Audi A4 timing belt
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
In message <v74ckv8h1sami225l67iunnne1o2rj6d2n@4ax.com>
JPF <frickjpremovetheobvious@theoffice.net> wrote:
> F****** idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer.
.... and that's how the rest of us lose out - JPF is one of the most
helpful and knowledgeable guys around here.
Thanks DOG!
--
Peter Bell - peter@bellfamily.org.uk
JPF <frickjpremovetheobvious@theoffice.net> wrote:
> F****** idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer.
.... and that's how the rest of us lose out - JPF is one of the most
helpful and knowledgeable guys around here.
Thanks DOG!
--
Peter Bell - peter@bellfamily.org.uk
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"JPF" <frickjpremovetheobvious@theoffice.net> wrote in message
news:v74ckv8h1sami225l67iunnne1o2rj6d2n@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:14:53 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> May I remind you that you are exactly the type of moron who will never
> be my customer.
Oh my god, so I will never be priveledged to be overcharged by you? I will
now be forced to go to another shop where they will do exactly the same job
for half the price. I am so distressed, I'll never be able to get over this
terrible loss.
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:01:46 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
>who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
>willing to do the job.
This is where you are totally wrong. There are very few people
becoming "mechanics" these days. Any old Moron with some Sears tools
can't cut it any more. Shops and dealerships cannot find any. At any
price. I still get a few offers a year.
Why would anyone volunteer to take from ******** all day long
if you can make more money at Dairy Queen? When's the last time some
idiot told you how to do your job?
Your average technician doesn't make squat until they have 10 years
or so under their belt. They start at under $20K. The bennies suck.
They can make a good living if they are good, and if they're
specialized. They still need a college education. They still need
electrical training. They still need $50,000 worth of tools. All for
what? To make $50g / year if they are excellent after 10 years on the
job? it. Spend the wasted 10 years in school, mis-diagnose 50%
of your cases, kill people, and still bring home 7 digits. No
expenses, no hassles, no idiots. And preferred parking. Are you
going to bring your own thread the next time you need stitches?
>And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
>who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
>willing to do the job.
This is where you are totally wrong. There are very few people
becoming "mechanics" these days. Any old Moron with some Sears tools
can't cut it any more. Shops and dealerships cannot find any. At any
price. I still get a few offers a year.
Why would anyone volunteer to take from ******** all day long
if you can make more money at Dairy Queen? When's the last time some
idiot told you how to do your job?
Your average technician doesn't make squat until they have 10 years
or so under their belt. They start at under $20K. The bennies suck.
They can make a good living if they are good, and if they're
specialized. They still need a college education. They still need
electrical training. They still need $50,000 worth of tools. All for
what? To make $50g / year if they are excellent after 10 years on the
job? it. Spend the wasted 10 years in school, mis-diagnose 50%
of your cases, kill people, and still bring home 7 digits. No
expenses, no hassles, no idiots. And preferred parking. Are you
going to bring your own thread the next time you need stitches?
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> But in fact you are costing us money. a) by consuming bandwidth and b)
> by pissing off a guy who has made uncounted helpful contributions in
> this group FREE OF CHARGE.
You guys are a class act. I posted a suggestion to save some money by buying
parts on the internet. That's all I did. Since when suggesting how to save
money is a bad thing to do? A couple of guys figure out that it will cut in
their profits and get all worked up about it. So what, this does not make me
wrong. You do not have to use my suggestion of course, be my guest, pay the
full (list) price on parts but do not blame me for the fact the guy is
pissed off. For the record his contributions to this NG in the last half a
year were virtually nonexistant - long before I made my post.
> I for my part prefer a mechanic who does the job _right_. I can find
> enough idiots who would charge me the same for bad work.
That makes both of us. I also prefer competent mechanics and I am happy to
pay premium in terms of his hourly rate. What exactly does it have to do
with rip-off prices on Audi parts at Audi dealerships?
