Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

www. ringer-racing. com /product.sc?productId=57&categoryId=31

Looking like it is the right pick if i were to go with twin turbo, but i need facts:
If its gonna fit
What will fit
Whether or not i can turbo or supercharge the car for less than 5000$
What motor upgrades would i need to withstand twin turbos
Anything the would be involved in putting a supercharger, turbo or twin turbos in it.

Thank you

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

The only option for under 5k would be the the PES kit, used. Putting a single or twin turbo system on the 4.2 is a more difficult task, and it will cost an arm and a leg

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Alright, thanks guys, I've been looking for a supercharger or turbo for ages, i'll definately look this up and look into installing one... What kind of motor upgrades should i get to support it, i know fiberglass headers would help, anything else important? Should i replace seals with brand new ones, and what should i do as fast as intake and spark plugs?

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

just FYI...

PES supercharger is really adding only about 60-80hp over stock
VF Engineering supercharger not much different

Both use the Eaton M90, which is drastically undersized for our engines and their CFM capabilities. Basically they take about 30-40hp to run, and don't add much over stock

Don't get me wrong...they'll make you faster, but they're certainly not worth $10,000.

Do yourselves a favour and get good bolt ons. Half the cost, same performance.

• x-pipe good catback..2.5" with perforated core mufflers (like Fast Intentions)
• gutted OEM precats in your stock downpipes, or 2.5" Fast Intentions downpipes
• JHM 93 tune
• a few lightweight bits like JHM LW crank pulley, JHM LW flywheel, lighter wheels, JHM big brake kit + LW rear rotors (which drops about 40 lbs of unsprung weight, mostly rotating mass)
• JHM intake spacers to keep things cool and rocking

All that stuff will give you supercharger performance. I know a few guys with this setup running 12.8-13.2 quarter mile times at 106-108mph...i.e. stock RS4 1/4 mile times. Throw in JHM longtube headers ($2500 though) and you're adding a solid amount of torque to the equation.

Yes, lots of this stuff is JHM. That's because a) they're good and b) they've decided to focus on the 4.2 40 valve chain driven engine in the B6/7 S4. That's good news for us.

Here's a sampling

YouTube - JHM FIRST 12 second pass with a 2005 B6 S4 and a 12.97ET @109.1mph. FASTEST ALL MOTOR B6/B7 S4 V8


I've recently installed JHM intake spacers, FI 2.5" x-pipe, piggie pipes, JHM 93 tune, so if anyone wants to check that out, let me know. I took my car to VAST in Detroit. They are working with JHM pretty closely, so that's a great option for guys here who don't want to do their own work.

JHM also is building a twin turbo kit for our cars including forged internals (rods and pistons already to go). They're looking to add significant power with this kit, but don't be thinking $5000...more like $12-15k.

They do have a nitrous option...100 or 125 shot. Kit is well under $5000. Their JHM in house car with 100 shot of nitrous ran 12.4 @ 117mph :O

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

2 GT35 might be too big for the 4.2l.
Essentially each turbo will be fed from half the engine 2.1l.
This 2.1l would be better served with a GT28. as a daily driver...
As for single turbo you would need bigger than GT35.
Look at what the turbo Ford Mustangs run, and maybe pick something a little lower.

The 4.2l engine have gobs of potentiel but, it's always a question of "how much are you willing to pay to play?"

I think a bi-Turbo GT28 kit for the 4.2l would be well within reach.
With aproper built bottom end, fuel delivery, cooling and tune, I would not be suprised to se a daily driver in the 11s.

Later...

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

A Twin GT28 on a 4.2 would be well into the 10's if tuned properly. heck a 2.7 stroked to 3.0 with twin 28's was in the 10's last year. Let me know if you guys need JHM stuff, I am a Canadian Rep

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

I'm from the Subaru family and I'm not sure how much HP I'm running but, I'm well in the 12.7 - 12.5 sec. on the quarter.

I'm kinda looking at 4.2l S4s but, I have not seen anyone try to turbo them. An audi is not cheap to begin with and then adding forced induction your always running some risk of failure when your the first trailbalzer.

I think that's why I'm on the fence about getting an S4 4.2l. I would have to do something drastic to the 4.2l to get anywhere close to the performance level of I'm looking for. There isn't much out there on the subject...

