Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4
 

One question CR,
the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning,
although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress
the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released. But the way
i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also
press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not
like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is
this a bad thing? also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down
much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range
to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine.
my car is a BMW 525i
Thanks
Imad

C.R. Krieger wrote:

>plavnostruev@yahoo.com (Mike Ignatovsky) wrote in message news:<3d7f7d1a.0306180837.71b60b73@posting.google. com>...
>
>
>>My 20003 A4 quattro is 3 months old and it has 3,000 miles on it.
>>
>>I was told there that, indeed, it was the clutch and they implied that
>>maybe I was "too heavy on the clutch" and they also implied very
>>politely that maybe I don't know how to drive a car with a stick :-[
>>For the record - this is my 4th consequitive car with a stick;
>>on my old Maxima SE I did have clutch trouble, but not untill
>>85,000 miles on the car.
>>
>>
>
>Even 85K is quite early for a clutch failure, IME. I'm guessing the
>service department is correct, but is using the wrong term for your
>clutch use. It's not "heavy", but rather "tentative". IOW, you spend
>too much time with the clutch *partly* engaged. That is when the
>clutch (by design) slips and wears (and gets hot). When you have the
>pedal to the floor, it's fully disengaged and when you aren't on the
>pedal, it's fully engaged. Anywhere in between is a Bad Thing (TM).
>
>
>
>>What to do? I don't want to drive a car where clutch burned like
>>a bush just because I got stuck in traffic;
>>
>>
>
>One hot clutch incident won't necessarily hurt it very much, but you
>need to learn how to prevent it in the future. I've been stuck in
>traffic lots of times (Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Rome, Munich, etc.),
>but I've never fried a clutch.
>
>
>
>>I live near NYC where
>>one spends more time in traffic than actually driving around :-(
>>Any suggestions and recommendations are appreciated!
>>
>>
>
>You need to learn how to get *on* and *off* the clutch as quickly as
>possible. That means quickly all the way to the *floor* when you step
>on it and quickly all the way to the *top* when you get off of it.
>This doesn't have to be harsh and jerky, but it may take some time to
>break your old habits. This also doesn't mean you have to drive your
>car like some old 'Granny'. I'm a driving instructor for both BMW and
>Audi clubs and I'm not known for 'babying' my cars nor for going
>slowly, but I *am* known for being very nice to my clutch and brakes.
>You *can* be fast and smooth, but it takes some concentration and
>practice until it becomes second nature (it will).
>--
>C.R. Krieger
>(Been there; spun that)
>
>

Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4
 

Imad Al-Ghouleh <ighoul@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in message news:<3F0CDF62.3080109@po-box.mcgill.ca>...
> One question CR,
> the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning,
> although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress
> the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released.

A Bad Thing.

> But the way
> i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also
> press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not
> like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is
> this a bad thing?

Probably. The car is just a car and has no need to release anything.
What you're feeling is revving the engine too high for your shifts.
What is *best* for the clutch is quick, smooth, *full* engagement when
the engine and gearbox are turning at about the same speeds. If you
start to engage it and then rev the engine before it's fully engaged,
you abuse the clutch.

> also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down

OK; I know you mean *lower* gears, not *reverse* ... so we'll move on:

> much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range
> to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine.

For this, you get the standard lawyer answer: It depends.

For shifting, if you do not rev the engine between gears to
(approximately) match the gearbox speed, you will feel a lurch *and*
you will slip the clutch. Those are Bad Things. If you know how to
rev match and downshift well, it won't hurt a thing - except:

If you downshift and the engine revs to or beyond its redline, you
*can* hurt the engine. In fact, you can effectively destroy it.

> my car is a BMW 525i

Except for the last paragraph, which applies primarily to
'interference engines' (BMWs, Audis, pretty much everything that's
really fun to drive), all of this information applies to *all* cars
with manually actuated clutches.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4
 

Thanks CR.
so basically when i upshift or downshift i have to rev the engine to be
approximately the same speed as the gears. I would imagine from this
that leaving a gear engaged when going downhill without pressing the gas
(to keep the car from speeding up too much) is also a bad thing, right?
Imad

C.R. Krieger wrote:

