Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"Peter Bell" <peter@invalid.org.uk> wrote in message
news:e90f77854c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> In message <103l0fv99j44555@news.supernews.com>
> Mike Smith <mike_UNDERSCORE_smith@acm.DOT.org> wrote:
>
> > John Opezdol wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, sorry. What I meant was "Is 4Motion a rebadged quattro?"
> >
> > If you're talking about the Passat 4Motion, then yes. If you're
> > referring to the Golf/Jetta/etc., then no.
>
> Why not? The '4Motion' system in the current Golf is exactly the same
> as the 'quattro' in the TT and A3 - that is, it's an electronically
> controlled Haldex clutch.
>
Is that similar to the system in the Subarus with automatic transmissions?
I never understood the claim that it has a 50/50 split front/rear.
Does VW/Audi make a similar claim for it's Haldex system?

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"John Opezdol" <chungachanga@howdoesitsoundtoyou.au> wrote in message
news:103l80t2uj6o9c4@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Peter Bell" <peter@invalid.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:e90f77854c.peter@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com...
> > In message <103l0fv99j44555@news.supernews.com>
> > Mike Smith <mike_UNDERSCORE_smith@acm.DOT.org> wrote:
> >
> > > John Opezdol wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Oh, sorry. What I meant was "Is 4Motion a rebadged quattro?"
> > >
> > > If you're talking about the Passat 4Motion, then yes. If you're
> > > referring to the Golf/Jetta/etc., then no.
> >
> > Why not? The '4Motion' system in the current Golf is exactly the same
> > as the 'quattro' in the TT and A3 - that is, it's an electronically
> > controlled Haldex clutch.
> >
> Is that similar to the system in the Subarus with automatic transmissions?
> I never understood the claim that it has a 50/50 split front/rear.
> Does VW/Audi make a similar claim for it's Haldex system?

More information is available from Haldex themselves, but - IIRC - the
"nominal" split is 95/5. This will then vary dynamically up to (again, IIRC)
60/40.

Whether or not this is "proper" Quattro is something that, I'm sure, will
continue to be debated. It *does* work very well, though, enabling you to
drift the car (with ESP turned off) and - in one memorable case - take the
car sideways when accelerating hard on what turned out to be a slippery
surface..[1]

On the Mk.I TT, you could feel the torque transfer..

--

Hairy One Kenobi

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!

[1] I'm not usually a complete hooligan, but after waiting 7 minutes to get
out onto the [UK] A4 at the start of a 12 minute journey..

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:6ZD_b.18508$ft.16666@newsfe1-win...
?
>
> More information is available from Haldex themselves, but - IIRC - the
> "nominal" split is 95/5. This will then vary dynamically up to (again,
IIRC)
> 60/40.
>
> Whether or not this is "proper" Quattro is something that, I'm sure, will
> continue to be debated. It *does* work very well, though, enabling you to
> drift the car (with ESP turned off) and - in one memorable case - take the
> car sideways when accelerating hard on what turned out to be a slippery
> surface..[1]

I can take a FWD car sideways on a slippery surface :-)
Does the system rob the front wheels off power quick enough?

> On the Mk.I TT, you could feel the torque transfer..
>
What is Mk.I TT (TT as in the Audi version of VW bug?)
What did you feel during the drift?

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"John Opezdol" <chungachanga@howdoesitsoundtoyou.au> wrote in message
news:103qanhce60u48c@news.supernews.com...
> "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:6ZD_b.18508$ft.16666@newsfe1-win...
> ?
> >
> > More information is available from Haldex themselves, but - IIRC - the
> > "nominal" split is 95/5. This will then vary dynamically up to (again,
> IIRC)
> > 60/40.
> >
> > Whether or not this is "proper" Quattro is something that, I'm sure,
will
> > continue to be debated. It *does* work very well, though, enabling you
to
> > drift the car (with ESP turned off) and - in one memorable case - take
the
> > car sideways when accelerating hard on what turned out to be a slippery
> > surface..[1]
>
> I can take a FWD car sideways on a slippery surface :-)
> Does the system rob the front wheels off power quick enough?

Different feeling, I suspect - a FWD "hunt" is more of a "where's the road"
sort of thing (in my experience), where this was a full RWD-style "try to
stop the rear overtaking the front" scenario.

> > On the Mk.I TT, you could feel the torque transfer..
> >
> What is Mk.I TT (TT as in the Audi version of VW bug?)
> What did you feel during the drift?

Mk.I was before the suspension mods, ESP, and spoiler. Having ordered on the
basis of the driving "feel", I was very disappointed that Audi agreed with
people that turn hard right at 100mph+ in the wet. I'm with Darwin on that
one ;o)

Drift is easy (I would guess in both cars, but didn't try it in the garage's
model!). Predictable and smooth, although I've found tyre choice to be very
important (put it this way, I'm not looking to buy ContiSports again.. just
started on my second set of S03s..)

