A 6 Questions
 

I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.

However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion Mercedes,
or just a standard BMW 5 series.

What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
reliability, power, and steering?

Thanks,
Larry

Re: A 6 Questions
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TAKNb.45823$6y6.955027@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
> California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
> like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
> handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
>
> However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
> reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion
Mercedes,
> or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>
> What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
> reliability, power, and steering?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>

E500 4matic? for 8k more you can have an Audi RS6, or even for the same
price get an S4

Re: A 6 Questions
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TAKNb.45823$6y6.955027@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
> California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
> like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
> handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
>
> However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
> reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion
Mercedes,
> or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>
> What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
> reliability, power, and steering?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>

Just another point, here in the UK you cannot buy a A6 4.2 you can get a 3.0
or a S6, the price of the S6 is £49000 and the RS6 is £56000,

I would imagine it would be worth waiting for the new A6 which is released
somtime this year.

Ron

Re: A 6 Questions
 

Larry writes:

>I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
>California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
>like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
>handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
>
>However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
>reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion Mercedes,
>or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>
>What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
>reliability, power, and steering?
>
>Thanks,
>Larry

I just sold my 2000 A6 4.2 to my son-in-law and bought an RS6. The A6 4.2 was
a wonderful car that gave me many trouble-free miles. I had no maintenance
problems whatsoever. When I bought it I considered buying the S4, but it was
just a little too small for my needs. The A6 was perfect, but it was difficult
to choose between the 2.5T and the 4.2 V8.

I bought 4 alloy wheels and mounted a good set of snows for winter use. It
went anywhere I wanted to go, in the worst of New England weather. It was a
joy to drive. But the RS6 sang its siren song and has corrupted me forever.
d;o)


Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: A 6 Questions
 

"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
news:20040116083845.25768.00000057@mb-m23.aol.com...
> Larry writes:
>
> >I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
> >California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
> >like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and
can
> >handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
> >
> >However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
> >reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion
Mercedes,
> >or just a standard BMW 5 series.
> >
> >What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
> >reliability, power, and steering?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Larry
>
> I just sold my 2000 A6 4.2 to my son-in-law and bought an RS6. The A6 4.2
was
> a wonderful car that gave me many trouble-free miles. I had no
maintenance
> problems whatsoever. When I bought it I considered buying the S4, but it
was
> just a little too small for my needs. The A6 was perfect, but it was
difficult
> to choose between the 2.5T and the 4.2 V8.
>
> I bought 4 alloy wheels and mounted a good set of snows for winter use.
It
> went anywhere I wanted to go, in the worst of New England weather. It was
a
> joy to drive. But the RS6 sang its siren song and has corrupted me
forever.
> d;o)
>
>
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html


I need to carry full size adults, and I'm on a budget. Mercedes as of late
has started to slip on reliability in their electronics (not the engines).
I want something that is trouble free, but fun to drive, that seats 4 adults
very comfortably, and can handle some trips into the snow, without chains.

How many miles did you put on your 4.2 A 6? Someone at eOpinions opined
that the V-8 was "sluggish" compared to the 2.7 Turbo? Any thoughts or
opinions?

Your new car is very nice, but well out of the price range that I'm willing
to pay.


>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: A 6 Questions
 

Larry writes:

>I need to carry full size adults, and I'm on a budget. Mercedes as of late
>has started to slip on reliability in their electronics (not the engines).
>I want something that is trouble free, but fun to drive, that seats 4 adults
>very comfortably, and can handle some trips into the snow, without chains.

Ta dah! A6 Quattro. It will seat four adults comfortably and there is a good
size trunk for baggage


>
>How many miles did you put on your 4.2 A 6?

It had 68,000 trouble free miles.

Someone at eOpinions opined
>that the V-8 was "sluggish" compared to the 2.7 Turbo? Any thoughts or
>opinions?
>

I drove the 2.7 Turbo the same day I bought the 4.2 V8. It may have just been
the particular car I drove, but it was under-tired. Straight line acceleration
was good, but in the twisties, it just didn't have the feel I was used to. The
4.2, otoh, came with 255/45 - 18 tires, more than enough to make the car feel
good. Plus, I'm an old man who has spent 50 years shifting 3,4,5, and 6 speed
trannies. My left leg ain't what it used to be, so the TipTronic of the 4.6
made sense.


>Your new car is very nice, but well out of the price range that I'm willing
>to pay.

When you're an old phart like me perhaps you can afford it. d;o)
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: A 6 Questions
 

>Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion Mercedes,

My uncle just bought an E500 sedan, it feels small inside, but is otherwise a
pretty nice car.

>or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>

Then you'll lose the AWD. Check out the X3 and X5, they both have very car like
driving characteristics, but give you AWD and more space. I'd reccomend looking
at the 2004 A6 2.7T over the 4.2. The S-Line version has been boasted to 265Hp,
it's actually slightly quicker than the heavier 4.2 (but doesn't give the V8's
seemless power delivery) and is less expensive.

Re: A 6 Questions
 

>Someone at eOpinions opined
>that the V-8 was "sluggish" compared to the 2.7 Turbo?

