Dano

"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> schreef in bericht
newsql1g05hbq674deuc86ugk8bub3m4j89gh@4ax.com...
> R@L schrieb:
>
> >Hear hear!
>
> >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in
the
> >rear.
> >Now I know there's at least someone else.
>
> Can you elaborate?
>
> Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> just roll along. What's the error here?

I believe it was when you're breaking into a slippery corner, it's for the
average driver *easier* to escape from an understear (rear-tyres ok) then
from an oversteer-situation (rear-tyres too 'slick').

The way the car goes with the least grip on the front will go in a straight
line, when the least grip is on the back, the car will spin.

--
Dan

R@L

"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote in message
newsql1g05hbq674deuc86ugk8bub3m4j89gh@4ax.com...
> R@L schrieb:
>
> >Hear hear!
>
> >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in
the
> >rear.
> >Now I know there's at least someone else.
>
> Can you elaborate?
>
> Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> just roll along. What's the error here?
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang


Understeer is corrected easily by releasing the throttel.
Oversteer is difficult to cope with and needs a lot of space to correct.
So in corners you prefer understeer and put the worn tires in front -it's
always better not to use worn tires.

Ronald



> --
> * Audi A6 Avant TDI *
> * reply to wolfgang dot pawlinetz at chello dot at *

R@L

"Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote in message
newsql1g05hbq674deuc86ugk8bub3m4j89gh@4ax.com...
> R@L schrieb:
>
> >Hear hear!
>
> >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in
the
> >rear.
> >Now I know there's at least someone else.
>
> Can you elaborate?
>
> Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> just roll along. What's the error here?
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang


Understeer is corrected easily by releasing the throttel.
Oversteer is difficult to cope with and needs a lot of space to correct.
So in corners you prefer understeer and put the worn tires in front -it's
always better not to use worn tires.

Ronald



> --
> * Audi A6 Avant TDI *
> * reply to wolfgang dot pawlinetz at chello dot at *

Doug Ramage

"R@L" <reply@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:381d4$4102639a$513b7575$14469@news2.zonnet.nl ...
>
>
>
> "Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote in message
> newsql1g05hbq674deuc86ugk8bub3m4j89gh@4ax.com...
> > R@L schrieb:
> >
> > >Hear hear!
> >
> > >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in
> the
> > >rear.
> > >Now I know there's at least someone else.
> >
> > Can you elaborate?
> >
> > Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> > driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> > just roll along. What's the error here?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Wolfgang
>
>
> Understeer is corrected easily by releasing the throttel.
> Oversteer is difficult to cope with and needs a lot of space to correct.
> So in corners you prefer understeer and put the worn tires in front -it's
> always better not to use worn tires.
>
> Ronald
>
>
>
> > --

Don't the tyre manufacturers themselves recommend that the tyres with most
tread go on the rear - to protect themselves from liability?
--
Doug Ramage

[watch spam trap]

Doug Ramage

"R@L" <reply@usenet.com> wrote in message
news:381d4$4102639a$513b7575$14469@news2.zonnet.nl ...
>
>
>
> "Wolfgang Pawlinetz" <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote in message
> newsql1g05hbq674deuc86ugk8bub3m4j89gh@4ax.com...
> > R@L schrieb:
> >
> > >Hear hear!
> >
> > >I thought I was they only one knowing that the best tires should be in
> the
> > >rear.
> > >Now I know there's at least someone else.
> >
> > Can you elaborate?
> >
> > Why would it be better to have less friction in the front on a front
> > driven car? That supports understeering, doesn't it? The rear wheels
> > just roll along. What's the error here?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Wolfgang
>
>
> Understeer is corrected easily by releasing the throttel.
> Oversteer is difficult to cope with and needs a lot of space to correct.
> So in corners you prefer understeer and put the worn tires in front -it's
> always better not to use worn tires.
>
> Ronald
>
>
>
> > --

Don't the tyre manufacturers themselves recommend that the tyres with most
tread go on the rear - to protect themselves from liability?
--
Doug Ramage

[watch spam trap]

Jay Somerset

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:54:11 +0200, Wolfgang Pawlinetz <w.pawlinetz@a1.net>
wrote:

> Jay Somerset schrieb:
>
> >If you are able to brake in a completely straight line, on a smooth surface,
> >with absolutely constant coefficient of friction, then the rear tires will
> >probably stay in line behind the front. Deviations from this ideal condition
> >will require some quick reaction on the steering to keep the car straight.
> >
> >However, if you hit a patch on the road with appreciably different traction,
> >or if the right wheels encounter a different situation thasn the left, even
> >fast steering reaction may not be enough to prevent the rear from coming
> >around. Or if you are turning and still have to slow down (bad planning;
> >unexpected obstacle, etc.)
>
> This is entirely true for a non ABS car. But wrong for an Audi (or any
> other car wit ABS). BTDT myself more then once. We trained that on a 3
> day handling/track training class and with the ABS on a full power
> brake with the left side on perfect race tarmac and the right side on
> deliberately slippery surface (a special surface which gets slippery
> like ice when wettened) it only required the slightest bit of
> countersteer, and I mean just a bit, to keep a straight line. All cars
> without ABS went off the track unless the would open the brakes,
> re-align and hit the brakes hard again.

I agree that ABS does make the problem largely go away, at least with
braking, but on cornering the traction system is not as efficient in
counteracting differential front/rear grip. if there is a marked difference
in tread depth, I would put the better tires on the rear, even with AWD.
>
> >A slight bit of understeer is not bad -- you just have to approach your
> >corners a bit differently than if you had oversteer. A lot of understeer is
> >not good -- neither is a lot of oversteer.
>
> Yep. Agreed.
>
> >While a "expert driver" might get away with an oversteering car, the
> >presciption to put the better tires on the rear is proper for "the average
> >driver" and certainly safest for those with no clue at all.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang

Jay Somerset

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:54:11 +0200, Wolfgang Pawlinetz <w.pawlinetz@a1.net>
wrote:

> Jay Somerset schrieb:
>
> >If you are able to brake in a completely straight line, on a smooth surface,
> >with absolutely constant coefficient of friction, then the rear tires will
> >probably stay in line behind the front. Deviations from this ideal condition
> >will require some quick reaction on the steering to keep the car straight.
> >
> >However, if you hit a patch on the road with appreciably different traction,
> >or if the right wheels encounter a different situation thasn the left, even
> >fast steering reaction may not be enough to prevent the rear from coming
> >around. Or if you are turning and still have to slow down (bad planning;
> >unexpected obstacle, etc.)
>
> This is entirely true for a non ABS car. But wrong for an Audi (or any
> other car wit ABS). BTDT myself more then once. We trained that on a 3
> day handling/track training class and with the ABS on a full power
> brake with the left side on perfect race tarmac and the right side on
> deliberately slippery surface (a special surface which gets slippery
> like ice when wettened) it only required the slightest bit of
> countersteer, and I mean just a bit, to keep a straight line. All cars
> without ABS went off the track unless the would open the brakes,
> re-align and hit the brakes hard again.

I agree that ABS does make the problem largely go away, at least with
braking, but on cornering the traction system is not as efficient in
counteracting differential front/rear grip. if there is a marked difference
in tread depth, I would put the better tires on the rear, even with AWD.
>
> >A slight bit of understeer is not bad -- you just have to approach your
> >corners a bit differently than if you had oversteer. A lot of understeer is
> >not good -- neither is a lot of oversteer.
>
> Yep. Agreed.
>
> >While a "expert driver" might get away with an oversteering car, the
> >presciption to put the better tires on the rear is proper for "the average
> >driver" and certainly safest for those with no clue at all.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang