DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
10-01-2010, 10:17 AM
#11
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
I have a 2009 a3 2.0T with the DSG. It is strange to use at first and I was a little unconvinced, but now I think it is pretty damn amazing. It will never compare to having a clutch int erms of total driver engagment since you don't have control over that one piece of mechanics, however, it shifts faster than any human can in pretty much any circumstance. Even the "slow" shifts are faster than you could shift with a traditional manual.
The thing is, you need to change the way you drive, and you don't need to shift in the 2000's, that would defeat the purpose of this performance transmission. Firstly, the DSG learns your behaviour and driving style. Its all about it 'prediciting' what your next gear will be and lining it up. If it thinks your going to shift from 3 to 4, it'll ine up 4th, if it thinks you'll shift to second, it'll line up second. When you confuse it,it shifts a bit 'slow', but even these shifts are under a second in my experience. As it learns your style, it can better predict your shifting points and timing, so if you like to shift a 4000, it will know that and expect it. When excellerating hard or drving technical windy roads the speed at which you can rattle off gears is astounding, and actually, you feel very much in control of the vehicle, even without the clutch.
The harshness when comng up to a stop light is also someting that takes some getting used to and adjusting for. i find its only on down shift to second, and when using manual mode (which is all I use), you can control your braking and adjust for this - again its about adjusting your driving style.
Most top tier race cars today don't use a clutch, and they seem to do just fine driving at the limit.
The thing is, you need to change the way you drive, and you don't need to shift in the 2000's, that would defeat the purpose of this performance transmission. Firstly, the DSG learns your behaviour and driving style. Its all about it 'prediciting' what your next gear will be and lining it up. If it thinks your going to shift from 3 to 4, it'll ine up 4th, if it thinks you'll shift to second, it'll line up second. When you confuse it,it shifts a bit 'slow', but even these shifts are under a second in my experience. As it learns your style, it can better predict your shifting points and timing, so if you like to shift a 4000, it will know that and expect it. When excellerating hard or drving technical windy roads the speed at which you can rattle off gears is astounding, and actually, you feel very much in control of the vehicle, even without the clutch.
The harshness when comng up to a stop light is also someting that takes some getting used to and adjusting for. i find its only on down shift to second, and when using manual mode (which is all I use), you can control your braking and adjust for this - again its about adjusting your driving style.
Most top tier race cars today don't use a clutch, and they seem to do just fine driving at the limit.
10-02-2010, 09:10 AM
#12
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
rman,
Do you continue to apply gas while shifting up in the manual mode or do you take your foot off of the accelerator?
I'm trying both and find the release of the accelerator to result in smoother gear transitions that seem more akin to the manual/clutch shifts I'm familiar with. However, the continuous application of gas while shifting manually with DSG does result in quicker acceleration, if not a bit rougher shifts.
Do you continue to apply gas while shifting up in the manual mode or do you take your foot off of the accelerator?
I'm trying both and find the release of the accelerator to result in smoother gear transitions that seem more akin to the manual/clutch shifts I'm familiar with. However, the continuous application of gas while shifting manually with DSG does result in quicker acceleration, if not a bit rougher shifts.
10-02-2010, 11:48 AM
#13
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
Your correct on both accounts. I have toyed with the release of the accelerator while shifting and it does give a smoother, more traditional, type shift. However, the continous accelerator gives lighting fast shifting and acceleration. Now I tend to just hit the accelerator 
- however this recently got me a few photoradar tickets 
- however this recently got me a few photoradar tickets
10-21-2010, 03:20 PM
#14
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
A month ago at the Singapore Grand Prix, Vettel pulled into the pits in his Formula One car. The car moved slowly when he left the pits. After some hesitation the car roared off. So what happened? Vettel thought he was in first gear and gave the appropriate amount of throttle. But he wasn't in first, he was in second. When he selected first gear he roared off as usual.
