On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:01:44 +0100, Wolfgang Pawlinetz
<w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote:

>Dave, I respect you're experience and opinion, but I will have to
>refuse the implication that people not buying a Q for their own
>reasons are cheapskates or making false decisions.
>
>For the record: I don't doubt that the Q is better than the FWD, but
>the F is by any means still an extremely good car.

Wolfgang, I don't think people are cheapskates for buying the fwd
Audis, but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the
Quattro system. Audi didn't make their money on fwd cars. When they
came out with the Quattro here in the states (82, 84?) their sales
began to rise. There are scores of fwd cars out there, many of them
good, but there is only one Quattro along with numerous other awd
systems that are inferior. I would venture a guess that Quattro
accounts for 98% of sales in the U.S.

Audi dominated the rally scene in Europe and the States during in the
80s because of Quattro. Their entry into racing was also very
successful. I believe they dominated much of the Euro racing in those
days and each win caused them a weight penalty. The Sports Car Club
of America (SCCA) would not allow Quattros in any of their race
classes because of the distinct advantage over rwd and fwd. Audi and
their Quattro have dominated any number of race scenes, but especially
LeMans in recent years, and the Petite LeMans series here in the
States.

I have driven many fwd Audis at Audi sponsored driving events and they
do not compare to Quattro. They are good cars, no doubt about that,
but my choice for any car would be Quattro or rwd. If Audi was
suddenly to stop production of Quattro, my next choice would be the
Nisson GT-R or one of the MBs AMGs. It would not be an Audi fwd.
And, I agree with you that the Audi fwd is an extremely good car.

Be well,

Dave
RS6

 

"Dave LaCourse" <dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote in message
news:4q05j4pg7l2btf45i3pbdrjablu20s33s3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:01:44 +0100, Wolfgang Pawlinetz
> <w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote:
>
>>Dave, I respect you're experience and opinion, but I will have to
>>refuse the implication that people not buying a Q for their own
>>reasons are cheapskates or making false decisions.
>>
>>For the record: I don't doubt that the Q is better than the FWD, but
>>the F is by any means still an extremely good car.
>
> Wolfgang, I don't think people are cheapskates for buying the fwd
> Audis, but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the
> Quattro system. Audi didn't make their money on fwd cars. When they
> came out with the Quattro here in the states (82, 84?) their sales
> began to rise. There are scores of fwd cars out there, many of them
> good, but there is only one Quattro along with numerous other awd
> systems that are inferior. I would venture a guess that Quattro
> accounts for 98% of sales in the U.S.
>
> Audi dominated the rally scene in Europe and the States during in the
> 80s because of Quattro. Their entry into racing was also very
> successful. I believe they dominated much of the Euro racing in those
> days and each win caused them a weight penalty. The Sports Car Club
> of America (SCCA) would not allow Quattros in any of their race
> classes because of the distinct advantage over rwd and fwd. Audi and
> their Quattro have dominated any number of race scenes, but especially
> LeMans in recent years, and the Petite LeMans series here in the
> States.
>
> I have driven many fwd Audis at Audi sponsored driving events and they
> do not compare to Quattro. They are good cars, no doubt about that,
> but my choice for any car would be Quattro or rwd. If Audi was
> suddenly to stop production of Quattro, my next choice would be the
> Nisson GT-R or one of the MBs AMGs. It would not be an Audi fwd.
> And, I agree with you that the Audi fwd is an extremely good car.
>
> Be well,
>
> Dave
> RS6
>
>

There are at least two types of Quattro system.

The longitudinal engine in an A4 A5 A6 A8 S4 S6 (et cetera) has Torsen full
time 4wd, whereas the transverse engine in the A3 S3 TT (et cetera) has the
Haldex electronic controlled clutch system which is not full time 4wd, but
front wheel drive most of the time.

Best regards

David

 

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 07:36:36 -0500, Dave LaCourse
<dplacourse@pirateaol.com> wrote:

>Wolfgang, I don't think people are cheapskates for buying the fwd
>Audis, but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the
>Quattro system. Audi didn't make their money on fwd cars. When they
>came out with the Quattro here in the states (82, 84?) their sales
>began to rise. There are scores of fwd cars out there, many of them
>good, but there is only one Quattro along with numerous other awd
>systems that are inferior. I would venture a guess that Quattro
>accounts for 98% of sales in the U.S.

I begin to understand the different preception now.

I just checked Audis used car website in Austria and of all Audis
currently offered there (~3600 units) ~ 1200 are Quattros. All others
are obviously Fronts.

