86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

Thanks and congratulations to those who suggested a broken timing belt.
Well, really thanks to everybody who chimed in--I appreciate your help
so much.

My wife finally got home from a 3-week trip, so I had somebody to spin
the motor while I watched the cam thru the oil filler. It's funny I
didn't recognize the change in the engine sound as it cranked. Maybe
because it's always started on about the first half rotation!

So now I have to decide if I want to take this on myself or not. It
might be worth the cost of renting a tow trailer for a 40 mile pull to a
shop with experience (in Madison, WI). I'll have to make some phone
calls. On the other hand, if you guys tell me it's not that big a deal,
maybe I'll tear into it. The Haynes manual does cover the job,

miguelito

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

Well congrats on finding out WHAT is wrong. Now you know the sound it makes
when the belt breaks! lol

You might want to take it to a shop that deals with either VWs or Audis.

OR of course can be done by you if you are up to a little challenge AND a
good learning experience. Not sure if I have ever done a timing belt for a
5 cylinder engine in a 4000 body even though I owned a coupe/GT. There
should be enough room to do it easily though. The hardest part is
reinstalling the lower crankshaft pulley bolt tight enough so it does not
come off in a few months. You will have to lock down the
flywheel/driveplate and then you can torque down that bolt. I use a brake
spoon to lock the flywheel down through the upper access hole. Works quite
well too! :-)
To loosen that bolt you can use the tool or with a long flex bar and socket
the starter will provide enough torque to loosen up that bolt. Be careful
with this procedure though. ;-)

MAYBE your crank pulley will have four bolts on it that will allow it to
come off of the crank sprocket. THEN you don't have to deal with the bolt.
8^)

IIRC you will need:
timing belt
water pump (it adjusts the timing belt)
idler bearing
seals (if you are replacing them)
V-Belts (if they need replacing)
coolant

--
later,
(One out of many daves)

"miguelito" <migo_de_bajo@charter.not> wrote in message
news:migo_de_bajo-CFEABF.09194920082008@news.charter.net...
> Thanks and congratulations to those who suggested a broken timing belt.
> Well, really thanks to everybody who chimed in--I appreciate your help
> so much.
>
> My wife finally got home from a 3-week trip, so I had somebody to spin
> the motor while I watched the cam thru the oil filler. It's funny I
> didn't recognize the change in the engine sound as it cranked. Maybe
> because it's always started on about the first half rotation!
>
> So now I have to decide if I want to take this on myself or not. It
> might be worth the cost of renting a tow trailer for a 40 mile pull to a
> shop with experience (in Madison, WI). I'll have to make some phone
> calls. On the other hand, if you guys tell me it's not that big a deal,
> maybe I'll tear into it. The Haynes manual does cover the job,
>
> miguelito

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

One out of many daves wrote:
> Well congrats on finding out WHAT is wrong. Now you know the sound it makes
> when the belt breaks! lol
>
> You might want to take it to a shop that deals with either VWs or Audis.
>
> OR of course can be done by you if you are up to a little challenge AND a
> good learning experience. Not sure if I have ever done a timing belt for a
> 5 cylinder engine in a 4000 body even though I owned a coupe/GT. There
> should be enough room to do it easily though. The hardest part is
> reinstalling the lower crankshaft pulley bolt tight enough so it does not
> come off in a few months. You will have to lock down the
> flywheel/driveplate and then you can torque down that bolt. I use a brake
> spoon to lock the flywheel down through the upper access hole. Works quite
> well too! :-)
> To loosen that bolt you can use the tool or with a long flex bar and socket
> the starter will provide enough torque to loosen up that bolt. Be careful
> with this procedure though. ;-)
>
> MAYBE your crank pulley will have four bolts on it that will allow it to
> come off of the crank sprocket. THEN you don't have to deal with the bolt.
> 8^)
>
> IIRC you will need:
> timing belt
> water pump (it adjusts the timing belt)
> idler bearing
> seals (if you are replacing them)
> V-Belts (if they need replacing)
> coolant
>
>
I have done T belts for myself and friends on at least six T44s (5
cylinder inline).

