Audi A4 timing belt
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:03:41 GMT, "+ Rob +"
<frankrNo@Spammindspring.com> wrote:
>
>"Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net .au...
>> There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text
>of
>> the Audi service bulletin for Australia.
>> Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump......
>>
>> "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >"Audi A4 owner" <huan@atelo.com> wrote in message
>> > >news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00@posting.google. com...
>> > >> I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it
>> > >> in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water
>> > >> pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests
>> > >> replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's
>manual
>> > >> says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me
>> > >> off?
>> > >
>> > >I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000
>km's
>> or
>> > >4 years whichever comes first!
>> > >My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water
>> pump
>> > >done in the next few months.....
>> >
>> > Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or
>> > "kilometers"?
>> >
>> > My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles),
>> > applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT...
>
> After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions.
>One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And
>more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on
>this and neglected to correct their error.
> Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer
>recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000
>kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the
>people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either
>mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't
>realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either
>way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America
>certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so
>that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a
>bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature).
>
>Rob
>2002 A4 3.0Q
>
>
NASA lost a Mars satellite because someone at Lockheed forgot to
convert miles to km. Doh.
<frankrNo@Spammindspring.com> wrote:
>
>"Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net .au...
>> There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text
>of
>> the Audi service bulletin for Australia.
>> Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump......
>>
>> "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >"Audi A4 owner" <huan@atelo.com> wrote in message
>> > >news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00@posting.google. com...
>> > >> I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it
>> > >> in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water
>> > >> pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests
>> > >> replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's
>manual
>> > >> says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me
>> > >> off?
>> > >
>> > >I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000
>km's
>> or
>> > >4 years whichever comes first!
>> > >My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water
>> pump
>> > >done in the next few months.....
>> >
>> > Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or
>> > "kilometers"?
>> >
>> > My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles),
>> > applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT...
>
> After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions.
>One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And
>more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on
>this and neglected to correct their error.
> Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer
>recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000
>kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the
>people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either
>mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't
>realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either
>way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America
>certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so
>that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a
>bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature).
>
>Rob
>2002 A4 3.0Q
>
>
NASA lost a Mars satellite because someone at Lockheed forgot to
convert miles to km. Doh.
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:01:46 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>You know, I do agree with some of what you say especially regarding the way
>businesses operate. I have no idea how I got dragged into this whole stupid
>argument and I am not going to provide a line by line response. Here is the
>essense of what I am saying though:
>
>Most of the customers do come to get a noise fixed and happy to leave the
>shop with the noise gone. I never said it was illegal or scam or fraud to
>mark up parts and a doubling the price is indeed normal. We are not talking
>about double mark up though, the internet store selling me the same WP for
>$70 does make a profit too, probably the same double markup, and unlike
>shops they have to order them, stock them, ship them etc - really lots of
>work involved. In this example the true cost of the part is likely about
>$35, so charging $170 for it is OUTRAGEOUS).
D O G - I hate to break it to you, but 4x marks on Cost of Goods Sold
is typical business practice for retailers. Of course, that is after
the tier-one and tier-two distributors get their share. For higher
quality parts or designs, the retail mark can go to 10x. So, a $35
part selling at $170 is a 4.85x mark...not really outrageous.
>Anyway, they may be happy that there is no noise, but lots of them do
>grumble that it cost them a small fortune to get it fixed. That's especially
>applicable to Audis and other german cars which are notoriously expensive in
>repair/maintenance.
Then buy a friggin' GM. If you can't afford to maintain it, then
maybe you shouldn't own it.
>All I did was suggested that an educated consumer can invest a little time,
>do a little research and save a significant amount of money on parts. And
>it's not that hard, really. I am NOT a car man, but I did it twice
>successfully and plan to do it again. (My first time was with rear brakes
>pads/rotors, dealer quoted $220 for parts plus tax, I got EOM pads and
>rotors for $100 on the internet including shipping). BTW stealer quoted 2
>hours of labor for brakes at $90 hr, my non-audi mechanic did it in one hour
>at $55. Total dealer quote - $400+tax = $425, I paid $160 for the same job.