Audis had a fairly good reputation in europe already long before they
increased their sales in the US, so we have a different perception. In
the premium class over here basically only Mercedes, BMW and Audi
dominate. Lexus here has a very hard time to even be acknowledged as a
high class car (Lexus owners: no offense)

>[Racing and Competition]

I agree, but one could also see that as an excellent marketing plot
because, and let me play the devils advcate now, for the daily commute
on the motorway in california (BTDT) you don't need a Q.

I understand and agree that the reason for their big success in
competition conditions is the quattro. However, I assume you've made
the same experience, that is between racetrack and daily real world
driving complete universes exists.

>Be well,

You too, Dave

Regards

Wolfgang

 

On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:55:19 +0100, Wolfgang Pawlinetz
<w.pawlinetz@a1.net> wrote:

>I just checked Audis used car website in Austria and of all Audis
>currently offered there (~3600 units) ~ 1200 are Quattros. All others
>are obviously Fronts.

I can believe that. It is just the opposite here in the States. Most
Audis are awd, except for some of the TTs. I only wish that we had
some of the speed limits that you have, and the lane discipline most
Euro drivers practice. My wife and I were in Switzerland about ten
years ago and had rented a Saab Turbo in Zurich. Had a blast driving
to Davos and then to Germany. If only Stateside drivers had that
discipline.
>
>Audis had a fairly good reputation in europe already long before they
>increased their sales in the US, so we have a different perception. In
>the premium class over here basically only Mercedes, BMW and Audi
>dominate. Lexus here has a very hard time to even be acknowledged as a
>high class car (Lexus owners: no offense)

d;o) My wife has a Lexus SUV. Nice enough, but when I sponsored the
family to a winter driving school last year (two daughters and their
husbands (2000 4.2 A6), three grandchildren (two 2000 S4s and a
Passat), no one wanted to drive her car. We took turns, of course,
with each of the cars, but no one wanted to drive the Lexus. It was
fun throwing the Audis around the different courses, but the Lexus was
so forgiving with its anti-skid control, that it was hard to get it
into trouble. You can turn it off on the RS6, and the others didn't
have one. I had the Lexus in for service several months ago and took
that opportunity to test drive the Lexus IS F sedan. Ballsey little
all-wheel drive with 416 bhp, but it wasn't an Audi. A Lexus is NOT a
MB, but it does well in the States.

Be well,

Dave
RS6

 

> but I do feel that the entire reason for buying an Audi is the
> Quattro system

I would have loved a Quattro but as has been said, the price difference was
too much. It would have meant I'd have had to drop options (leather, HIDs)
that I wanted.

My main reasons for buying an Audi were superior quality over anything in
the same price segment, better residual value when I come to sell and IMO
better aesthetics.

Only around 25% of Audis sold in Europe are Quattro because pretty much all
Audis sold in Europe are built to order. I appreciate that that's hard to do
outside Europe which is why Audi USA probably takes in a far higher
percentage of Quattros as it's the USP for many people.

You've also got to remember that Audi only came up with Quattro in the early
80s but were pretty successful in Europe long before that so the "need" for
Quattro is not so strong here.

Dave

 

On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:53:07 -0000, "Dave" <a@b.c> wrote:

>Only around 25% of Audis sold in Europe are Quattro because pretty much all
>Audis sold in Europe are built to order. I appreciate that that's hard to do
>outside Europe which is why Audi USA probably takes in a far higher
>percentage of Quattros as it's the USP for many people.
>
>You've also got to remember that Audi only came up with Quattro in the early
>80s but were pretty successful in Europe long before that so the "need" for
>Quattro is not so strong here.

Interesting. I would have thought that most Audis are Quattro because
of their history here in the States. I remember the Audi Fox of many
years ago and I don't believe it sold well in the U.S. Audi sales
started to take off when they offered their first awd in '83 (82?). I
was invited to participate in an Audi "Hands On" demonstration in
Boston in '86 (or what it '88?). Anyway, they had their 200 and 400
models with ABS. You could turn the ABS off, and we did exercises
with and without. First impressions count, and I just had to have an
Audi with ABS. Sales of Audis increased after they came out with ABS,
and then the "sudden-unintended-acceleration) fiasco happened, and
sales suffered. Audi is now quite popular here in New England.
Expensive, but well built, bullet proof Quattro, and good performance.

I've owned my RS6 since new ('03), the longest I have ever owned a
car, and have no intention of getting rid of it. It has Bilsteins
coil-overs on all four corners, 19 " BBS LMs, lowered, chipped to 512
bhp, and goes like stink. It has given me flawless performance since
day one.

Dave
RS6

 

Something else to consider here in Europe is the high price of fuel. Having
a Quattro will dent your MPG.

I test drove an A4 2.0TDI 170 Quattro which had very good performance but
only gave 32MPG (UK)! You may as well buy a petrol car with that sort of
consumption. Although I have heard of the recent 3.0TDI Quattros returning
nearer 40.