> by pissing off a guy who has made uncounted helpful contributions in
> this group FREE OF CHARGE.
You guys are a class act. I posted a suggestion to save some money by buying
parts on the internet. That's all I did. Since when suggesting how to save
money is a bad thing to do? A couple of guys figure out that it will cut in
their profits and get all worked up about it. So what, this does not make me
wrong. You do not have to use my suggestion of course, be my guest, pay the
full (list) price on parts but do not blame me for the fact the guy is
pissed off. For the record his contributions to this NG in the last half a
year were virtually nonexistant - long before I made my post.
> I for my part prefer a mechanic who does the job _right_. I can find
> enough idiots who would charge me the same for bad work.
That makes both of us. I also prefer competent mechanics and I am happy to
pay premium in terms of his hourly rate. What exactly does it have to do
with rip-off prices on Audi parts at Audi dealerships?
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"JPF" <frickjpremovetheobvious@theoffice.net> wrote in message
news:btackv0jsqf5v07f6ufpq29uns6hu2qa0p@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:01:46 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
> >who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without
attitudes
> >willing to do the job.
>
> This is where you are totally wrong. There are very few people
> becoming "mechanics" these days. Any old Moron with some Sears tools
> can't cut it any more.
You keep trying to prove that there is a relationship between mechanics'
skills and his willingness to accept customers with their own parts. This is
where we disagree, there is no relationship. Just because a mechanic will
install parts provided by a customer does not automatically make him
incompetent. Just because a mechanic refuses to take a customer with parts
does not make him an expert either.
> Why would anyone volunteer to take from ******** all day long
> if you can make more money at Dairy Queen? When's the last time some
> idiot told you how to do your job?
> Your average technician doesn't make squat until they have 10 years
> or so under their belt. They start at under $20K. The bennies suck.
I have no doubts whatsoever that life of a car mechanic is not an easy one.
I just don't believe that the owner of a dealership is also hurting. They
are screwing their employees on salary and bennies, they are screwing their
customers on hourly rates, price of parts, the amount of time a job will
take etc. Just because customers get overcharged on parts does not mean that
the mechanic's lot will improve, it only means that the owner will take an
extra trip to Hawaii.
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"Peter Bell" <peter@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:e2a3fa254c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> In message <v74ckv8h1sami225l67iunnne1o2rj6d2n@4ax.com>
> JPF <frickjpremovetheobvious@theoffice.net> wrote:
>
> > F****** idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer.
>
> ... and that's how the rest of us lose out - JPF is one of the most
> helpful and knowledgeable guys around here.
>
> Thanks DOG!
My pleasure.
If you do need advise though, go to a place where audi enthusiasts hang
out - http://www.audiworld.com/forum/ You'll find more free advise then you
can handle, including where to buy parts on your own, what parts are
better/worse then OEM parts, how to install them on your own, why
stealerships suck, how people get ripped off on car repairs and how to get a
better deal.
And there is no need to kiss anybody's butt, and there are no primadonnas
threatening to leave just because somebody disagreed with them.
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
In message <Bhr1b.152839$_R5.58585676@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net >
"D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Peter Bell" <peter@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:e2a3fa254c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> > Thanks DOG!
>
> My pleasure.
>
> If you do need advise though
What I normally need is advice (advise is a verb!).
> , go to a place where audi enthusiasts hang
> out - http://www.audiworld.com/forum/
Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem
to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
I think I'll stick with rs6.com, thanks - at least the people there are
friendly and knowledgeable on my particular model.
--
Peter Bell - peter@bellfamily.org.uk
"D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Peter Bell" <peter@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:e2a3fa254c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> > Thanks DOG!
>
> My pleasure.
>
> If you do need advise though
What I normally need is advice (advise is a verb!).
> , go to a place where audi enthusiasts hang
> out - http://www.audiworld.com/forum/
Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem
to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
I think I'll stick with rs6.com, thanks - at least the people there are
friendly and knowledgeable on my particular model.