Neither one of them seemed "sluggish" to me. The 4.2 is slightly heavier than
the 2.7T and it's accleration suffers a bit. But it's got tottally seemlees
power delivery, whereas the 2.7T has a small spike at around 2,200 RPM after
the Turbo is spooled. However, I drove a 2002 2.7T with 250Hp. The 2004 version
has had software revisions both for the engine and the tranny, and it's now up
to 265Hp. It may be a better drive, and IMHO, it's certainly a better value. In
any case, even when eqiupped with the Titronic tranny, neither model will have
any problems laying down 0-60 in the mid to low 6s. There's also the S6, with
the 340Hp 4.2, but it's only avaliable as an Avant and it's more expensive.

Re: A 6 Questions
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TAKNb.45823$6y6.955027@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
> California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
> like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
> handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
>
> However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
> reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion
Mercedes,
> or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>
> What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
> reliability, power, and steering?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
the A6 is a nice car and when you compare it to it's class, like anything it
has it's problems. test drive them all and see which one you like the best.

Re: A 6 Questions
 

On 16 Jan 2004 18:55:00 GMT, davplac@aol.comPirate (Dave LaCourse)
wrote:

>The
>4.2, otoh, came with 255/45 - 18 tires, more than enough to make the car feel
>good.

Can you explain this a little more for me? How do you experience the
difference between 16" and 18" tires?

Re: A 6 Questions
 

xymergy writes:

>On 16 Jan 2004 18:55:00 GMT, davplac@aol.comPirate (Dave LaCourse)
>wrote:
>
>>The
>>4.2, otoh, came with 255/45 - 18 tires, more than enough to make the car
>feel
>>good.
>
>Can you explain this a little more for me? How do you experience the
>difference between 16" and 18" tires?

I'm not sure the 2.5 Turbo *had* 16 inch tires. They were much narrower (maybe
225s) and the aspect ratio was a bigger number (perhaps 50 or 60). The 255s on
the 4.2 took an on-ramp much easier (less/no squeal) that the 2.5T's tires. If
indeed the aspect ratio was higher on the Turbo's tires, that could explain
some of it, or the width (225 vs 255). I'm not sure, but the 225s may have
even been all-season (yuck) tires. And, there is air pressure to consider. I
know the 255s had their proper inflation (I bought the car), whereas the 225s
could have been under-inflated, causing more sidewall give in a high g turn.

The following year, the 2.5 Turbo came with a tire option that, I believe,
included the 18 inch 255s.




Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: A 6 Questions
 

For this kind of "snow", you really don't need an Explorer or any AWD...
None of these three are doing great, reliability-wise. My money would go on
a E Class.


"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TAKNb.45823$6y6.955027@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I have a 99 S 420. I am an occaisional skier, who lives in Northern
> California. I am attracted to the A-6 4.2 because it has the power I
> like, appears to seat four people with good leg and shoulder room, and can
> handle snow from time to time without me having to drive a Ford Explorer.
>
> However, in reading reports, the A-6 doesn't seem to get good points for
> reliability. Other choices for me would be the E - 500 4 Motion
Mercedes,
> or just a standard BMW 5 series.
>
> What can you tell me about long term ownership of an A-6 as far as fun,
> reliability, power, and steering?
>
> Thanks,
> Larry
>
>

4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.

And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability from
a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)

I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
quite yet.

What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car that
will comfortably seat four adults, and why?

Thanks very much,
Larry
LWallerstein@btcommercial.com

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
>
> And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
from
> a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)
>
> I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
> while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
> quite yet.
>
> What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car that
> will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>

Lexus RX300

No brainer.

> Thanks very much,
> Larry
> LWallerstein@btcommercial.com
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Oliver Keating" <oliver.keating@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:4009a7c0_4@news.athenanews.com...
> Lexus RX300
>
> No brainer.

I'd like a standard sedan. Should have mentioned that. I'm done with the
SUV platform.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote...
>
> "Oliver Keating" <oliver.keating@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:4009a7c0_4@news.athenanews.com...
> > Lexus RX300
> >
> > No brainer.
>
> I'd like a standard sedan. Should have mentioned that. I'm done with the
> SUV platform.

Done? Having driven your Explorer as an example? Come on!

I don't think RX is built like good ol' SUVs. RX is not a truck
underneath. It's more like a car.

Nowadays there are more and more what we knew as SUVs built on
their own "platform". Take Infiniti FX (Nissan Murano), Lexus RX,
Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg...

If you really need to get in the snow and not get stuck, a simple
AWD sedan is not going to work. You will need something with a bit
more clearance, like a Volvo XC or a Subaru Outback (am I allowed
to mention Subaru here?). Check out Chrysler Pacifica, maybe.
After all, they are Daimler now...


Victor

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

Larry writes:

<snip>

>What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car that
>will comfortably seat four adults, and why?

I thought we went through this already.