The TTR drifts like a Westfield (in terms of balance) but you have to be a
bit braver when committing to a corner. [Obvious disclaimer: I'm not acting
like a complete nutter on public roads, but one needs to know the car's
weight-transfer, steering, braking, and "oops" responses under different
conditions before getting ambitious. I'm a self-confessed slow learner on
that one - I like to know the car first]

Not sure that the "bug" comment is /that/ valid, though - not having driven
one, I'd be unsure of the suspension (etc) differences; they're quite
noticeable between different TT marks, so I'd be surprised if they were less
so through different body styles. And then there's the floorpan difference..
(IIRC, the TT is shorter but still unbelievably wide.. and more than double
the weight of a Westie!)

H1K

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

Peter Bell wrote:

> In message <103l0fv99j44555@news.supernews.com>
> Mike Smith <mike_UNDERSCORE_smith@acm.DOT.org> wrote:
>
>
>>John Opezdol wrote:
>>
>>>Oh, sorry. What I meant was "Is 4Motion a rebadged quattro?"
>>
>>If you're talking about the Passat 4Motion, then yes. If you're
>>referring to the Golf/Jetta/etc., then no.
>
>
> Why not? The '4Motion' system in the current Golf is exactly the same
> as the 'quattro' in the TT and A3 - that is, it's an electronically
> controlled Haldex clutch.

Feh. That ain't Quattro, no matter what the badge says.

--
Mike Smith

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

> > > > Is the 4Matic system on WV a rebadged quattro or it's some cheap
> > ineffective
> > > > addon
> > > > like that found on CRV, RAV4, etc?
> > >
> > > I thought 4matic was the Merc version like VW's 4motion? its a "on
demand"
> > > 4wd rather than the quattro's perm 4wd
> > >
> > Oh, sorry. What I meant was "Is 4Motion a rebadged quattro?"
>
> Depends on what you mean by "quattro." 4Motion is what VW calls it's
> AWD system on VW-badged autos. The Haldex-based system in the TT
> quattro is the same system in the VW R32 (called 4Motion by VW). The
> TORSEN system in the A4 quattro is the same system in the current
> Passat 4Motion.
>
> Now, let's have fun with syncro! j/k
>
> :)

Go on then. I will admit to embarrassing memories of being unable to get a
110 Landy (with its diff locked!) up a slippery, grassy hill that a syncro
golf on road tyres just wafted up, so it can't be that bad!

Not proper Quattro of course - - - - - -

Mike.

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"Mike Buckley" <mike@nochance.com> wrote in message
news:c1ohfs$70k$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> > > > > Is the 4Matic system on WV a rebadged quattro or it's some cheap
> > > ineffective
> > > > > addon
> > > > > like that found on CRV, RAV4, etc?
> > > >
> > > > I thought 4matic was the Merc version like VW's 4motion? its a "on
> demand"
> > > > 4wd rather than the quattro's perm 4wd
> > > >
> > > Oh, sorry. What I meant was "Is 4Motion a rebadged quattro?"
> >
> > Depends on what you mean by "quattro." 4Motion is what VW calls it's
> > AWD system on VW-badged autos. The Haldex-based system in the TT
> > quattro is the same system in the VW R32 (called 4Motion by VW). The
> > TORSEN system in the A4 quattro is the same system in the current
> > Passat 4Motion.
> >
> > Now, let's have fun with syncro! j/k
> >
> > :)
>
> Go on then. I will admit to embarrassing memories of being unable to get a
> 110 Landy (with its diff locked!) up a slippery, grassy hill that a syncro
> golf on road tyres just wafted up, so it can't be that bad!
>
> Not proper Quattro of course - - - - - -
>
I think a lot of people me included do not care a lot about off road
performance.
But what is Landy anyway?

Re: Is 4Matic a rebadged quattro?
 

"John Opezdol" <chungachanga@howdoesitsoundtoyou.au> wrote in message
news:103vpci8i9t65a@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Mike Buckley" <mike@nochance.com> wrote in message
> news:c1ohfs$70k$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
<SNIP>
> >
> > Go on then. I will admit to embarrassing memories of being unable to get
a
> > 110 Landy (with its diff locked!) up a slippery, grassy hill that a
syncro
> > golf on road tyres just wafted up, so it can't be that bad!
> >
> > Not proper Quattro of course - - - - - -
> >
> I think a lot of people me included do not care a lot about off road
> performance.
> But what is Landy anyway?
>
>

I assume a Landrover 4x4?
--
Doug Ramage