--
Peter Bell - peter@bellfamily.org.uk
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> What I normally need is advice (advise is a verb!).
> Hmmm - I've looked at audiworld, there's some good info, but there seem
> to be a great number of people who are just as big pratts as you are.
>
> I think I'll stick with rs6.com, thanks - at least the people there are
> friendly and knowledgeable on my particular model.
Glad to know you are not going to be left totally helpless with JPF leaving
all because of me.
Thanks for advice on advice vs advise. English is actually my third language
and I do appreciate people correcting my mistakes.
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 03:54:05 GMT, Pronto Breakneck
<no_address@example.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:14:53 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>May I remind you that you are a mechanic, not an auto parts store. You make
>>a living by selling your labor, not parts.
>
>Those two activities are not mutually exclusive.
>
>>If there is not enough money for you in this business - >raise your
>>hourly rate.
>
>Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in
>addition to being a mechanic. For example, you could operate a tow
>truck service. Or, you could rent moving vans. Or - oh, wow, what a
>fantastic idea - you could source parts for customer repairs and mark
>them up as the market will bear.
>
>oh, wait.
>
>>double/tripple charging parts to your ignorant customers.
>
>His ignorant customers don't need a white knight. All of the
>information they need to become less ignorant is available to them.
>
>Besides, who knows if this is actually ignorance. Maybe they just
>don't care.
>
>> And just because everybody does it does not make it right.
>
>Hm, a voluntary business transaction between two consenting adults. I
>don't really think that needs anything to make it "right". At any
>rate, your opinion isn't going to make it "wrong" regardless of how
>vociferously that opinion is delivered.
>
>>Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop across
>>the street
>
>Well, go there then. Really. No one cares.
>
>> and they are as good as you are, likely better.
>
>Illogical.
>
>Two mechanics: one is busy, one is idle.
>
> The busy mechanic is making money on parts and labor, working as many
>hours as he wants.
>
>The idle mechanic has a few free hours every day. He'd like to work
>more hours.
>
>Which mechanic is more likely to accept customer-supplied parts? The
>idle mechanic. He was planning on spending this afternoon looking at
>his shoes anyway, so he'd be happy to make the extra money by
>installing your part for you.
>
>By using customer-supplied parts, the busy mechanic actually profits
>less for a given time period. If he wasn't working with the
>customer-supplied parts, he'd be working on someone else's car,
>getting a margin on the parts.
>
>So, which one is the better mechanic? More important, do you commonly
>eat at restaurants with empty parking lots?
>
>> But I am sure that in majority of cases
>>people intelligent enough to know that they can get their own parts also
>>know what parts they need, where to order them how much they cost and other
>>details.
>
>Say, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>
>>And you know what, you yourself know what parts they need. Why don't you
>>tell your customers what parts they should get. It'd take you 5 minutes to
>>write down the part numbers
>
>Great, that leaves him with 95 more five minute periods in the work
>day.
>
>>and I am sure your customers would be happy to pay for your time and be
>> delighted with your approach.
>
>Of course they would. After all, they already appear perfectly happy
>to pay him for his time in the form of parts markups.
>
>>How much do
>>you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
>
>He probably charges what the market will bear. That's how business
>works.
>
>I could be way off base here, though. I mean, he really could be
>kidnapping people and their cars, dragging them away to his secret
>mountain lair, and refusing to release them until they've paid to have
>their ECU reset.
>
>I myself spent nearly three years locked up at a Speedy Muffler, where
>they fed me bread and water and regularly beat me. I was finally
>released after I agreed to have a chrome exhaust tip installed.
>
>>If it's a couple of bucks as you say, you
>>might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference.
>
>Actually, right up there, you were talking about a $100 difference.
>
>>Quite an expensive warranty, isn't it?
>
>That depends on whether or not it's cheaper than having him replace it
>in six months.
>
>
Pronto: you are in the wrong NG. Your reply is well considered and
well written but waaaay too political for this NG. Oh, and witty too.