Audi has the most experience with all wheel drive passenger cars. The Quattro
system is bullet-proof. Plus it is one of the safest cars out there.
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

Ever hear of the Audi All-Road? It's a direct competitor to the
Cross-Country, and it isn't a piece of . Chrysler Pacifica?
Jesus, Chrysler hasn't built a decent car since the Hemi 'Cuda, and
even that thing had flimsy gearbox and only went straight.
The RX300 is now the RX330, but it's still boring. Lexus makes a
great, boring product. Hell, they make Honda reliability look bad. I
just can't get past the boring.
One car for all purposes? That's a tough one. For me, it's an old
Audi. Strength, reliability, safety. Wrap my family in high strength
German (galvanized, undercoated) steel and hope for the best. I can
tolerate the bullshit in leau of the benefits. Then again, I can fix
anything that would ever fail. I highly doubt I'd have two V8 winter
cars if I had to pay the repair bills. There is, however, nothing
better in the snow than and old V8 on four studded Hakka's.
Audi still has the best AWD system. I own a million miles worth of
quattro systems without one quattro failure. They were building AWD
automobiles long before the rest of the marques were even paying
attention to marketing. Audi single handedly created the AWD fad of
today. Do you think BMW or MB would have bothered with AWD models if
they were not losing sales to Audi? MB wouldn't even gives us a damn
cup holder until the late 90's! Screw German law, you're losing sales
to Asia over a cupholder!
Audi uses direct mechanical differential lockup when needed, and
also use the brakes as "traction control." Other makers do not.
4-Matic comes closest, but its frequent and costly ups make it
less admirable in my book. The Asian trash can't hold a candle to
quattro's function. They rely on brakes alone to handle power
distribution. Open diffs are cheap. Brakes are reactive, not
proactive.
As for the 420, Mercedes quality is nothing like the old days. I
worked for MB back in the late 80's, and they had some excellent
vehicles. The 126 sedans were excellent, strong, and crashed like
nobody's business. Now they seem to be over-complicated, slapped
together budles of woe. And that's just the German made ones. The US
built one has turned out to be a joke.


On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:14:56 GMT, "Victor Bazarov"
<v.Abazarov@comAcast.net> wrote:

>"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote...
>>
>> "Oliver Keating" <oliver.keating@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:4009a7c0_4@news.athenanews.com...
>> > Lexus RX300
>> >
>> > No brainer.
>>
>> I'd like a standard sedan. Should have mentioned that. I'm done with the
>> SUV platform.
>
>Done? Having driven your Explorer as an example? Come on!
>
>I don't think RX is built like good ol' SUVs. RX is not a truck
>underneath. It's more like a car.
>
>Nowadays there are more and more what we knew as SUVs built on
>their own "platform". Take Infiniti FX (Nissan Murano), Lexus RX,
>Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg...
>
>If you really need to get in the snow and not get stuck, a simple
>AWD sedan is not going to work. You will need something with a bit
>more clearance, like a Volvo XC or a Subaru Outback (am I allowed
>to mention Subaru here?). Check out Chrysler Pacifica, maybe.
>After all, they are Daimler now...
>
>
>Victor
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

I would recommend a Range Rover.
They have an outstanding rep, and have the luxury needed.
I had a 2.5 diesel, it was great. Mind you if your in the US, I would go for
the 4.HSE. Here in the UK, fuel prices are crippling :(

Bhoona

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
>
> And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
from
> a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)
>
> I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
> while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
> quite yet.
>
> What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car that
> will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Larry
> LWallerstein@btcommercial.com
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

If you insist on "most reliable", avoid German cars then.

Possible alternatives.
- Lexus RX330
- Acura MDX
- Infiniti G35X.

I'd still take an E-Class. :o)))) Or an Acura TL for 20K$ less.


"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
>
> And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
from
> a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)
>
> I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
> while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
> quite yet.
>
> What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car that
> will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Larry
> LWallerstein@btcommercial.com
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

Here in the US, we get the 4.4 BMW driveline only.
At 72K - 84K, that would be about my last choice. While the new Range
may be an overinflated X5, and a wonderful truck, there's plenty of
British left in it to make it anything but reliable....


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:08:25 -0000, "Bhoona" <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>I would recommend a Range Rover.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

That new Infiniti G35x looks intriguing, nice engine and sounds like a
really good AWD system. Should be reliable and a great value all-around.
As you're looking to keep it for 10+ years re-sale value isn't really an
issue (which would be my one minor concern with getting an Infiniti).

