Re: Financial Calcs for loan vs lease (was: Re: Leasing a TT)
 

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:30:37 -0000, "Hairy One Kenobi"
>The most important thing to come from this is, I think, "YMMV".
>
>Lease vs. purchase is very much a personal thing, depending upon a lot of
>factors.
>
>For, say, a more typical young chap trying to drive a car that he can't
>afford to buy, the story is different - a lease makes the car /attainable/.
>He doesn't get anything out of it - excepting the experience of driving said
>car for three years - but considers it a worthwhile use of his money.

Good summary of the whole discussion.

The primary reason I lease is tht I tried the purchase/resale thing
for both my long (10 or more years) and my short (4 or less years)
cars and found the lease is easier one me for the short term car and
the purchase is tremedously better for the long term car. The third
car is a cash purchase beater truck for home improvement projects and
dump runs.

Though, if VW brings a new 2-seater mid-engine rear-wheel drive car
over here I just may switch to 2 long term cars, a beater "family"
car, and a beater truck.

Scott

Re: Leasing a TT
 

With all due respect, you may want to understand leasing a little
better before you come to the conclusion that leasing is not for
individuals, only for businesses. There are, of course, many
situations in which leasing is not a good answer for certain people
but, there are likewise many situations in which leasing can provide
advantages and benefits.

I've been leasing all my family personal cars for the last twenty
years, always successfully and with great benefit. I just leased my
most recent vehicle (a high-resdiual, low money factor, low
acquisition fee SUV for my wife)last week. I've never paid a cent in
mileage or wear fees, bought a couple of the vehicles when the
purchase price was less than residual, and typically negotiated better
deals each time than the time before (the poor economy helps).

The problem seems to be that many people who don't understand leasing
get into it for the wrong reasons and realize their errors later. They
then declare that leasing is wrong for everyone -- to mask their own
individual mistakes. It's true that leasing is more complex than
simple financing, and there's more opportunity to make mistakes. But,
as with any business transaction, if you know how it works and know
what you're doing, you can do it successfully and make it work for
you.

Rather than expound on details, I suggest you take a look at
www.LeaseGuide.com/index2.htm and check out the Lease Guide there.

Al

Mark Allread <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote in message news:<oprxlkt4dtbsorsk@news.chartermi.com>...
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:49:04 +0100, wrote:
>
>
> > Still, makes yer think, dunnit..?
>
> All valid points, but much easier is this:
>
> A leasing company buys the car at the beginning,
> and sells it at the end. They make a profit
> doing so. If you lease, that profit is coming
> from you. If you buy, the equivalent of that
> profit is staying in your pocket.
>
> It really is as simple as that. Individual cases
> can vary, the residual value can be higher or
> lower than expected, etc., but overall, leasing
> is NOT advantageous for individuals (there may be
> some tax benefits for corporations). With a lease,
> you're paying to avoid the hassle of selling a
> used car at the end.

Re: Leasing a TT
 

"Al Hearn" <ahearn@leaseguide.com> skrev i melding
news:e3d31c56.0310271023.3d660f25@posting.google.c om...
> With all due respect, you may want to understand leasing a little
> better before you come to the conclusion that leasing is not for
> individuals, only for businesses.
Here in my country at least, only businesses lease their cars. Individuals
here prefer to own their private cars. It is exactly the same with houses,
we prefer to own.

Re: Leasing a TT
 

On 27 Oct 2003 10:23:12 -0800, Al Hearn <ahearn@leaseguide.com> wrote:


> I've been leasing all my family personal cars for the last twenty
> years, always successfully and with great benefit. I just leased my
> most recent vehicle (a high-resdiual, low money factor, low
> acquisition fee SUV for my wife)last week. I've never paid a cent in
> mileage or wear fees, bought a couple of the vehicles when the
> purchase price was less than residual,

and never had any equity.

Leasing companies aren't making profits based on their good
looks. Buy vs. lease comparisons including captive leasing companies
(GIAC, Ford Acceptance, etc.) are generally invalid, since the
manufacturer is often footing a large part of the bill in order to
offer a below market rate.

--
Mark

Re: Leasing a TT
 

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:56:55 -0500, Mark Allread
<mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:
>and never had any equity.

Haven't you ever heard the motto (paraphrased)
"If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, rent it."

Unless you run all the numbers for your own situation it really is
meaningless. It does make sense for some people to lease (at least the
way things are set up in the US) and it makes more sense for most
people to buy a used car and drive it until it don't drive no more.

Scott

Re: Leasing a TT
 

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:18:09 -0800, Scott <spam784@spam.spam> wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:56:55 -0500, Mark Allread
> <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:
>> and never had any equity.
>
> Haven't you ever heard the motto (paraphrased)
> "If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, rent it."

That's an oxymoron. The leasing company is obviously buying
an asset which depreciates, and making money by doing so.

--
Mark

Re: Leasing a TT
 

>> "If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, rent it."
>
>That's an oxymoron. The leasing company is obviously buying
>an asset which depreciates, and making money by doing so.

Yeah, but the leasing company is making YOU pay for the depreciation.

Re: Leasing a TT
 

On 28 Oct 2003 16:48:50 GMT, MVGESQ <mvgesq@aol.com> wrote:

>>> "If it appreciates, buy it. If it depreciates, rent it."
>>
>> That's an oxymoron. The leasing company is obviously buying
>> an asset which depreciates, and making money by doing so.
>
> Yeah, but the leasing company is making YOU pay for the depreciation.

Thank you for making my point.

--
Mark

Re: Leasing a TT
 

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:26:11 -0500, Mark Allread
<mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote:
>That's an oxymoron. The leasing company is obviously buying
>an asset which depreciates, and making money by doing so.

What the leasing company is actually doing is loaning you the car for
a period of time and charging you for depreciation and interest. As I
mentioned in an earlier post you can beat those rates by a bunch if
you spend your own cash up front.

However, if you are borrowing the money then the bank is essentially
buying the vehicle (it is a secured loan and the vehicle goes to them
in a default situation) and charging you interest. Same thing applies
here about beating the rates with your own money.

Again, run the numbers for your specific situation and vehicle to find
out if it makes sense for you. You are ignoring the actual numbers
already posted from real vehicles and situations.

Scott

Re: Leasing a TT
 

Don't want any stinking equity in a depreciating asset. I'd rather put
my equity money in something that appreciates, and only pay for what I
use in an automobile (a lease). An automobile is a very poor savings
account -- you get back a lot less than you put in.

I appreciate it when a captive lease company with deep pockets decides
to give me a great lease deal. In fact, in the last few years, the
lease deals from captive lease companies have been very agressive
(read, they lose money) and I've been happy to watch for them and take
advantage of them.

Al
-------------------------

Mark Allread <mallread@flatsurface.com> wrote in message news:<oprxp7g5scbsorsk@news.chartermi.com>...
> On 27 Oct 2003 10:23:12 -0800, Al Hearn <ahearn@leaseguide.com> wrote:
>
>
> > I've been leasing all my family personal cars for the last twenty
> > years, always successfully and with great benefit. I just leased my
> > most recent vehicle (a high-resdiual, low money factor, low
> > acquisition fee SUV for my wife)last week. I've never paid a cent in
> > mileage or wear fees, bought a couple of the vehicles when the
> > purchase price was less than residual,
>
> and never had any equity.
>
> Leasing companies aren't making profits based on their good
> looks. Buy vs. lease comparisons including captive leasing companies
> (GIAC, Ford Acceptance, etc.) are generally invalid, since the
> manufacturer is often footing a large part of the bill in order to
> offer a below market rate.