Jon B

Robert <rxobert.bxrown@txripnet.se> wrote:

> Jon B wrote:
> > C.R. Krieger <88.535is@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Robert wrote:
> >>
> >>>Strange that you say this design of brake is "horrible". It's actually
> >>>an excellent way of ensuring that the slack in the handbrake, due to
> >>>wear on rear pads, is taken up. But of course one has to screw the
> >>>pistons back in when putting a fresh set of pads. What would you expect?
> >>
> >>I was right with you up until you decided to defend this caliper
> >>design. While I prefer the term 'idiotic' to 'horrible', it's
> >>certainly not in the same universe as 'good'. A 'good' design doesn't
> >>use the pads for the handbrake. A 'good' design won't allow the
> >>handbrake to loosen and effectively release as the disk cools. A
> >>'good' design won't contribute to warping the rotors if applied when
> >>the brakes are hot. A 'good' design doesn't require a special tool to
> >>screw in the piston. A 'good' design doesn't require guessing whether
> >>you've got it properly adjusted for braking and for handbraking.
> >>
> >>These are all reasons I prefer the 'good' design of my old BMW's rear
> >>brakes (whose last adjustment I do not remember) and why I let Jaguar
> >>'rape' me to install the rear pads on my X-Type, which shares this
> >>'idiotic' design.
> >
> >
> > And adding to the list, a design that despite being introduced back in
> > the 70's, they still don't seem to have totally cured the seizing
> > handbrake problem that they suffer from, although at least coming up
> > with turning the caliper upside down made it more reliable.
> >
> > Speaking of which must look at which way round the calipers are on the
> > 80, I got through a few calipers before I found out about mk3 calipers
> > on the mk2 Golf, don't want to go through all that (and the associated
> > expense) on the 80.
> >
> > Why oh why can't they use the drum inside a disc solution, I know its a
> > few quid more to build, but saves a fortune in the long run, and you get
> > both worlds, all round discs, and a working drum handbrake.
>
> Yes I can see the logic in both C.R.'s and Jon's postings. I may lack
> perspective on types of brake/handbrake combos available, since I have
> had experience of three only:
>
> 1. Saab 900 1983 - handbrake on front Girling brakes activating the
> pads. Design disaster allowing premature wear of yoke-piston interface,
> seizing handbrake etc.
>
Fronts was just asking for cooling and handbrake release issues, which
is exactly what it often did on the Xantia. Saabs probably got round
this via the fact they had to be parked in gear.

> 2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
> wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
> Never never again will I have a car with such a design.
>
My mk3 Cavalier had that system (as saab is now GM yours was probably
identical), but they shouldn't really get worn, unless you try driving
with the handbrake on, or do a lot of handbrake turns. I know other cars
have this system and it works well (and this is my favourite system), I
know the Cavalier only really needed touching once a year, all covered
under annual services.

> 3. Audi A4 2001 (B5) - handbrake on rear (ATE?) brakes activating the
> pads. I've noticed no disk warping (though I now have warped fronts -
> cheap disks ...). Relatively easy to maintain; I'm happy with them. I
> now understand that others' experiences have not been so postive though.
>
Never suffered any warping on the rear of the mk2, despite totally
smoking one of the rear discs more than once with seized calipers.
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.

C.R. Krieger

Robert wrote:
>
> 2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
> wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
> Never never again will I have a car with such a design.

I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

C.R. Krieger

Robert wrote:
>
> 2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
> wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
> Never never again will I have a car with such a design.

I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

C.R. Krieger

Robert wrote:
>
> 2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
> wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
> Never never again will I have a car with such a design.

I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

C.R. Krieger

Robert wrote:
>
> 2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
> wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
> Never never again will I have a car with such a design.

I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

Robert

C.R. Krieger wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>>2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
>>wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
>> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
>>Never never again will I have a car with such a design.
>
>
> I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
> this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)
>

Good point both of you. My ex-partner used the car most of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if she didn't drive with the handbrake on to
compensate for the 283 Nm torque.

But seriously folks ... this is the only car of ours that we left for
the Saab mechanics to work on as far as the brakes are concerned. They
claimed that the return springs had failed, causing premature pad wear.

And my experience of Saab's mechanics is that they're not really good at
adjusting things.


/Robert

Robert

C.R. Krieger wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>>2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
>>wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
>> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
>>Never never again will I have a car with such a design.
>
>
> I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
> this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)
>

Good point both of you. My ex-partner used the car most of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if she didn't drive with the handbrake on to
compensate for the 283 Nm torque.

But seriously folks ... this is the only car of ours that we left for
the Saab mechanics to work on as far as the brakes are concerned. They
claimed that the return springs had failed, causing premature pad wear.

And my experience of Saab's mechanics is that they're not really good at
adjusting things.


/Robert

Robert

C.R. Krieger wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>>2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
>>wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
>> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
>>Never never again will I have a car with such a design.
>
>
> I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
> this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)
>

Good point both of you. My ex-partner used the car most of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if she didn't drive with the handbrake on to
compensate for the 283 Nm torque.

But seriously folks ... this is the only car of ours that we left for
the Saab mechanics to work on as far as the brakes are concerned. They
claimed that the return springs had failed, causing premature pad wear.

And my experience of Saab's mechanics is that they're not really good at
adjusting things.


/Robert

Robert

C.R. Krieger wrote:
> Robert wrote:
>
>>2. Saab 9-3 1999 - handbrake on rear brakes activating a drum. The
>>wear-compensating mechanism simply didn't compensate for wear, requiring
>> continual manual adjustment. Only worked if you parked on the flat.
>>Never never again will I have a car with such a design.
>
>
> I'm with Jon in wondering how you manage to actually wear a brake like
> this. Properly adjusted, they work great, as on my BMW.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; done that)
>

Good point both of you. My ex-partner used the car most of the time.
Sometimes I wonder if she didn't drive with the handbrake on to
compensate for the 283 Nm torque.

But seriously folks ... this is the only car of ours that we left for
the Saab mechanics to work on as far as the brakes are concerned. They
claimed that the return springs had failed, causing premature pad wear.

And my experience of Saab's mechanics is that they're not really good at
adjusting things.


/Robert