"Saintor" <saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_2mOb.132030$ld7.2182855@wagner.videotron.net ...
> If you insist on "most reliable", avoid German cars then.
>
> Possible alternatives.
> - Lexus RX330
> - Acura MDX
> - Infiniti G35X.
>
> I'd still take an E-Class. :o)))) Or an Acura TL for 20K$ less.
>
>
> "REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> > I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> > drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
> >
> > And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
> from
> > a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)
> >
> > I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for
a
> > while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> > reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but
not
> > quite yet.
> >
> > What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car
that
> > will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
> >
> > Thanks very much,
> > Larry
> > LWallerstein@btcommercial.com
> >
> >
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
news:20040117173939.24764.00000212@mb-m16.aol.com...
> Larry writes:
>
> <snip>
>
> >What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car
that
> >will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>
> I thought we went through this already.
>
> Audi has the most experience with all wheel drive passenger cars. The
Quattro
> system is bullet-proof. Plus it is one of the safest cars out there.
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Yes, I wanted to expand it to other newsgroups and get opinions from other
marque owners. The net result is that they are ignoring the fact that I
want a CAR, e.g. sedan, and are getting into the SUV formats. So I'm not
sure I gained any ground.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

You guys are missing the point. The original poster was looking for an awd
*car*, like in *sedan*. He doesn't want to go the SUV route. He wants a car
that will seat four adults comfortably and has awd. The obvious choice is the
best awd system out there - Audi, and the car would be the A6 or the A8, hands
down the two best ald sedans in the world. Period!
Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
>
> And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
from
> a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)

>I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
>while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
>reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
>quite yet.


Hi Larry.

About two Months ago I was in the exact same boat as you. I wanted four
wheel drive combined with quality and reliability. I started out looking at
the Japanese brands, and found them to be a nice product for the price, but
not built nearly as sturdy as the German cars I test drove soon after. I
ended up narrowing my choice down to these three: Audi A6, Mercedes E-320
and BMW 5 series.
Let me quick give you a quick synopsis of each one.

A6 2.7T Quattro:

I was impressed with this car. I test drove a 2000 with only 31,000 miles
and it was an Audi certified vehicle which meant it came with a two year
extended bumper to bumper warranty after the manufactures warranty ran out.
It was loaded with all the bells and whistles, GPS navigation systems,
Quattro AWD, power everything, 12 airbags, and more creature comforts than I
can fit in an essay. The twin turbo 2.7 liter six cylinder engine made great
power, with the torque peak at only 1800 rpm the car was very tractable and
passing was a breeze with the silky smooth power delivery....but at the same
time I've never felt a engine so willing to soar right up to the redline,
and it felt very at home at the higher engine speeds. The ride was very
good, offering a fine balance between sport and touring. I found the
handling with the Quattro to be very reassuring, predictable, and
responsive. I was so impressed with the car I almost made a deal that day.

BMW 528i:

I know this isn't AWD, or even offered with it, so I'll make it brief. Very
much a drivers car: crisp handling, smooth power, harder suspension, and
excellent breaks. It fit like a glove from the first second I sat it in.
Build quality felt very solid but didn't have the goodies like the Audi. The
absence of an AWD system made me pass on this one, but a masterpiece
nonetheless.

Mercedes E320 4MATIC:

Funny enough the car that I thought I would like the least was the one I
ended up buying. Everything about this car felt right from the start. You
have A Mercedes so I'm sure you'll be able to relate with a lot of the stuff
I am going to say about it. Just don't confuse the E-CLASS with your much
larger S-Class. The E-Class can hold its own right up there with the best
from BMW and Audi. I also drove a E430 with the hotrod 4.3 V8 shoehorned in,
and the power combined with smoothness is something I've never experienced
in another car before, it was also as quiet as a snowflake (same can be said
for the 3.2 I-6). I'm simply amazed that Mercedes can make the E320 ride so
smooth, yet handle so well. It looks huge from the outside, yet when your
driving it, you would never guess the car weighs 3500lbs and is 10 feet
long. I've driven it through a pretty severe snowstorm already and the
4MATIC system worked wonders, that along with the 40 other kinds of traction
control systems that aid the 4MATIC. I seriously think it would be almost
impossible to slide off the road with the 4MATIC. When the road was clear, I
tried my best to get the car sideways or to slide unfavorably and I couldn't
phase it. To top it all off, the E320 is built like a band vault, has
industry leading quality/reliability, its fun to drive, safe and offers more
accessories than you could ever need.