All this while keeping it streetable and daily driver with full interior...

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Before you do anything call, e-mail, JH Motorsport. Please do not jump at the PES supercharger. It sounds great but by all indications falls short of promised performance.

Do your homework first.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Totally support this vision. Really do the homework and establish the goals. Great reply!!

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Many guys had good success with upgraded twin turbo setup on the V6 2.7L.
I have never seen superchargers comme close to turbos on the smaller displacement engines.

I just think for the amount of money the supercharger kits go for, 40-60 hps is not enough to motivate the big Audis (heavy).

I'm very curious to see what kind of numbers can be pulled from a twin turbo 4.2L V8.
low boost on stock engine or even better on a built V8 big boost. (nothing crazy, about 20-24lbs)

AWD V8 twin turbo Audi that would be pretty nice!
What do you guys think, super car terminator or what?

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

K04-S4,

That is very good info. This is even more intriguing.
The 8.5K$ kit is very respectable on stock componants.
And you are right about going over 10lbs of boost.
It always comes down to the budget at hand.

Thanks.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

No-one caught this...?

:p

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

allow me to clarify a few things here...

1.+2. the PES gains you quoted are dyno information. That's it. No real world performance testing to back up those claims. When the owners took the cars to the track, they performed like cars that had added 60-80hp (crank)...NOT 160hp. PES is full of ****. The M90 is a major fail on a high VE 4.2 V8. They copied VF Engineering...who also failed and assumed the dyno results would sell the kit. Both companies are seeing their M90 supercharger kits suffer greatly, and have basically abandoned advertising the kits.

I know a few owners first hand who bought a PES or VF kit...dyno'd 400whp (which is about 500 crank), then ran the quarter mile in 12.9 seconds @ 109mph. If you know anything about tracking these cars, those times/traps are nowhere near what they should be if the power claims were legit. They weren't. SCAM.

Here's the ultimate proof - JHM's in house B6 S4 vs. a VF engineering supercharged S4 (it's a b6 with an RS4 body conversion in yellow).

http://www.streetfire.net/video/jhm-...s4_2035390.htm

The JHM car dyno'd 317whp on 91 (which they're running here). The VF Engineering car dynod 402whp on 91 (which it is running here. This was the same dyno. The supercharged car dynos great. How about the real world?

The VF car weighed about 200lbs more than the JHM car, so JHM added a bunch of weight to their car. They did 4 or 5 runs.

The 317 whp car stayed within 1/2 a car length of the '402 whp' car...same weight...same gearing. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

run 1 - JHM car wins, but it got a tiny jump
run 2 - fair run, VF car wins by 1/2 a car length. This is nowhere near accurate for a supposedly 85 whp more powerful car
run 3 and 4 - they run a couple of more times giving the VF car the jump and a 1/4 to 1/2 car head start. It still barely puts 1 car length on the supposedly 85whp underpowered car.
run 5 - JHM turns on their 70whp nitrous kit (they dyno'd 405whp with the nitrous on)...gives VF the jump, a head start and a full honk...but the JHM nitrous car runs it down EASILY
run 6 - no leads, no jumps - just a straight run from 40mph to 120mph. JHM nitrous car WALKS the VF car by about 3 car lengths. This despite both cars having the same power on the dyno.

Bottom line? VF and PES M90 supercharged cars are dyno queens. If you want to drop $10,000 to have a pretty dyno graph, but get your ass handed to you on the road/track, be my guest.


3. MOTODYNE? THAT WAS A GIGANTIC FRAUD!!!! Please don't ever post anything by motodyne. They're a scam artist who bilked owners out of THOUSANDS of dollars for absolutely nothing. Please do some homework on Audiworld or Audizine. A search for 'MOTODYNE' in the 4.2 forums will yield some real horror stories.

4. B5 S4 weighs around 3650. B6/7 S4 weighs around 3850. Those are MT6 sedans.
The B8 S4 is the heaviest S4 of all time. The sedans with manual transmission STRUGGLE to weigh in at 4000lbs. Most are around 4050. Check any road test where the car was weighed...it's VERY heavy.

5. There is only 1 turbocharged S4 on earth. It has two Garrett turbos...it is in Detroit...and it is the JHM/VAST development car and they won't release numbers until the kit is ready for the public. A friend is going to be their first 'customer' with the kit on it, and they already have his car.