It never hurts to shop around, but you seem to be of the typical
consumer mindset that price is everything and value is nothing. Good
business behavior is based on a "win-win" basis. No business man
likes a customer that constantly tries to squeeze his margins for the
same level of service.
>Yes, you are right, the dealership did not make (take) extra $265 from me,
>do you really think I am supposed to be upset about it. HAHAHAHAHA. I am
>delighted to be an educated consumer and will spend MY money on MY kids. As
>an extra bonus I learned a lot about cars in the process, so it's going to
>be harder for mechanics to rip me off in the future.
Correction. You are a mis-educated consumer, most likely a graduate
of the Wal-Mart University. Cheaper is better - this is a poor
person's mindset. Experience and quality comes at a cost and is worth
paying for. Why did you buy an Audi to begin with?!
>And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
>who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
>willing to do the job.
There won't be enough mechanics if everyone starts doing what you do.
If you make it hard to make a living at something, then that trade
will become more rare as vendors exit. Rarity eventually drives the
price right back up...and you are forced to deal with the very thing
you were trying to avoid. They may perform the job, but I'm sure they
remember exactly who you were. Don't expect any favors or any
preferential treatment because you do not behave like a good business
partner, so why should they behave that way? Give the small business
owner a break...eh?
Elroy
2000 S4
>
>"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
>news:8qhbkv8cidraeth35v4k75vnp71a3cfthn@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a
>parts
>> >dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a
>lot
>> >of hard work involved of course .
>>
>> Hitting machine with hammer: $20
>> Knowing where to hit it: $2480
>>
>> > but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
>> >does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
>>
>> You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
>> business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
>> they're tell you to kiss off.
>>
>> >Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
>>
>> I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>>
>> >Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for
>yourself if
>> >they do not care.
>>
>> The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
>> parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
>> expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
>> to buy it.
>>
>> Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
>> noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
>> tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
>>
>> Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
>> aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
>> of their knowledge.
>>
>> >For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between
>consenting
>> >adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
>> >the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
>> >voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation
>with
>> >parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better
>off
>> >with getting their own parts.
>>
>> You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
>> standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
>> fraud? Come on.
>>
>> >Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
>>
>> There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
>> time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
>> parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
>> his business.
>>
>> >Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
>> >also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills
>for
>> >his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
>> >breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
>> >things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic
>to
>> >all or any of this?
>>
>> Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
>> charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
>> to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
>> how the system works.
>>
>> I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
>> should stop that.
>>
>> >Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
>> >the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
>>
>> Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
>> while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
>> listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
>> are not free.
>>
>> We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>>
>> >That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is
>indeed
>> >how the business works.
>>
>> QED.
>>
>> >I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
>>
>> The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
>> mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
>> mechanic.
>>
>> >my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
>> >and not let the business take advantage of him.
>>
>> Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>>
>> >Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
>>
>> Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
>> You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>>
>> >So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify
>any scam,
>> >any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal
>activity.
>>
>> Asked and answered.
>>
>> > You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
>>
>> Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
>>
>>
>
>You know, I do agree with some of what you say especially regarding the way
>businesses operate. I have no idea how I got dragged into this whole stupid
>argument and I am not going to provide a line by line response. Here is the
>essense of what I am saying though:
>
>Most of the customers do come to get a noise fixed and happy to leave the
>shop with the noise gone. I never said it was illegal or scam or fraud to
>mark up parts and a doubling the price is indeed normal. We are not talking
>about double mark up though, the internet store selling me the same WP for
>$70 does make a profit too, probably the same double markup, and unlike
>shops they have to order them, stock them, ship them etc - really lots of
>work involved. In this example the true cost of the part is likely about
>$35, so charging $170 for it is OUTRAGEOUS).