So please...before you make a decision, give the A6 and E-CLASS the once
over...I think you will prefer them over any Japanese or domestic brand for
not only the quality, but the superior engineering and creature comforts. If
you plan to keep the car for a long time (which you said you did) than
again, German cars are built for the long haul. I have owned 20+ year old
Porsches and BMWs and even at that age they were still looking and driving
like new, likewise I've never been able to keep a Japanese car for longer
than +- 10-12 years because any older than that and they really begin to
start showing their age with rust and interiors that literally disintegrate.
Either way you go, good luck with your next car. Let us know what you
decide.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Dan Manning" <DM@ourworld.net> wrote in message
news:budbr3$2qn$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
>
> "REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> > I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> > drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
> >
> > And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
> from
> > a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for me)
>
> >I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
> >while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> >reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
> >quite yet.
>
>
> Hi Larry.
>
> About two Months ago I was in the exact same boat as you. I wanted four
> wheel drive combined with quality and reliability. I started out looking
at
> the Japanese brands, and found them to be a nice product for the price,
but
> not built nearly as sturdy as the German cars I test drove soon after. I
> ended up narrowing my choice down to these three: Audi A6, Mercedes E-320
> and BMW 5 series.
> Let me quick give you a quick synopsis of each one.
>
> A6 2.7T Quattro:
>
> I was impressed with this car. I test drove a 2000 with only 31,000 miles
> and it was an Audi certified vehicle which meant it came with a two year
> extended bumper to bumper warranty after the manufactures warranty ran
out.
> It was loaded with all the bells and whistles, GPS navigation systems,
> Quattro AWD, power everything, 12 airbags, and more creature comforts than
I
> can fit in an essay. The twin turbo 2.7 liter six cylinder engine made
great
> power, with the torque peak at only 1800 rpm the car was very tractable
and
> passing was a breeze with the silky smooth power delivery....but at the
same
> time I've never felt a engine so willing to soar right up to the redline,
> and it felt very at home at the higher engine speeds. The ride was very
> good, offering a fine balance between sport and touring. I found the
> handling with the Quattro to be very reassuring, predictable, and
> responsive. I was so impressed with the car I almost made a deal that day.
>
> BMW 528i:
>
> I know this isn't AWD, or even offered with it, so I'll make it brief.
Very
> much a drivers car: crisp handling, smooth power, harder suspension, and
> excellent breaks. It fit like a glove from the first second I sat it in.
> Build quality felt very solid but didn't have the goodies like the Audi.
The
> absence of an AWD system made me pass on this one, but a masterpiece
> nonetheless.
>
> Mercedes E320 4MATIC:
>
> Funny enough the car that I thought I would like the least was the one I
> ended up buying. Everything about this car felt right from the start. You
> have A Mercedes so I'm sure you'll be able to relate with a lot of the
stuff
> I am going to say about it. Just don't confuse the E-CLASS with your much
> larger S-Class. The E-Class can hold its own right up there with the best
> from BMW and Audi. I also drove a E430 with the hotrod 4.3 V8 shoehorned
in,
> and the power combined with smoothness is something I've never experienced
> in another car before, it was also as quiet as a snowflake (same can be
said
> for the 3.2 I-6). I'm simply amazed that Mercedes can make the E320 ride
so
> smooth, yet handle so well. It looks huge from the outside, yet when your
> driving it, you would never guess the car weighs 3500lbs and is 10 feet
> long. I've driven it through a pretty severe snowstorm already and the
> 4MATIC system worked wonders, that along with the 40 other kinds of
traction
> control systems that aid the 4MATIC. I seriously think it would be almost
> impossible to slide off the road with the 4MATIC. When the road was clear,
I
> tried my best to get the car sideways or to slide unfavorably and I
couldn't
> phase it. To top it all off, the E320 is built like a band vault, has
> industry leading quality/reliability, its fun to drive, safe and offers
more
> accessories than you could ever need.
>
> So please...before you make a decision, give the A6 and E-CLASS the once
> over...I think you will prefer them over any Japanese or domestic brand
for
> not only the quality, but the superior engineering and creature comforts.
If
> you plan to keep the car for a long time (which you said you did) than
> again, German cars are built for the long haul. I have owned 20+ year old
> Porsches and BMWs and even at that age they were still looking and driving
> like new, likewise I've never been able to keep a Japanese car for longer
> than +- 10-12 years because any older than that and they really begin to
> start showing their age with rust and interiors that literally
disintegrate.
> Either way you go, good luck with your next car. Let us know what you
> decide.

Thanks, Dan. This was exactly the type of comparisons I was hoping to get
from owners of the different marques. Very informative. I'll be test
riding both of them, but that doesn't answer the question of reliability.
That's where real world experience is appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote >
> Thanks, Dan. This was exactly the type of comparisons I was hoping
to get
> from owners of the different marques. Very informative. I'll be
test
> riding both of them, but that doesn't answer the question of
reliability.
> That's where real world experience is appreciated.
> >

I have a friend who has completed 180,000 trouble free miles within
two years in a diesel Audi Allroad [yes really]. I once had an Audi 90
quattro and didn't like it much and the parts were expensive. Also the
depreciation was horrendous here in the UK at that time.
I have owned a ML270 which was fine over two years with only poorly
aligned trim to worry about.
Presently own a BMW X5 which has done 15000 miles trouble free apart
from sluggish driver seat belt retraction.
Plenty of Volvo XC90's around here, which are well liked. I would not
imagine that they are the most reliable or hassle free cars though.

Huw


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 27/12/03

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

JPF <frickjphasgrownwearyofspam@noemail.net> wrote:
> Ever hear of the Audi All-Road? It's a direct competitor to the

excellent car. S6 Avant is of course even nicer, but costs twice as
much and isn't exported to US.

...
> The RX300 is now the RX330, but it's still boring. Lexus makes a
>great, boring product. Hell, they make Honda reliability look bad. I

it's like a SUV for the ladies IMO :)

...
>cup holder until the late 90's! Screw German law, you're losing sales
>to Asia over a cupholder!

I still fail to understand why the cupholders are such a major
headache in the US...

...
>4-Matic comes closest, but its frequent and costly ups make it
>less admirable in my book. The Asian trash can't hold a candle to

4-matic is nearly RWD in 'normal' conditions. when rear wheels start
slipping, front wheels get more torque. The implementation is much
better than the typical part-time 4WD SUV things, but still not that
convincing at least to me.