I believe a similiar thing is happening to drivers with the DSG. At 3 km/hrs the driver applies the appropriate amount of throttle, only to discover the car doesn't respond with easy accleration. Why? The car is in second gear. With the car in Drive the DSG driver expects the car to select the right gear, so he may think there is something wrong with the car when his expectations are not met.
When the car is at a complete stop (in Drive) the DSG will select first gear. Step on the gas and the car will respond with ease. But if you come to a rolling stop (as opposed to a complete stop) the DSG will select second gear. When you step on the gas the car is not responsive, just like Vettel during his pit stop.
If you want the car to be responsive (select first on a rolling stop) you need to fiddle with the DSG to get it into first.
I believe a similiar thing is happening to drivers with the DSG. At 3 km/hrs the driver applies the appropriate amount of throttle, only to discover the car doesn't respond with easy accleration. Why? The car is in second gear. With the car in Drive the DSG driver expects the car to select the right gear, so he may think there is something wrong with the car when his expectations are not met.
When the car is at a complete stop (in Drive) the DSG will select first gear. Step on the gas and the car will respond with ease. But if you come to a rolling stop (as opposed to a complete stop) the DSG will select second gear. When you step on the gas the car is not responsive, just like Vettel during his pit stop.
If you want the car to be responsive (select first on a rolling stop) you need to fiddle with the DSG to get it into first.
10-21-2010, 03:26 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
A month ago at the Singapore Grand Prix, Vettel pulled into the pits in his Formula One car. The car moved slowly when he left the pits. After some hesitation the car roared off. So what happened? Vettel thought he was in first gear and gave the appropriate amount of throttle. But he wasn't in first, he was in second. When he selected first gear he roared off as usual.
I believe a similiar thing is happening to drivers with the DSG. At 3 km/hrs the driver applies the appropriate amount of throttle, only to discover the car doesn't respond with easy accleration. Why? The car is in second gear. With the car in Drive the DSG driver expects the car to select the right gear, so he may think there is something wrong with the car when his expectations are not met.
When the car is at a complete stop (in Drive) the DSG will select first gear. Step on the gas and the car will respond with ease. But if you come to a rolling stop (as opposed to a complete stop) the DSG will select second gear. When you step on the gas the car is not responsive, just like Vettel during his pit stop.
If you want the car to be responsive (select first on a rolling stop) you need to fiddle with the DSG to get it into first.
I believe a similiar thing is happening to drivers with the DSG. At 3 km/hrs the driver applies the appropriate amount of throttle, only to discover the car doesn't respond with easy accleration. Why? The car is in second gear. With the car in Drive the DSG driver expects the car to select the right gear, so he may think there is something wrong with the car when his expectations are not met.
When the car is at a complete stop (in Drive) the DSG will select first gear. Step on the gas and the car will respond with ease. But if you come to a rolling stop (as opposed to a complete stop) the DSG will select second gear. When you step on the gas the car is not responsive, just like Vettel during his pit stop.
If you want the car to be responsive (select first on a rolling stop) you need to fiddle with the DSG to get it into first.
Last edited by Stephen111; 10-21-2010 at 04:10 PM. Reason: two copies
10-21-2010, 05:34 PM
#16
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
Seems to me that this is pretty good evidence that something is lacking if a Formula 1 driver has issues knowing what gear he's in. With a standard shift, at least there's physical indication of what gear you're in from the position of the shifter.
Sure, you can pretty much tell what gear you're in from engine load and sound (if you're not listening to music) but it would be nice to have some indication other than a digital readout.
By the way, I never had the car stay in 2nd after a stop. I'll now try to induce it but it always reverts to 1st if I don't shift there myself.
Related although not DSG: using Drive (automatic) sucks as the automatic gear selection is way too high. You end up with no power and then, to accelerate, you end up kicking down a gear and inducing turbo. The other option is to use Sport mode which hangs at too low a gear. I want my stick back.
Sure, you can pretty much tell what gear you're in from engine load and sound (if you're not listening to music) but it would be nice to have some indication other than a digital readout.
By the way, I never had the car stay in 2nd after a stop. I'll now try to induce it but it always reverts to 1st if I don't shift there myself.