It is fairly straight forward job that takes six ot eight hours for a
first timer with the right tools. The right tools include renting or
inventing a tool to hold the crankshaft for loosening the bolt ( most
seller of the parts will rent these for about $40 plus a deposit
Blaufernugen, north of Milwaukee is one good source for you in WI)

You may want to check with the parts sellers to confirm that your engine
is not an interference type which would have broken valves. I am quite
sure that it is not but you should check before buying parts or towing
to a mechanic if that it your choice.

I would guess that an independent mechanic would replace the T belt for
$600 - $700 including parts. Parts themselves from an on-line source
will probably be about $300 and add the cost of tool rental.

I am located in Minneapolis but occasionally get over your way.

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

WOW $300 for parts, I must have missed something on my list! lol
Or I just have not done a 5 cyl T-belt job in many years, so I am out of the
loop! ;-)

"TonyJ" <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote in message
news:zNKdnSxpcchv4THVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@posted.visi. ..
>
>
> One out of many daves wrote:
snip
>>
>> IIRC you will need:
>> timing belt
>> water pump (it adjusts the timing belt)
>> idler bearing
>> seals (if you are replacing them)
>> V-Belts (if they need replacing)
>> coolant
>>
>>
> I have done T belts for myself and friends on at least six T44s (5
> cylinder inline).
>
> It is fairly straight forward job that takes six ot eight hours for a
> first timer with the right tools. The right tools include renting or
> inventing a tool to hold the crankshaft for loosening the bolt ( most
> seller of the parts will rent these for about $40 plus a deposit
> Blaufernugen, north of Milwaukee is one good source for you in WI)
>
> You may want to check with the parts sellers to confirm that your engine
> is not an interference type which would have broken valves. I am quite
> sure that it is not but you should check before buying parts or towing to
> a mechanic if that it your choice.
>
> I would guess that an independent mechanic would replace the T belt for
> $600 - $700 including parts. Parts themselves from an on-line source will
> probably be about $300 and add the cost of tool rental.
>
> I am located in Minneapolis but occasionally get over your way.

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

In article <XMXqk.22130$N87.15529@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
"One out of many daves" <PLEASEvwdoc1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:

> IIRC you will need:
> timing belt
> water pump (it adjusts the timing belt)
> idler bearing
> seals (if you are replacing them)
> V-Belts (if they need replacing)
> coolant

Thanks Dave

Should I replace the water pump and idler bearing routinely, but seals
only if necessary? My front main seal leaks; this is probably the time
to replace that, I bet.

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

In article <zNKdnSxpcchv4THVnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@posted.visi>,
TonyJ <"tonyjnospam at nospam visi.com"> wrote:

> Blaufernugen

Yes, I've dealt with those fine folks. I think I remember they have
"kits" for timing belts and main seals...

Just quick found their website and it looks like they have something
that does include tool rental. Cool! Thanks. I'll explicitly ask whether
this is an interference motor. I didn't hear any clatter when it shut
down.

> I am located in Minneapolis

So you understand why I want to keep this thing going!

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

Well if your seal(s) are leaking then of course change them. Water pump is
a good idea since you are right there and might have to move it to adjust
the tension on the belt. About the same amount of labor that you will be
doing just buy a new water pump. Probably if you don't then it will go bad
in 3 months and you have to do almost all of this work again. 8^)


"miguelito" <migo_de_bajo@charter.not> wrote in message
news:migo_de_bajo-3DD398.21401020082008@news.charter.net...
> In article <XMXqk.22130$N87.15529@nlpi068.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> "One out of many daves" <PLEASEvwdoc1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> IIRC you will need:
>> timing belt
>> water pump (it adjusts the timing belt)
>> idler bearing
>> seals (if you are replacing them)
>> V-Belts (if they need replacing)
>> coolant
>
> Thanks Dave
>
> Should I replace the water pump and idler bearing routinely, but seals
> only if necessary? My front main seal leaks; this is probably the time
> to replace that, I bet.