It is ungodly fast but it also needs forged rods and pistons to handle the power. The B6/7 S4 4.2 engine can handle something in the range of 450 WHP or less before the internals need to be replaced with forged bits. I base this on extensive testing by JHM. They pushed the heck out of one of their in house cars (yes they have multiple in house cars to test on that they own...unlike the scam artists who beta test on customers before they've even done any private testing).

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

^^^gotcha totally. You're a B5 guy, so it's tough to be up to speed on all the bullshit from other platforms!

re: torque numbers, the yellow car was around 375 wtq and the all motor car was around 320 wtq. Also insanely disparate.


MTM got it right on the RS4 - they used i believe a Lysholm supercharger that flows like crazy. The RS4 and the S4 are HIGHLY efficient. The volumetric efficiency numbers STOCK are almost the same as the max flow capabilities of the Eaton M90 supercharger that is used on the PES and VF S4 SC kits...as well as the PES RS4 kit. Thusly, they don't really post big gains (in the street, not the sheet).

APR is putting an Eaton TVS1320 supercharger in their RS4 kit. To quote a friend in the auto industry, that will be zip codes better than the M90 and miles better than even the Eaton M112 kit put out by VF Engineering.

Anyway, if I supercharge my car it will be a JHM kit. They've got the platform figured out, and rumour has it they're working on a supercharger.

p.s. the weights you're talking about...quoting Audi isn't going to work because they use a base model Euro car with non power, cloth seats, no power anything, no sunroof, small wheels etc. It's always dramatically different to the real cars that people order, especially over here where everything is bundled. The B8 S4 weighs 4000lbs. The MT6 guys weigh around 3950 and the DSG guys weigh about 4050. Just check actual weights (hence using R&T)

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

I get what you're saying about buying an RS4 or an R8... Those cars and the S4 share the same engine, there must not be much diference between them yet, there is 420hps in the RS4. You can pick up a used S4 and work on the engine a bit.(forget NOS, I don't buy the hype.) I'm sure you can get better than RS4 power and still be under the the price of the RS4. This is the point of trying to slap 2 turbos on the S4. It only take one crazy SOB to get it done and then wait and see all the others jump on the band wagon! I'm still torn on the subject. I would love to get an S4 V8an d turbo it but. I don't look forward to the trial and error phase of perfecting the setup.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Unfortunately, you can't get the R8 or RS4 (in N.A.) in the Avant trim. I still want mine to be my daily driver. Induction is my only option even if I could afford to buy the others.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

I'd prefer to go with a turbo option assuming that 1) the solution has been out for enough time that's it's been tested by enough people that are way more knowledgeable than me (and have given the thumbs up) and 2) that I have the money at that time :)

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

you're assuming all the offerings are on the table already. They're not. Be patient. The B5 stuff sucked until about 2006-7. That was 8 years after the first '99 B5 cars drove off the lot. We're currently at 7 years after the first EURO B6 cars drove off the lot. The early stage III B5 cars were mostly weaksauce K04 cars and until good guys like VAST stepped in, and stepped up with the first GT builds, the B5 wasn't 'all that' either. There are ALL MOTOR 4.2 cars that keep up with the PJk04 APR guys etc. even to this day. (I know...APR is weaksauce) Again, just be patient.

A friend's car is at JHM getting done right now, however, and another friend is JHM's test car which has been running since we were wondering when the snow would come. I reckon to go turbos, and get a fully built/forged internals setup, you're looking at just under $20,000. You'll also be in GT B5 territory though with 500whp as your worst case scenario and K04 cars having no chance to touch you unless they bend fanblades with boost. As above, we have to be patient because the car wasn't built FI, nor was there space vacated by removing K03s, as was the case in a B5 big turbo car.

For the record, I'm not going turbo. My FI solution will be a supercharger, but it won't be a PES or VF engineering scam kit. I am waiting for JHM. I'll finish the last few smart all motor mods, then look for their SC kit.

When I do, I expect performance similar to a good K04 car... (but maybe not a great JHM/VAST fuelled/tuned car). The goal is just under 450whp, on stock internals.



As for the Axel post, he was referring to the RS4 avant.

FYI Axel, the RS4 engine is entirely different to the S4. They share very little other than cylinder count and displacement.