BMW had an excellent AWD in 325/525ix, quite close to Audi with two
viscous couplings and no overly complicated crap (a la MB
ProbleMatic). The best part: power distribution is between rear and
front is 63/37 (because when accelerating, rear axle gets more weight
& traction). This is IMO nicer than Quattro which I find annoyingly
FWD due to tendency to understeer. I have no experience on the newer
BMW xi models though.

--
harri
-95 525ixTA




--
o Harri Holopainen
o Hybrid Graphics Ltd.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<RzqOb.28668$VS4.891977@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> "Dan Manning" <DM@ourworld.net> wrote in message
> news:budbr3$2qn$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > "REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease car.
> > > I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4 wheel
> > > drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
> > >
> > > And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
> > > from a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles
> > >I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others for a
> > >while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about the
> > >reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese, but not
> > >quite yet.
> > >What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel
> > >drive car that will comfortably seat four adults, and why?

---- lots of good info snipped---

> >> Thanks, Dan. This was exactly the type of comparisons I was hoping to get
> from owners of the different marques. Very informative. I'll be test
> riding both of them, but that doesn't answer the question of reliability.
> That's where real world experience is appreciated.

Some of the vehicles mentioned previously and below are AWD rather
than 4wd. Some vehicles listed as AWD are actually "on-demand" AWD
rather than full time AWD. Volvo and Mercedes have on-demand AWD
systems, where the "other" two wheels get power only when the default
drive wheels begin to slip. Audi and Volkswagen (and Subaru) have
full-time AWD systems. Not sure about the other Japanese marques.

Japanese cars are known as being generally more reliable than
Europeans or Americans. Problem is, that the Japanese have just
recently discovered AWD in sedans, with one exception, that nobody
mentioned. That is Subaru. However, noone mentioned them probably
because even the largest Subarus will not comfortably seat an adult in
the back seat.

The recent "discoveries" of AWD for Japanese sedans include those by
Infiniti and Lexus. I have seen various surveys placing Infiniti or
Lexus as the most reliable marque in general. Even Ford and Chrysler
will reportedly offer large AWD sedans in 2004 or 2005. I wouldn't
trust their reliability as far as I could throw them. For all of
these, there are always the caveats about buying a model in its first
year of existence.

That leaves you with Audi A6 class and A8 class, and Mercedes E and
S-classes and the VW Phaeton, also not mentioned above. Volvo has AWD
in the S80 sedan, which should fit adults in the back seat.

The Audis are probably slightly more reliable than the Mercedes, but
neither Audi nor Mercedes is very reliable in the entire spectrum of
cars out there. Volvo has had AWD in the S60 for a few years, and in
wagons for longer, but there are so few out there that I really don't
know much about reliability. The VW Phaeton is an unknown quantity,
but it will likely be similar to the Audis as for reliability. But I
think that $65-80k for a VW will be a psychological stretch for most
folks.

I own 2 Audis, a '99 A4 Quattro and a 2000 A6 Quattro. I got the A4
at 43k, now has 76k. Got the A6 at 43k, now has 60k. Both with
Assured warranty. Had to replace a bearing in the A4, covered under
warranty. Had to replace a control arm in the A6, covered under
warranty. Not sure if that means they are "reliable" or not. Both
cars are rock solid, and of course, great in the snow. The cars with
AWD, of course weigh more than their 2wd counterparts. I figure, if
you're carrying that weight around, you'd might as well use it.
Mercedes and Volvo are default 2wd systems, with the 2nd axle only
activating "as needed." I like awd in summer & winter. If you only
hit the snow once per year, then that distinction btw full-time and
on-demand AWD probably doesn't matter to you.

Many folks out there drive audis for 150k-200k-250k miles and love
them. In general, they have their problems, but the Quattro system
has 23 years of history and development behind it. The word
"bulletproof" is often used, at leat for the Quattro systems, and for
some of the engines.
I am 6 feet tall, and with the front seat adjusted for me, I can sit
comfortably 'behind myself' in the A6. The A8 has several more inches
of room than the A6. If you want the most reliable marque out there,
go for Lexus or Infiniti. If you want the most reliable AWD *sedan*
that fits 4 adults comfortably, then go for an Audi Quattro.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Avantium" <avantium@munich.com> wrote in message
news:ad68da8c.0401180834.e742b38@posting.google.co m...
> Japanese cars are known as being generally more reliable than
> Europeans or Americans. Problem is, that the Japanese have just
> recently discovered AWD in sedans, with one exception, that nobody
> mentioned. That is Subaru. However, noone mentioned them probably
> because even the largest Subarus will not comfortably seat an adult in
> the back seat.

> I am 6 feet tall, and with the front seat adjusted for me, I can sit
> comfortably 'behind myself' in the A6. The A8 has several more inches
> of room than the A6. If you want the most reliable marque out there,
> go for Lexus or Infiniti. If you want the most reliable AWD *sedan*
> that fits 4 adults comfortably, then go for an Audi Quattro.

I am also 6'0" tall, and recently "sat behind myself" in a 2004 Subaru
Impreza, and it was fine. A lot better than my iX. Headroom in the front
was as good or better than any of the bimmers (E24, E30, E32, E34, E36)
I've spent time in, the controls were great, the interior was functional and
attractive.

The Impreza is probably the closest thing on today's market to my trusty
325iX -- 200 pounds heavier, 3 horsepower less, full time AWD with viscous
couplings, 2.5L motor, 5spd manual, 4-door, etc.

In nasty weather, the iX is utterly unflappable and unstoppable. At
316,000km it does take some maintenance, but I can't bear to part with it,
so I'll give it what it needs. It's never stranded me. It's a blast in the
dry, the wet, and the snow. It's got character and great road manners.

If I was forced to replace it I think I'd get an Impreza TS. About $23k CDN
vs the 325xi at $43k CDN. Subaru has been doing AWD in a logical way for 30
years. The cheapest used Xi on the market right now is around $25k CDN and
is saddled with all manner of electronic gagetry and driving "aids".

I'll lament the passing of my iX if and when the day comes. There aren't
many cars out there to replace it with.

-Russ.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
news:20040118002123.26490.00000165@mb-m07.aol.com...
> You guys are missing the point. The original poster was looking for an
awd
> *car*, like in *sedan*. He doesn't want to go the SUV route. He wants a
car
> that will seat four adults comfortably and has awd. The obvious choice is
the
> best awd system out there - Audi, and the car would be the A6 or the A8,
hands
> down the two best ald sedans in the world. Period!
> Dave

Are we allowed to disagre? ;o)

There is also the S80 AWD and Pacifica.

Dont' forget that in a SUV, you are 30% more protected than in a comparable
car (except large ones), according to stats from IIRS. 30% less injuries,
deaths and collisions, according to them.

I am sure that in California, you can live without AWD even if it would be
nice to have in 2% of the conditions. Your call.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

My girlfriend has a 99 Audi A4 Quatro. It is the best car i've ever
driven in winter conditions, its ride is more comfortable than any
ford explorer. I've never driven or even riden in a Sabb but they are
manufactured in Northern Europe and everytime i see them advertised
they are going through some arctic environment.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

> I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease
> car. I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the
> 4 wheel drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the
> winter.
>
> And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
> from a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles
> for me)
>
> I've been reading each of these newsgroups, as well as a few others
> for a while, and in each newsgroup there are ongoing complaints about
> the reliability of each marque. I'm ALMOST willing to go Japanese,
> but not quite yet.
>
> What are your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car
> that will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Larry
> LWallerstein@btcommercial.com
>
>

A base-equipted Mercedes E-class 4-Matic without the unecessary and trouble
laden bell's and whistles is as good a car as you are likely to find!

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RzqOb.28668$VS4.891977@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Thanks, Dan. This was exactly the type of comparisons I was hoping to
get
> from owners of the different marques. Very informative. I'll be test
> riding both of them, but that doesn't answer the question of reliability.
> That's where real world experience is appreciated.
> >

I did plenty of research on both the cars. The Mercedes was constantly
ranked "tops in the industry" as far as reliability, and all the E-CLASS
owners I spoke with said their cars never broke and that they were the best
vehicle they've ever owned. The Audi also did well, their quality and
reliability has come a long way since the 'dark days'. I talked to one owner
who said "All I have to do is change the oil and drive" and another said it
was simply a fantastic car that gave him no trouble. This may not be the
answer your looking for, but there are also plenty of sources out there for
reliability/quality ratings. Another factor which swayed me to the German
brands is safety. BMW, Mercedes and Audi are notorious for building the
safest cars with the best innovative safety features that could save your
life or keep you from getting seriously injured in a crash. That means a lot
to me, especially when I have my kids in the car. Let us know what you drive
and what you think. Good Luck.

>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 12:31:21 -0500, "Saintor"
<saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote:
>Dont' forget that in a SUV, you are 30% more protected than in a comparable
>car (except large ones), according to stats from IIRS. 30% less injuries,
>deaths and collisions, according to them.

There's a recent New Yorker article talking about this issue, actually
(can't remember the issue, but I str Jan. 5). Basically, SUV drivers
are more likely to get into accidents for two reasons: stupid driving
because of arrogance and erroneous assumptions about their vehicles
and inability to get out of trouble. Sedan drivers know their limits
better and are able to nimbly avoid trouble. As a result, SUV drivers
seem to create more accidents and actually aren't that much safer.

I'll stick to my 98.5 A4 Quattro; it's driving great on snow tires
right now in western New York.

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

Saintor writes:

>"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
>news:20040118002123.26490.00000165@mb-m07.aol.com...
>> You guys are missing the point. The original poster was looking for an
>awd
>> *car*, like in *sedan*. He doesn't want to go the SUV route. He wants a
>car
>> that will seat four adults comfortably and has awd. The obvious choice is
>the
>> best awd system out there - Audi, and the car would be the A6 or the A8,
>hands
>> down the two best ald sedans in the world. Period!
>> Dave
>
>Are we allowed to disagre? ;o)

Sure, you can disagre <sic>, but he is *not* looking for an SUV. He *has* an
SUV.

