads etc).
>
> As I was driving to my folks for Christmas , about 400 km, after halfway
> it lit the oil pressure light, so I pulled over. when I checked the stick
> there was oil on it, but it seemed very thin, and it was on the low end of
> the scale, so I added about a litre, started the car and the light went
> off.
>
> I wasa little surpirsed because unitl now the car hasn't used much oil, it
> basically needs a litre every other refuelling (1500 km or so, i usually
> top it up on payday and the drive a month; I get about 7.5 l/100km
> mileage), but this time it had used a litre in only 200 km. there is no
> obvious leakage, and no visible blue exhaust.
>
> i got to my parent's house, celebrated christmas and went home (400 km)
>
> The day after coming home I discovered that the oil light flickers at
> idle, whenever the engine is warm. The temp seems normal and the radiator
> fan turns off and on just fine. The oil level is at max. I feel no
> difference in the engine performance, it's the same smooth sluggish
> sewingmachine motor as always.
>
> Do you people think I damaged the engine badly when I ran it out of
> oil?
>
> I stopped the engine ASAP when the light came on, but I was doing 140km
> at 7/8 part throttle when it happened..
>
> Maybe I just need an oilchange, to my layman eyes the oil on the stick
> seems very thin, compared to the oil in the bottle. Is it possible that
> short trips to and from work with repeated cold starts have made the oil
> mix with unburned petrol and such now that winter has come around, and
> then the petrol Oozed away when I took a longer trip and things heated up
> properly?
>
> maybe 346000 km is about the life expectancy of the 1.8E 90 hp engine, and
> it is going to die anyway?
>
> Maybe the short lack of oil pressure caused just enough wear to drop the
> idle pressure enough to trigger the sensor, and it was low already due to
> normal wear?
>
>
> What do you people think? Any suggestions are welcome. This car has been a
> great cheapskate for me, I bought it for about 1000 Euro, and have done
> almost 50000 kms on it wiht only changing front brakepads and rotors,
> getting new tyres, a fanbelt and a set of sparkplugs.. incredible.
>
> Hmm. i just realised i havent changed oil in 50000 km :-/
> I guess I'll go ahead and do that tomorrow.
>
> should i get a thicker oil for my worn engine? Should I even consider
> semi-synthetic or is anything but dirtcheap wholesale oil a waste?
>
> writing to newgroups really help sometimes
>
> file://Cheapskate Audi driver
>
>
>
>

sick_dog

Hello i´ve had the same problem with a mazda 626, and it was the oil pressure sensor, i replaced it, and have not seen the lamp light after the replacement.

Christoph Bollig

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:17:25 -0600, "sick_dog"
<jimmy-nielsen@tdcadsl.dk> wrote:

> Hello i´ve had the same problem with a mazda 626, and it was the oil pressure sensor, i replaced it, and have not seen the lamp light after the replacement.

Hi,

I can't see the original message, but looking at the subject I would
say I probably had a similar problem on my Audi 100 with 2.2l 5cyl
engine (ocassional oil waring at revs above ~3000) and it wrecked the
engine because I trusted the mechanic who told me that it would most
likely be a sensor fault or an electronics problem

Make sure you don't wait too long before you replace the sensor or
find a garage which can measure the pressure.

Christoph