BUT...you're right in that a good tune, good exhaust, good downpipes will have you running right beside an RS4. Add headers and you'll be even better equipped to handle making something like 400 crank hp and 370-380 crank torque. The fastest ALL MOTOR S4 ran 12.70@112mph...which is about what a much lighter R8 will do with a good driver.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

I have an 05 S4, manual, I had it twin turboed in texas. engine is not stock though. alot was redone so it could hold more power and the tranny is rebuilt for same reason. it has 2 70mm turbos on it and it makes about 800awhp and the tq is around 700 i believe. it's by far the fastest vehicle I have ever owned. its crazy and it pulls on everything, a buddy of mine has a TT gallardo that makes around 1000 at the crank and i can for the most part keep side by side with him. hes usually half a car length ahead. on race gas - Q16 my car will make a little over 1000hp. but this S4 is fully rebuilt to hold the power and a great deal of money and time has been put in. If anyone else does it, I think its completely worth it:thumb:

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Yeah, I am at Camp Pendleton right now doing some work and my car is home in AZ. I will take a few vids when I get home, got a new camera so they won't be crap phone vids. And I'll upload the pics at the same time.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

haha i read the first quote on accident first and was like uhh i didnt say that. but yeah everything in the car has pretty much been rebuilt. all of the work was about 45-50k. most of which was money from my first deployment. but Im editing the vids now so they should be up soon.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

It looks a little different with the covers off

https://www.audiforum.ca/members/k04...l-v8-valve.jpg

https://www.audiforum.ca/members/k04...ing-column.jpg

4.2 Build Threads!

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Unit & rank...? :neutral:

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

USMC, where you at in arizona? I'm moving to Tuscon next month. Also, hearing 800 at the crank with the 2 turbos, even if you rebuild the motor gave me a chub. Seriously, i was looking to get around 10-15 PSI and maybe about 500-550 HP with the turbos, exhaust, chip tune, clutch, and the little stuff that goes with tuning the car for more power.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

how dare you use a hammer on your car!! Roflllll

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

so I guess from this guy's disappearance, we can chalk this one up to the bullshit column. I'd love him to prove me wrong...but I think him saying it makes 800 whp, and '700 wtq...I believe' just tells me he's making numbers up for fun.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Agree.....Prove it!

Lets see the car, pics and numbers.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

One must use the appropriate tools required to service their own vehicles properly and sometimes specialty tools are needed too. You should see what tools and techniques some large charge shops use to fix your car for you! Roflllll


Would like to see more than the facebook stock pictures of the USMC S4! I can't seem to find anything on the Internet about this car. Where are the pics and build thread of this awesome 1000HP convertible? Along with the large power upgrades, I would love to see the chassis upgrades that were implemented to maintain convertible structural integrity.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Ok, so its been a while since i've posted but this is my idea. its crazy. i know. Don't judge it by the looks of it, and think about if its worth it for (possibly) the fastest S4 ever made.

Take out the rear seats. Support the metal underneath the rear seats with more steal and weld on some turbo mounts. Run the exhaust up to the back seat into the turbos with all the other extras there, then run them right back down on the other side of the turbos and out the back of the car. (I know it seems crazy to just have turbos chillin in the back seat just wait) Get fiberglass molded to where the top of the seats typically would be to be flush with the top of the back seats. mold it around the sides and to the 'rear' windows. Take out the rear windows and mount a side intake on both sides for the two turbos. Then run the intake for the turbos back underneath the car where the exhaust came from and up to the intake manifold. upgrade pistons/tranny/head work/clutch all the little bits and get a good tune, and get the ECU programmed with the air/fuel ratios.

yeah, the car wouldn't nearly be stock and to resell would be way out of the question, but i love my car. When i bought it i said i would drive it til it died, and i still feel the same way. As far as heat and sound go from the inside of the car, you could still keep a relatively quiet nice interior of the car with a few simple things.

Put sound proof padding on the opposing of the fiberglass molded around the back where the seats used to be, and on the inside of that (closest layer to the turbos) Put a very strong layer of heat shielding. The temperature from the turbos would be a very little problem, and the sound (with good material) would be head from outside the windows, and not right behind ur ears. you get a good black coat on the fiberglass with a clear coat, and you'll have a stylish cover if its molded the way you want it to, and then you got a Twin turbo V8 that'll blow the doors off porsche 911's.