Re: 86 4KQ diagnosis made!
 

Timing belts are extremely difficult to succesfully change unless you have experience in the area. The timing on the engine must be set exactly, or (unless non interference engine is present) the valves and the cylinder bores would collide, which would cause call for very expensive engine repair.


here are a few easy steps to do it
1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. Ensure you have your radio security code (if equipped) any preset radio stations and the time on a piece of paper to allow for quick resetting once repairs are made.)
2. Remove the distributor cap. (Most modern cars are "distributorless" electronic ignition types. They will have a cam position sensor instead. The important thing is to be able to determine "TDC" (Top Dead Center) on the #1 cylinder - which usually requires consultation of the engine repair manual which all differs by model.)
3. Using a wrench or socket on the crankshaft bolt rotate the engine until the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley is aligned with the 0° mark on the timing scale (This step assumes the timing belt is still intact). Under any circumstances do not do this on interference engines unless you are sure the belt is still in-tact. If you have not already bent your valves with a broken timing belt, you will likely do so if you spin the crankshaft without the camshaft spinning.
4. Verify the distributor rotor is aligned with the index mark on the distributor housing indicating the rotor is in position to fire the number one cylinder. If not, rotate the engine another full turn. (May require more turns in V6, V8 engines - see above comment about TDC.)
5. Remove any components or accessory drive belts that interfere with removing the timing belt cover. This varies by model; consult your service manual to determine which parts need to be removed from your vehicle. (This step involves removal of the crankshaft pulley, which may require a "pulley puller". See also comment below on special tools.)
6. Remove the bolts or screws holding the timing cover in place, and lift the cover off the engine. Some engines have a two-piece timing cover.
7. Check for proper alignment of the crank and camshaft timing marks.
8. NOTE: Many engines have a dot or index line on the pulleys or sprockets that must be lined up with corresponding marks on the block, cylinder head, or accessory shaft. On some engines, the index mark on the camshaft sprocket aligns with the parting line of the first camshaft-bearing tower. This is very important if you're replacing a timing belt that has broken. Consult your service manual for the correct alignment procedure for your vehicle and correct any misalignment before installing the new timing belt. (See comment above on TDC.)
9. CAUTION: Check the area around the belt for signs of oil leakage from the cam and crank seals, valve cover and oil pan. Check for coolant leaks from the water pump and water pump by-pass hose. Leaks must be repaired before the new belt is installed.
10. Loosen the timing belt tensioner.
11. NOTE: Some vehicles may require a special tool to reach tensioner mounting bolts hidden by components such as motor mounts. Some engines require a special tool to release a spring-loaded timing belt tensioner. However, most engines have a spring-loaded tensioner that can be operated using common tools in the following manner.
12. Loosen the mounting bolt(s) holding the belt tensioner but do not remove it.
13. Pry the tensioner away from the belt and then retighten the mounting bolt(s)to hold the tensioner in the loose position.
14. Examine the tensioner pulley for damage such as dents or cracks.
15. Spin the tensioner pulley and listen for a rattle or humming noise that would indicate loose or worn bearings. Uneven wear at the rear of the old timing belt could indicate a misalignment between the tension pulley and timing belt due to worn bearings. If any indications of damage or worn bearings are found, replace the tensioner pulley.
16. With the tension on the timing belt relieved, the belt should slide easily off the sprockets. Timing belts that have been used for a long time may stick in the pulley grooves and require some gentle prying with a screwdriver to release.
17. When re-assembling, pay special attention to "torquing" specs on the engine manual, particularly the crankshaft pulley mounting bolt which usually has a very high torque spec.
18. If equipped with a hydraulic timing belt tensioner, removal may be required to compress the piston back into the cylinder. Place into a vise and compress until holes line up to allow the insertion of a holding pin. Once the pin is in place the tensioner can be re-installed.