Related although not DSG: using Drive (automatic) sucks as the automatic gear selection is way too high. You end up with no power and then, to accelerate, you end up kicking down a gear and inducing turbo. The other option is to use Sport mode which hangs at too low a gear. I want my stick back.
10-21-2010, 07:35 PM
#17
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
I have posted in this thread in page 1 and im starting to get the hang of my A3 a bit more, which is changing my driving style for best.. So If you have read my post on page one , dis-regard that.. This is going to be long.. Prepare to read... 
10-21-2010, 07:36 PM
#18
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Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
From what I have learned.. The DSG Transmission is very rewarding.. Thats if you know how to use it.. I'm no mechanic but when I'm driving, I shift to 2400 to 3000 RPMs, on a cold engine.. Once its warmed up, I'll gear up to 3000-4000 range.. You can even get power up to 5500 RPM range.. 6000 and up is where the engine barely helps, and Redlining is something I wouldn't recommend..When it comes to down shifting, I do find keeping the Rpms low, rewarding because it doesnt lounge the car forward as much as it would with a higher RPM.. You guys might find it funny, but I use a very thin sole, shoe that is perfect for driving.. Kinda like those race car drivers.. The more you get the feel of the pedal the better, because from there you can discover the car.. Since DSG is like a manual transmission, you do get the feel of a manual transmission without the clutch pedal.. With that said.. I have gotten my car to roll back, with a bit of play of the brake & gas pedal, just like a standard car.. Its been 6 months with my A3 and I never noticed that I had a heavy foot when I was driving my older automatic car.. So if you do have a heavy foot try to apply the gas lightly to get the car rolling, then give it and shift.. Always be sure to have the car in Gear 1 (M1) , when you are completely at a stop.. 2ndly- Leaving your car on Gear 2 (M2) is fine as long as your rolling with in range of that gear , say you have to brake, then brake within range and gear down.. Same thing applies for other gears.. I have down shifted to from 5th to 4th and braked, kept within 4th gear range, and when the road cleared up, up gear back to 5.. Heres near to good down shifting ranges, give this a try but be sure to brake a bit in between the ranges..If your in 6th gear (M6) going a 120kmh , downing shifting to 5th Gear (M5) at 90kmh, then at 80kmh from 5th (M5) down to 4th (M4), 4th gear (M4) at 50kmh to 3rd Gear (M3) , 3rd Gear (M3) at 30Kmh to 2nd Gear (M2) ur roughly at 30-20Kmh with the proper distance brake to complete stop at ur in Gear 1 (M1) if not gearing down to Gear 1 (M1) at 10kmh shouldnt make the car lounge.. Hope this helps..
10-22-2010, 07:11 PM
#19
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Posts: 12
Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
Oddy,
Your comments about the gear display are insightful. I agree.
You need to drive the car in Drive (automatic) for the DSG to select second during a rolling stop.
Greddy,
I tried driving with thin sole slippers. It worked, so I bought racing driver's shoes.
You might want to try the following:
With the car in gear, release the brake as fast as you can.
Move your foot over to the gas as fast as you can.
Rest your foot on the gas as quickly as possible.
Now, slowly squeeze the gas to get the car moving.
Let me know if it helps.
Your comments about the gear display are insightful. I agree.
You need to drive the car in Drive (automatic) for the DSG to select second during a rolling stop.
Greddy,
I tried driving with thin sole slippers. It worked, so I bought racing driver's shoes.
You might want to try the following:
With the car in gear, release the brake as fast as you can.
Move your foot over to the gas as fast as you can.
Rest your foot on the gas as quickly as possible.
Now, slowly squeeze the gas to get the car moving.
Let me know if it helps.
10-22-2010, 08:08 PM
#20
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Join Date: Apr 2010
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Posts: 124
Re: DSG - anyone else think it's not so awesome?
Stephen-- Sounds good..Eventually, u could switch shoes to thicker soles or even boots when u get the hang of the pedals.. Good point on the slowly squeezing the gas..