I did think about the turbo lag coming from the turbos being so far away from the intake manifold. But thats where having a V8 comes into play. You get almost your full torque from 22-6600 RPMs, So off the line the torque and relatively high HP of the tune and such on the motor itself should get her up and going for the few milliseconds of turbo lag.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Baker, rear-mounted turbos are nothing new; although, I don't know of any on the S4. However, the whole point of the S4 is that it's a 'sporty' sedan - why bother turning a a big, overweight pig into a coupe? I don't think anyone's going to bite on that. Does anyone know if there's room to mount turbos in the undercarriage with a smaller muffler?

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Broski. I drive a cabriolets. So the rear seats r worth diddly squat as is and its already a coupe lol

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

And no, there's barely enough room for what's there as is

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

My point was that no one else is going to share this view with you, so a kit like the one you dream of will never be more than a one-off. This means the idea you were talking about would cost tens of thousands of dollars (obviously less if you can fabricate everything yourself). But, why do all the work to a 3800-4000lb pig if you don't need the back seats? Get a car 1000lbs less and do a proper build. I guess if you want to do it just for the sake of doing it, or to be unique, that's cool; but, since you like cabrios, just get a 3.2 TT Roadster, slap a turbo on (there are even kits, but a custom setup is fairly straightforward), and enjoy more performance for less money. You could probably do the whole job for just the cost of a stock S4!

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Please don't take this the wrong way but I'm a very blunt person.
Do you really think I'm so goddamn ignorant that I would think the world shared my idea for my car? Well I'm not. And as far as it being a "pig" if that's your honest opinion of s4's then why the **** are you on this forum, and more specifically the s line forum.


Also its not about the money or speed. Its about originality, so obviously with that response you don't understand the art of what I'm trying to do. Which is what nobody in the WORLD has done to this car, nevermind the cabriolets version.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

My post name doesn't say "I like fast convertibles will someone point me in the right direction" does it?

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Why the defensiveness? It's pretty clear that my posts were not meant to offend; for someone so eager to be "blunt" with me, you're rather reactive to my posts. Consider that my posts are not meant to be offensive, but informative.



Uhhhh, pretty much:




My posts indicate otherwise ;):



Really? Sounds like it's about exactly that.



Obviously, it's just my opinion; but, it's a very well-substantiated one - when was the last time that you saw a 4000lb racecar? I know you're not building a "racecar" - so don't go there - but you are essentially building the closest approximation to one that you can. Building your proposed project would yield a car in the range of 4300lbs - even with 500HP, you'd get spanked by Elises with 200wHP at a track. That's why I call it a pig. But hey, maybe your fibreglass headers can save you some weight :D

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm also a very blunt person: It's quite clear that you don't have the requisite knowledge to build a car like this yourself, and unless you're willing to spend several times the amount of your initial budget, you're just wasting bandwidth.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Haha. Money and time is not a problem. I am 20 years old and own my car outright. And if you are going to tell me a twin Turbo setup in a 4.2l v8 will only produce 500hp then you my friend obviously have a very serious lack of knowledge. I am at 375at the crank with a drop in filter and a flashed Ecu , and with a proper tune and head work I can easily reach 450 to 475. Which will be about 375 at the wheels. Then with a solid Turbo setup and correct tune for that it will far surpass 7-800hp. And if you disagree do some research before you respond. And find me some solid evidence before you say anything. And I never even came close to saying I wanted anything to do with any other car besides a b6 s4 Cabriolet.

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Please have the courtesy to refute my statements with facts before you repeatedly claim me to be ignorant. I've been called a lot of things in my life, but never have been said to have a "very serious lack of knowledge".

I have a World of evidence to back up everything that I say. What exactly do you need clarification on?

Since we're calling each other out, please link to some before-after dynos of a 4.2 with an air filter and tune that's 375cHP? And, one with head work that's at 475cHP? How about them fancy fibreglass headers?

Re: Twin turbo in 2004 4.2l S4?????
 

Recently watched a Battle of the Supercars episode where a tuned and modified twin turbo R8 was up against a twin turbo tuned Porsche. Both were only around 660 HP. These cars were modified and tuned by a reputable company with experience. The R8 was a 4.2 FSI engine to start with.