D O G - I hate to break it to you, but 4x marks on Cost of Goods Sold
is typical business practice for retailers. Of course, that is after
the tier-one and tier-two distributors get their share. For higher
quality parts or designs, the retail mark can go to 10x. So, a $35
part selling at $170 is a 4.85x mark...not really outrageous.
>Anyway, they may be happy that there is no noise, but lots of them do
>grumble that it cost them a small fortune to get it fixed. That's especially
>applicable to Audis and other german cars which are notoriously expensive in
>repair/maintenance.
Then buy a friggin' GM. If you can't afford to maintain it, then
maybe you shouldn't own it.
>All I did was suggested that an educated consumer can invest a little time,
>do a little research and save a significant amount of money on parts. And
>it's not that hard, really. I am NOT a car man, but I did it twice
>successfully and plan to do it again. (My first time was with rear brakes
>pads/rotors, dealer quoted $220 for parts plus tax, I got EOM pads and
>rotors for $100 on the internet including shipping). BTW stealer quoted 2
>hours of labor for brakes at $90 hr, my non-audi mechanic did it in one hour
>at $55. Total dealer quote - $400+tax = $425, I paid $160 for the same job.
It never hurts to shop around, but you seem to be of the typical
consumer mindset that price is everything and value is nothing. Good
business behavior is based on a "win-win" basis. No business man
likes a customer that constantly tries to squeeze his margins for the
same level of service.
>Yes, you are right, the dealership did not make (take) extra $265 from me,
>do you really think I am supposed to be upset about it. HAHAHAHAHA. I am
>delighted to be an educated consumer and will spend MY money on MY kids. As
>an extra bonus I learned a lot about cars in the process, so it's going to
>be harder for mechanics to rip me off in the future.
Correction. You are a mis-educated consumer, most likely a graduate
of the Wal-Mart University. Cheaper is better - this is a poor
person's mindset. Experience and quality comes at a cost and is worth
paying for. Why did you buy an Audi to begin with?!
>And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
>who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
>willing to do the job.
There won't be enough mechanics if everyone starts doing what you do.
If you make it hard to make a living at something, then that trade
will become more rare as vendors exit. Rarity eventually drives the
price right back up...and you are forced to deal with the very thing
you were trying to avoid. They may perform the job, but I'm sure they
remember exactly who you were. Don't expect any favors or any
preferential treatment because you do not behave like a good business
partner, so why should they behave that way? Give the small business
owner a break...eh?
Elroy
2000 S4
>
>"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
>news:8qhbkv8cidraeth35v4k75vnp71a3cfthn@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a
>parts
>> >dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a
>lot
>> >of hard work involved of course .
>>
>> Hitting machine with hammer: $20
>> Knowing where to hit it: $2480
>>
>> > but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
>> >does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
>>
>> You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
>> business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
>> they're tell you to kiss off.
>>
>> >Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
>>
>> I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>>
>> >Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for
>yourself if
>> >they do not care.
>>
>> The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
>> parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
>> expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
>> to buy it.
>>
>> Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
>> noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
>> tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
>>
>> Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
>> aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
>> of their knowledge.
>>
>> >For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between
>consenting
>> >adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
>> >the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
>> >voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation
>with
>> >parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better
>off
>> >with getting their own parts.
>>
>> You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
>> standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
>> fraud? Come on.
>>
>> >Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
>>
>> There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
>> time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
>> parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
>> his business.
>>
>> >Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
>> >also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills
>for
>> >his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
>> >breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
>> >things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic
>to
>> >all or any of this?
>>
>> Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
>> charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
>> to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
>> how the system works.
>>
>> I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
>> should stop that.
>>
>> >Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
>> >the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
>>
>> Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
>> while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
>> listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
>> are not free.
>>
>> We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>>
>> >That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is
>indeed
>> >how the business works.
>>
>> QED.
>>
>> >I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
>>
>> The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
>> mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
>> mechanic.