Dave

http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
news:20040118170319.17130.00000282@mb-m03.aol.com...
> Saintor writes:
>
> >"Dave LaCourse" <davplac@aol.comPirate> wrote in message
> >news:20040118002123.26490.00000165@mb-m07.aol.com...
> >> You guys are missing the point. The original poster was looking for an
> >awd
> >> *car*, like in *sedan*. He doesn't want to go the SUV route. He wants
a
> >car
> >> that will seat four adults comfortably and has awd. The obvious choice
is
> >the
> >> best awd system out there - Audi, and the car would be the A6 or the
A8,
> >hands
> >> down the two best ald sedans in the world. Period!
> >> Dave
> >
> >Are we allowed to disagre? ;o)
>
> Sure, you can disagre <sic>, but he is *not* looking for an SUV. He *has*
an
> SUV.
>
> Dave
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/davplac/myhomepage/index.html


Correctomundo. My 02 Ford Explorer does anything I would want in an SUV.
I actually don't NEED any other car with an S420 and a Ford Explorer.
What I'd LIKE is to emulate the quality and impression value of my
passenger vehicle, and have my 4 wheel drive in my passenger vehicle. Then
I'd get rid of the Explorer, consolidate insurance coverage, and so on. I
don't think the Subaru will work, as I want to use this for my "dress up"
work car, although I think Subaru has proven itself better than anyone in
the all wheel drive passenger vehicle department over the years, and you do
get the most bang for the buck.

I think I'm down to the A-6 with the 4.2 liter engine, the Mercedes E 500 4
Matic as choices. The Audi appears to be wider, and seems to have more
rear seat room, and a longer history in all wheel drive. Neither seem
bulletproof in reliability, but I don't like the SUV platform, and I'm not
seeing a sedan from the Japanese in a four wheel drive format, unless I
missed something.

If I don't go with 4 wheel drive, then I can just keep my 99 S420. It does
everything else I want. Although I do worry about reliability on my S Class
as well, particularly since it is out of warranty.

>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

"REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:RzqOb.28668$VS4.891977@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Dan Manning" <DM@ourworld.net> wrote in message
> news:budbr3$2qn$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> >
> > "REInvestments" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:mYgOb.26659$VS4.828669@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > I currently have both an S420 (for sale) and a Ford Explorer lease
car.
> > > I'd like to consolidate to one vehicle since my only use for the 4
wheel
> > > drive is a once per month ski excursion in the snow during the winter.
> > >
> > > And I'm at the point where I'd like to get dead bang great reliability
> > from
> > > a vehicle over a 10 year ownership (which is about 140,000 miles for
me)

<snip>

> Thanks, Dan. This was exactly the type of comparisons I was hoping to
get
> from owners of the different marques. Very informative. I'll be test
> riding both of them, but that doesn't answer the question of reliability.
> That's where real world experience is appreciated.

Hint: try and find a German taxi that isn't a Merc. You certainly /can/ find
them, but you have to look. Quite hard.

That said (and in no way intended as an insult), according to some German
friends, that reputation has taken quite a bashing since the DC merger -
some of the US-derived designs and manufacturing processes don't seem to be
quite a bullet-proof as Merc drivers were used to.

One, I know, was planning to go down the Audi route unless his pet salesman
could lease him an AMG for the price of a diesel.

Don't know what happened in the end, though. He's driven Mercs for at least
10 years and finds BMWs too "common" around Frankfurt. A bit snobbish,
methinks, but he doesn't "do" corners.. just scary speeds in scary
conditions on the Autobahn. When I get a lift, I prefer to sit in the back..
can't see the road that way :o\

And just in case I'm about to be accused of marque bias.. the BMW MINI
sources a GM-derived engine from (IIRC) Brazil, my TT is really built in
Hungary and the (2WD) Nissan 350Z has the heart of a Renault Vel Satis..
yes, /that/ one.

HTH

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

>
>I think I'm down to the A-6 with the 4.2 liter engine, the Mercedes E 500 4
>Matic as choices. The Audi appears to be wider, and seems to have more
>rear seat room, and a longer history in all wheel drive. Neither seem
>bulletproof in reliability, but I don't like the SUV platform, and I'm not
>seeing a sedan from the Japanese in a four wheel drive format, unless I
>missed something.
>


Infinity G35X
new Lexus GS (not out just yet).

-
--
Curtis Newton
cnewton@remove-me.akaMail.com
http://surf.to/cnewton
<delete remove-me. to respond to email>
ICQ: 4899169

Re: 4 wheel drive questions/reliability of vehicles
 

your recommendations for the most reliable 4 wheel drive car
> that will comfortably seat four adults, and why?
>
> Thanks very much,
> Larry
> LWallerstein@btcommercial.com

I got 220Kmiles out of my 88 80 Quattro relatively trouble free. The
most I did was suspension rebuilds. Never was stranded.
I like the A6 Q.
>
>