Let the market rule. Death to statists.
<no_address@example.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:14:53 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>May I remind you that you are a mechanic, not an auto parts store. You make
>>a living by selling your labor, not parts.
>
>Those two activities are not mutually exclusive.
>
>>If there is not enough money for you in this business - >raise your
>>hourly rate.
>
>Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in
>addition to being a mechanic. For example, you could operate a tow
>truck service. Or, you could rent moving vans. Or - oh, wow, what a
>fantastic idea - you could source parts for customer repairs and mark
>them up as the market will bear.
>
>oh, wait.
>
>>double/tripple charging parts to your ignorant customers.
>
>His ignorant customers don't need a white knight. All of the
>information they need to become less ignorant is available to them.
>
>Besides, who knows if this is actually ignorance. Maybe they just
>don't care.
>
>> And just because everybody does it does not make it right.
>
>Hm, a voluntary business transaction between two consenting adults. I
>don't really think that needs anything to make it "right". At any
>rate, your opinion isn't going to make it "wrong" regardless of how
>vociferously that opinion is delivered.
>
>>Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop across
>>the street
>
>Well, go there then. Really. No one cares.
>
>> and they are as good as you are, likely better.
>
>Illogical.
>
>Two mechanics: one is busy, one is idle.
>
> The busy mechanic is making money on parts and labor, working as many
>hours as he wants.
>
>The idle mechanic has a few free hours every day. He'd like to work
>more hours.
>
>Which mechanic is more likely to accept customer-supplied parts? The
>idle mechanic. He was planning on spending this afternoon looking at
>his shoes anyway, so he'd be happy to make the extra money by
>installing your part for you.
>
>By using customer-supplied parts, the busy mechanic actually profits
>less for a given time period. If he wasn't working with the
>customer-supplied parts, he'd be working on someone else's car,
>getting a margin on the parts.
>
>So, which one is the better mechanic? More important, do you commonly
>eat at restaurants with empty parking lots?
>
>> But I am sure that in majority of cases
>>people intelligent enough to know that they can get their own parts also
>>know what parts they need, where to order them how much they cost and other
>>details.
>
>Say, did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>
>>And you know what, you yourself know what parts they need. Why don't you
>>tell your customers what parts they should get. It'd take you 5 minutes to
>>write down the part numbers
>
>Great, that leaves him with 95 more five minute periods in the work
>day.
>
>>and I am sure your customers would be happy to pay for your time and be
>> delighted with your approach.
>
>Of course they would. After all, they already appear perfectly happy
>to pay him for his time in the form of parts markups.
>
>>How much do
>>you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
>
>He probably charges what the market will bear. That's how business
>works.
>
>I could be way off base here, though. I mean, he really could be
>kidnapping people and their cars, dragging them away to his secret
>mountain lair, and refusing to release them until they've paid to have
>their ECU reset.
>
>I myself spent nearly three years locked up at a Speedy Muffler, where
>they fed me bread and water and regularly beat me. I was finally
>released after I agreed to have a chrome exhaust tip installed.
>
>>If it's a couple of bucks as you say, you
>>might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference.
>
>Actually, right up there, you were talking about a $100 difference.
>
>>Quite an expensive warranty, isn't it?
>
>That depends on whether or not it's cheaper than having him replace it
>in six months.
>
>
Pronto: you are in the wrong NG. Your reply is well considered and
well written but waaaay too political for this NG. Oh, and witty too.
Let the market rule. Death to statists.
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Rrh1b.148524$_R5.56866582@news4.srv.hcvlny.c v.net>...
> > Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in
> > addition to being a mechanic."
> Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic?
You're kidding, right? Do you understand the expertise required?
Modern cars, and Audis especially, are very complicated with many
interdependent systems. Diagnosing (properly) a problem is 90% of
what you are buying. Any monkey can replace parts until they luck
upon the right one.
> By calling a parts
> dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client?