>>
>> >my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
>> >and not let the business take advantage of him.
>>
>> Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>>
>> >Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
>>
>> Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
>> You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>>
>> >So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify
>any scam,
>> >any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal
>activity.
>>
>> Asked and answered.
>>
>> > You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
>>
>> Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
>>
>>
>
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
> www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
> am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
> doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
> his expertise is worth.
Did you actually read where this whole conversation started? I was not
talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
the internet. I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
(And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
parts).
I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
well. Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off. And when JPF states, that
he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
> www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
> am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
> doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
> his expertise is worth.
Did you actually read where this whole conversation started? I was not
talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
the internet. I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
(And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
parts).
I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
well. Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off. And when JPF states, that
he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 21:42:09 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
>> www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
>> am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
>> doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
>> his expertise is worth.
>
>Did you actually read where this whole conversation started? I was not
>talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
>for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
>the internet. I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
>they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
>(And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
>parts).
>
>I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
>well. Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off. And when JPF states, that
>he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
>him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
>to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
>there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
>
>
>
>
>
Profit. Bad word.
Marx is dead. He and his stupid idea was DOA and killed millions in
the process of learning that profit is good.
Bad DOG. Sit. Sit. Down. Stay. And shut up. Your barking is
bothersome.
>> Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
>> www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
>> am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
>> doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
>> his expertise is worth.
>
>Did you actually read where this whole conversation started? I was not
>talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
>for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
>the internet. I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
>they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
>(And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
>parts).
>
>I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
>well. Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off. And when JPF states, that
>he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
>him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
>to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
>there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
>
>
>
>
>
Profit. Bad word.
Marx is dead. He and his stupid idea was DOA and killed millions in
the process of learning that profit is good.
Bad DOG. Sit. Sit. Down. Stay. And shut up. Your barking is
bothersome.
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<R6w1b.156312$_R5.59520338@news4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net>...
> > Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
> > www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
> > am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
> > doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
> > his expertise is worth.
>
> Did you actually read where this whole conversation started?
Yes. And if you weren't a complete moron, you'd have known that JPF
and I have discussed this very topic before.
Now, get down off your high horse and listen up:
> I was not
> talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
> for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
> the internet.
And when you take this to the stealership, they say "hey, fine - and
not only that, we'll put our most experienced tech on it, and only
charge you the time he works on it!"
Uhhh, no. If you're going to install it yourself, fine. If not,
don't take it to JPF's place. If he charges exactly what the dealer
does, then WTF is the problem? Do you think he gets free shipping?
Is the storage free? His time to order it? His knowledge on how to
get it as fast as possible? Isn't that worth something?
> I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
> they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
> (And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
> parts).
And if you do the job yourself, congratulations - you saved a big
chunk of money. Hey, maybe you missed a minor detail that'll blow up
your motor later, but hey *you saved $250!*
Well done!
I'm not sure why you're whining about JPF's business practices. It's
his place to do whatever he wants, and if you don't like it - tough
. Get over it already.
> I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
> well.
Or maybe they are making a minimal profit. How in the hell do you
know?
> Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off.
Fine. Buy your own and install it yourself. No big deal.
> And when JPF states, that
> he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
> him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
> to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
> there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
Right. So all your bitching about JPF's policy is exact what? And
does exactly what?
Nothing.
Spider
> > Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
> > www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
> > am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
> > doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
> > his expertise is worth.
>
> Did you actually read where this whole conversation started?
Yes. And if you weren't a complete moron, you'd have known that JPF
and I have discussed this very topic before.
Now, get down off your high horse and listen up:
> I was not
> talking about a $2 markup. I was talking about a water pump, which is sold
> for $170 by dealerships but is available (exactly same OEM WP) for $70 on
> the internet.
And when you take this to the stealership, they say "hey, fine - and
not only that, we'll put our most experienced tech on it, and only
charge you the time he works on it!"