>Imad Al-Ghouleh <ighoul@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in message news:<3F0CDF62.3080109@po-box.mcgill.ca>...
>
>
>>One question CR,
>>the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning,
>>although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress
>>the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released.
>>
>>
>
>A Bad Thing.
>
>
>
>>But the way
>>i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also
>>press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not
>>like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is
>>this a bad thing?
>>
>>
>
>Probably. The car is just a car and has no need to release anything.
>What you're feeling is revving the engine too high for your shifts.
>What is *best* for the clutch is quick, smooth, *full* engagement when
>the engine and gearbox are turning at about the same speeds. If you
>start to engage it and then rev the engine before it's fully engaged,
>you abuse the clutch.
>
>
>
>>also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down
>>
>>
>
>OK; I know you mean *lower* gears, not *reverse* ... so we'll move on:
>
>
>
>>much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range
>>to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine.
>>
>>
>
>For this, you get the standard lawyer answer: It depends.
>
>For shifting, if you do not rev the engine between gears to
>(approximately) match the gearbox speed, you will feel a lurch *and*
>you will slip the clutch. Those are Bad Things. If you know how to
>rev match and downshift well, it won't hurt a thing - except:
>
>If you downshift and the engine revs to or beyond its redline, you
>*can* hurt the engine. In fact, you can effectively destroy it.
>
>
>
>>my car is a BMW 525i
>>
>>
>
>Except for the last paragraph, which applies primarily to
>'interference engines' (BMWs, Audis, pretty much everything that's
>really fun to drive), all of this information applies to *all* cars
>with manually actuated clutches.
>--
>C.R. Krieger
>(Been there; done that)
>
>

Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4
 

Imad Al-Ghouleh <ighoul@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in message news:<3F0E378B.4040001@po-box.mcgill.ca>...
> Thanks CR.
> so basically when i upshift or downshift i have to rev the engine to be
> approximately the same speed as the gears.

Correct.

> I would imagine from this
> that leaving a gear engaged when going downhill without pressing the gas
> (to keep the car from speeding up too much) is also a bad thing, right?

Actually, no. That is not a Bad Thing at all. It's just engine
braking. Just don't go doing it at much over 3-4000 rpm or so.
--
C.R. Krieger

Re: Burning clutch on brand new A4
 

Hi Imad,
Do remember what's happening when you press the clutch. You disengage from the engine, change the gear, and on release reengage the transmission to the engine. So, when you ride the clutch the mechanism to engage to the engine, i.e. the clutch plate, skids along getting abraded till the tranmission fully engages. That's pure wear and tear.

The feeling of the engine "releasing its horses" is simply you revving up the engine to a fast enough RPM to engage all at once which does not require riding the clutch. Riding the clutch is not useful. You should engage or disengage decisively or else you will wear out the clutch (plate).
Hope this helps,
Ali
"Imad Al-Ghouleh" <ighoul@po-box.mcgill.ca> wrote in message news:3F0CDF62.3080109@po-box.mcgill.ca...
One question CR,
the way I use the clutch is very similar to what you are mentioning, although sometimes i do tend to leave the clutch in midrange and depress the gas to get that extra push when teh clutch is released. But the way i drive is that, alltough i lift the clutch relatively fast, I also press the gas very fast, also because i like that extra push (it not like a jerk, but as if the car is anxious to release these horses!). is this a bad thing? also, i tend to rely on reverse gears to slow down much more than brakes, but that often means rpm jumping from 2-3 range to mid 4 to 5 range for a second or two. is this bad for the engine.
my car is a BMW 525i
Thanks
Imad

C.R. Krieger wrote:

plavnostruev@yahoo.com (Mike Ignatovsky) wrote in message news:<3d7f7d1a.0306180837.71b60b73@posting.google. com>...

My 20003 A4 quattro is 3 months old and it has 3,000 miles on it.

I was told there that, indeed, it was the clutch and they implied that
maybe I was "too heavy on the clutch" and they also implied very
politely that maybe I don't know how to drive a car with a stick :-[
For the record - this is my 4th consequitive car with a stick;
on my old Maxima SE I did have clutch trouble, but not untill
85,000 miles on the car.


Even 85K is quite early for a clutch failure, IME. I'm guessing the
service department is correct, but is using the wrong term for your
clutch use. It's not "heavy", but rather "tentative". IOW, you spend
too much time with the clutch *partly* engaged. That is when the
clutch (by design) slips and wears (and gets hot). When you have the
pedal to the floor, it's fully disengaged and when you aren't on the
pedal, it's fully engaged. Anywhere in between is a Bad Thing (TM).


What to do? I don't want to drive a car where clutch burned like
a bush just because I got stuck in traffic;


One hot clutch incident won't necessarily hurt it very much, but you
need to learn how to prevent it in the future. I've been stuck in
traffic lots of times (Chicago, NYC, Cleveland, Rome, Munich, etc.),
but I've never fried a clutch.


I live near NYC where
one spends more time in traffic than actually driving around :-(
Any suggestions and recommendations are appreciated!


You need to learn how to get *on* and *off* the clutch as quickly as
possible. That means quickly all the way to the *floor* when you step
on it and quickly all the way to the *top* when you get off of it.
This doesn't have to be harsh and jerky, but it may take some time to
break your old habits. This also doesn't mean you have to drive your
car like some old 'Granny'. I'm a driving instructor for both BMW and
Audi clubs and I'm not known for 'babying' my cars nor for going
slowly, but I *am* known for being very nice to my clutch and brakes.
You *can* be fast and smooth, but it takes some concentration and
practice until it becomes second nature (it will).
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; spun that)