What's a reasonable mark-up? From wholesale, most places will
up-charge 100% of the wholesale price. But *you* can't get the
wholesale price, so what are you complaining about? If JPF is
charging $6 for a Mahle filter, and you can get them for $3.75, maybe
you should just change your own oil. But if he can replace a
waterpump in 2 hours (for example) that would take you all day, or
that the dealer would charge a book of 3.5hrs (or whatever) are you
going to begrudge him the extra $30 you save by buying the very same
part on-line?
> That's a lot
> of hard work involved of course
And you feel cheated, why? If the work is hard, and you're willing to
pay someone else to do it, why not help him stay in business? I do a
lot of my own stuff. I save a ton of money by doing a lot of simple
maintenence tasks on my own. Even some repairs - ones that don't
require a computer hook-up to diagnose. So when my guy charges me $40
extra on a part, I'm not too upset, considering that to buy a computer
and the software, I might be out 2 orders of magnitude more cash. Or
three.
Plus, he gets it done while I am doing other things. Like playing
with my kids.
> Is it illegal? Not really
Stop right there. The answer is, in fact, "no."
It's perfectly legal.
> but the
> fact that not only do they not advertise this activity as does every
> reputable business
What's the markup on a shirt from, oh, Macy's? Don't know? I guess
all businesses DON'T tell you the mark-up, huh? Like "none."
> but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
> does not realize that he gets double charged on parts - this alone betrays
> shady side of the transaction.
Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
his expertise is worth. As do you, or any other informed consumer.
And if you don't like the way he does it, go find a mechanic whose
practices you do like. If JPF's business practices alienate enough
customers, he'll not be in business any more - that's the way
capitalism works.
Spider
> > Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in
> > addition to being a mechanic."
> Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic?
You're kidding, right? Do you understand the expertise required?
Modern cars, and Audis especially, are very complicated with many
interdependent systems. Diagnosing (properly) a problem is 90% of
what you are buying. Any monkey can replace parts until they luck
upon the right one.
> By calling a parts
> dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client?
What's a reasonable mark-up? From wholesale, most places will
up-charge 100% of the wholesale price. But *you* can't get the
wholesale price, so what are you complaining about? If JPF is
charging $6 for a Mahle filter, and you can get them for $3.75, maybe
you should just change your own oil. But if he can replace a
waterpump in 2 hours (for example) that would take you all day, or
that the dealer would charge a book of 3.5hrs (or whatever) are you
going to begrudge him the extra $30 you save by buying the very same
part on-line?
> That's a lot
> of hard work involved of course
And you feel cheated, why? If the work is hard, and you're willing to
pay someone else to do it, why not help him stay in business? I do a
lot of my own stuff. I save a ton of money by doing a lot of simple
maintenence tasks on my own. Even some repairs - ones that don't
require a computer hook-up to diagnose. So when my guy charges me $40
extra on a part, I'm not too upset, considering that to buy a computer
and the software, I might be out 2 orders of magnitude more cash. Or
three.
Plus, he gets it done while I am doing other things. Like playing
with my kids.
> Is it illegal? Not really
Stop right there. The answer is, in fact, "no."
It's perfectly legal.
> but the
> fact that not only do they not advertise this activity as does every
> reputable business
What's the markup on a shirt from, oh, Macy's? Don't know? I guess
all businesses DON'T tell you the mark-up, huh? Like "none."
> but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
> does not realize that he gets double charged on parts - this alone betrays
> shady side of the transaction.
Oh, please. If I can get some specific spark plugs from
www.audiquattroparts.com for $5 each, and JPF is selling them at $8, I
am not getting ripped off. If he is selling them at $20 each, and
doing that for all of his parts, then I really have to weigh how much
his expertise is worth. As do you, or any other informed consumer.
And if you don't like the way he does it, go find a mechanic whose
practices you do like. If JPF's business practices alienate enough
customers, he'll not be in business any more - that's the way
capitalism works.
Spider