Uhhh, no. If you're going to install it yourself, fine. If not,
don't take it to JPF's place. If he charges exactly what the dealer
does, then WTF is the problem? Do you think he gets free shipping?
Is the storage free? His time to order it? His knowledge on how to
get it as fast as possible? Isn't that worth something?
> I was talking about parts for the whole TB/WP job, for which
> they charge $500, but which can cost you $250 if you buy them on your own
> (And I assure you, I am talking about exactly same brand new EOM or better
> parts).
And if you do the job yourself, congratulations - you saved a big
chunk of money. Hey, maybe you missed a minor detail that'll blow up
your motor later, but hey *you saved $250!*
Well done!
I'm not sure why you're whining about JPF's business practices. It's
his place to do whatever he wants, and if you don't like it - tough
. Get over it already.
> I presume that the internet store is making a nice profit on the purchase as
> well.
Or maybe they are making a minimal profit. How in the hell do you
know?
> Yeah, I do consider $170 for WP a rip-off.
Fine. Buy your own and install it yourself. No big deal.
> And when JPF states, that
> he would not accept a customer with his own parts, cause it would deprive
> him of his extra "hidden" profit all I can say is that it is absolutely up
> to him and his customers, but there are lots of qualified machanics out
> there willing to do the job for their hourly labor rates.
Right. So all your bitching about JPF's policy is exact what? And
does exactly what?
Nothing.
Spider
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> > Did you actually read where this whole conversation started?
>
> Yes. And if you weren't a complete moron, you'd have known that JPF
> and I have discussed this very topic before.
Lot's of people are functionally illiterate, they can read but they do not
understand what they are reading. You are obviously one of them. And why do
you think I should know what you discuss with JPF. Who the do you think
you are, a friggin celebrity? Not really, just lowly little spider, that's
it.
> I'm not sure why you're whining about JPF's business practices. It's
> his place to do whatever he wants, and if you don't like it - tough
> . Get over it already.
I do not know who JPF is, what he does, what kind of business he runs etc.
And I do not care to find out either. I did not whine about his business
practices and did not know he existed until HE attacked my post. I was
merely responding to his attack and his incorrect IMO arguments.
So go back to fifth grade where you dropped out and take some comprehension
classes.
>
> Yes. And if you weren't a complete moron, you'd have known that JPF
> and I have discussed this very topic before.
Lot's of people are functionally illiterate, they can read but they do not
understand what they are reading. You are obviously one of them. And why do
you think I should know what you discuss with JPF. Who the do you think
you are, a friggin celebrity? Not really, just lowly little spider, that's
it.
> I'm not sure why you're whining about JPF's business practices. It's
> his place to do whatever he wants, and if you don't like it - tough
> . Get over it already.
I do not know who JPF is, what he does, what kind of business he runs etc.
And I do not care to find out either. I did not whine about his business
practices and did not know he existed until HE attacked my post. I was
merely responding to his attack and his incorrect IMO arguments.
So go back to fifth grade where you dropped out and take some comprehension
classes.
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:17:34 GMT, @tater.cu (Richard Potato)
wrote:
>Pronto: you are in the wrong NG. Your reply is well considered and
>well written but waaaay too political for this NG. Oh, and witty too.
Sorry about that.
Audi good...ugh ugh ugh.
Better?
wrote:
>Pronto: you are in the wrong NG. Your reply is well considered and
>well written but waaaay too political for this NG. Oh, and witty too.
Sorry about that.
Audi good...ugh ugh ugh.
Better?
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 17:32:24 +0100, Peter Bell
<peter@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem
>to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
Not only that, they cram their entire replies into the subject line
all the time. Annoying.
<peter@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem
>to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
Not only that, they cram their entire replies into the subject line
all the time. Annoying.
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bxq1b.152495$_R5.58448597@news4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net>...
> > But in fact you are costing us money. a) by consuming bandwidth and b)
> > by pissing off a guy who has made uncounted helpful contributions in
> > this group FREE OF CHARGE.
>
> You guys are a class act.
And you're better, how?
> I posted a suggestion to save some money by buying
> parts on the internet.
It's a fine suggestion. I do it myself. No problem so far...
> That's all I did.
Oops, I guess here's where you lose your memory. Saying that charging
retail is a "ripoff" is where you stepped on your .
> Since when suggesting how to save
> money is a bad thing to do?
When you accuse folks like JPF of being dishonest.
> A couple of guys figure out that it will cut in
> their profits and get all worked up about it.
After you call them scammers, what did you expect? Kisses?
> So what, this does not make me
> wrong.
Sure it does. Being frugal is not the same as claiming people are
"ripping you off."
> You do not have to use my suggestion of course, be my guest, pay the
> full (list) price on parts but do not blame me for the fact the guy is
> pissed off.
Since you are the one throwing around accusations, maybe you should
just shut up while you are behind.
> For the record his contributions to this NG in the last half a
> year were virtually nonexistant - long before I made my post.
And yours have been non-existent forever. So shut up already.
>
> > I for my part prefer a mechanic who does the job _right_. I can find
> > enough idiots who would charge me the same for bad work.
> >
> That makes both of us. I also prefer competent mechanics and I am happy to
> pay premium in terms of his hourly rate.
Out of pocket, what difference does it make if a guy has a lower shop
rate, but charges list on parts? That's right, NOTHING. So get over
it, already.
> What exactly does it have to do
> with rip-off prices on Audi parts at Audi dealerships?
If you don't like to pay, don't. If you think Audi parts are
expensive, you don't know about car parts. Price out BMW or M-B
parts sometime. Lexus, Acura, etc., etc. They're all right in there
with Audi. If you don't like it, buy an early '80s VW, and fix the
damn thing yourself.
I understand that "you don't get it." It's idiots like you that make
independent mechanics look at everyone who walks through the door as a
cheapskate .
Spider
> > But in fact you are costing us money. a) by consuming bandwidth and b)
> > by pissing off a guy who has made uncounted helpful contributions in
> > this group FREE OF CHARGE.
>
> You guys are a class act.
And you're better, how?
> I posted a suggestion to save some money by buying
> parts on the internet.
It's a fine suggestion. I do it myself. No problem so far...
> That's all I did.
Oops, I guess here's where you lose your memory. Saying that charging
retail is a "ripoff" is where you stepped on your .
> Since when suggesting how to save
> money is a bad thing to do?
When you accuse folks like JPF of being dishonest.
> A couple of guys figure out that it will cut in
> their profits and get all worked up about it.
After you call them scammers, what did you expect? Kisses?
> So what, this does not make me
> wrong.
Sure it does. Being frugal is not the same as claiming people are
"ripping you off."
> You do not have to use my suggestion of course, be my guest, pay the
> full (list) price on parts but do not blame me for the fact the guy is
> pissed off.
Since you are the one throwing around accusations, maybe you should
just shut up while you are behind.
> For the record his contributions to this NG in the last half a
> year were virtually nonexistant - long before I made my post.
And yours have been non-existent forever. So shut up already.
>
> > I for my part prefer a mechanic who does the job _right_. I can find
> > enough idiots who would charge me the same for bad work.
> >
> That makes both of us. I also prefer competent mechanics and I am happy to
> pay premium in terms of his hourly rate.
Out of pocket, what difference does it make if a guy has a lower shop
rate, but charges list on parts? That's right, NOTHING. So get over
it, already.
> What exactly does it have to do
> with rip-off prices on Audi parts at Audi dealerships?
If you don't like to pay, don't. If you think Audi parts are
expensive, you don't know about car parts. Price out BMW or M-B
parts sometime. Lexus, Acura, etc., etc. They're all right in there
with Audi. If you don't like it, buy an early '80s VW, and fix the
damn thing yourself.
I understand that "you don't get it." It's idiots like you that make
independent mechanics look at everyone who walks through the door as a
cheapskate .
Spider