timing belt recall??
09-08-2008, 05:35 AM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the car before you
Posts: 10
Re: timing belt recall??
this is a post i have found on the internet:
"
I periodically check the Audi TT blogs/forums regarding this timing belt issue. I have a 2000 Audi TT coupe that I purchased in 2003 with 32,000 miles on it. My timing belt broke in June 2006 on my drive from Los Angeles to Houston, TX at 83,000 miles. All of the car's maintenance since I purchased it used in 2003 was performed by the Audi Downtown Los Angeles dealership, even the 60K-mile maintenance where I instructed them to do EVERYTHING required plus anything they felt **should** be done. I even had a check-up at the dealership one month before I moved from Los Angeles to Houston (~82,000 miles).
In short, I was told the following by Audi USA and the Downtown L.A. dealership - after the fact:
1) All TT timing belts should be replaced every 3 years or 60K miles. The US Owners manual is misprinted and says 105K miles. The Australian owners manual says 100K km. It is a mis-print in the US Owners manual - they didn't convert from metric to US measurements, which would be about 66K miles.
2) The timing belt is composed of rubber - it degrades. Therefore, even if the car is low-mileage, after 3 years, the timing belt should be replaced because moisture, heat stress etc. cause wear and tear and it becomes brittle.
3) As stated above, the engine is an interference engine. It will be destroyed if the timing belt breaks - not a great design but I guess it keeps things fairly compact. So the risk by not changing one's timing belt is an engine that is unusable and costs approx $6500 to repair.
In my case, Audi U.S. paid 50% of the replacement cost for the new engine PARTS, and the repair work was done by the dealership in Houston (Momentum Audi). In my opinion, Audi should have paid all of the labor, and possibly 100% of the parts as well. I had the documentation that the L.A. dealership had done all of my maintenance since I purchased the car.
Now my 2000 TT has a new engine, new brakes, new tires and runs basically good as new - with the exception of a little electrical glitch with my turn signals (at 94,000 miles). I don't see a reason to replace it now...aside from the timing belt, it has been a great car.
After the timing belt was replaced, I asked the mechanic who did the work what the next probable failure would be based on his experience with TTs. He said the manual transmission is the best one Audi makes. So for those of you with tiptronics or automatics, just beware one Audi mechanic doesn't feel those are very reliable over the long term. I have a manual trans, so it provides me some comfort.
I heard rumors of a class action lawsuit back in '06 because of the timing belt. This is quite worthy, as this timing belt problem/owners manual misprint is so prevalent - and Audi only acknowledges it privately on a case-by-case basis.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust any of the timing belts since 2000-2002 without verification from Audi that a) they changed the composition of the rubber timing belt or b) changed the owners manual to correct the 105K mile replacement mis-representation.
I wish I had my point of contact with Audi USA still. I'd post his contact information all over the internet.
"
"
I periodically check the Audi TT blogs/forums regarding this timing belt issue. I have a 2000 Audi TT coupe that I purchased in 2003 with 32,000 miles on it. My timing belt broke in June 2006 on my drive from Los Angeles to Houston, TX at 83,000 miles. All of the car's maintenance since I purchased it used in 2003 was performed by the Audi Downtown Los Angeles dealership, even the 60K-mile maintenance where I instructed them to do EVERYTHING required plus anything they felt **should** be done. I even had a check-up at the dealership one month before I moved from Los Angeles to Houston (~82,000 miles).
In short, I was told the following by Audi USA and the Downtown L.A. dealership - after the fact:
1) All TT timing belts should be replaced every 3 years or 60K miles. The US Owners manual is misprinted and says 105K miles. The Australian owners manual says 100K km. It is a mis-print in the US Owners manual - they didn't convert from metric to US measurements, which would be about 66K miles.
2) The timing belt is composed of rubber - it degrades. Therefore, even if the car is low-mileage, after 3 years, the timing belt should be replaced because moisture, heat stress etc. cause wear and tear and it becomes brittle.
3) As stated above, the engine is an interference engine. It will be destroyed if the timing belt breaks - not a great design but I guess it keeps things fairly compact. So the risk by not changing one's timing belt is an engine that is unusable and costs approx $6500 to repair.
In my case, Audi U.S. paid 50% of the replacement cost for the new engine PARTS, and the repair work was done by the dealership in Houston (Momentum Audi). In my opinion, Audi should have paid all of the labor, and possibly 100% of the parts as well. I had the documentation that the L.A. dealership had done all of my maintenance since I purchased the car.
Now my 2000 TT has a new engine, new brakes, new tires and runs basically good as new - with the exception of a little electrical glitch with my turn signals (at 94,000 miles). I don't see a reason to replace it now...aside from the timing belt, it has been a great car.
After the timing belt was replaced, I asked the mechanic who did the work what the next probable failure would be based on his experience with TTs. He said the manual transmission is the best one Audi makes. So for those of you with tiptronics or automatics, just beware one Audi mechanic doesn't feel those are very reliable over the long term. I have a manual trans, so it provides me some comfort.
I heard rumors of a class action lawsuit back in '06 because of the timing belt. This is quite worthy, as this timing belt problem/owners manual misprint is so prevalent - and Audi only acknowledges it privately on a case-by-case basis.
Frankly, I wouldn't trust any of the timing belts since 2000-2002 without verification from Audi that a) they changed the composition of the rubber timing belt or b) changed the owners manual to correct the 105K mile replacement mis-representation.
I wish I had my point of contact with Audi USA still. I'd post his contact information all over the internet.
"
09-19-2008, 09:04 PM
#3
!! CONFIRM YOUR ACCOUNT !!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Lower Mainland
Posts: 15
Re: timing belt recall??
this whole timing belt recall has me wondering. took mine in for the 'free timing belt inspection' as per the notice and the dealer says my 03 TT with 30,000 kms. needs a new timing belt. i also heard the service guys telling another girl she needed a timing belt in her 02 TT. can't help but feel like this is just a cash grab... get it fixed and they get $1250. don't get it fixed (if something goes wrong) you just excluded yourself from the extended warranty....
Last edited by alyac; 09-19-2008 at 09:07 PM.
10-22-2008, 11:53 AM
#4
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19
Re: timing belt recall??
this whole timing belt recall has me wondering. took mine in for the 'free timing belt inspection' as per the notice and the dealer says my 03 TT with 30,000 kms. needs a new timing belt. i also heard the service guys telling another girl she needed a timing belt in her 02 TT. can't help but feel like this is just a cash grab... get it fixed and they get $1250. don't get it fixed (if something goes wrong) you just excluded yourself from the extended warranty....
02-03-2009, 02:43 PM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Re: timing belt recall??
My issues is resolved as of 05FEB2009. I'll keep the original posts (and updates) for other TT owners who might require it.
Note: Audi Markham Uptown confirmed that the new timing belt and water pump will last 5 years or 130,000km, rather than the incorrect 160,000km (and missing time info) as printed in the original 2001 Owner's Manual.
================================================== ==================
I just picked up a 2001 TTQC 180 and contacted several Audi dealers in the Greater Toronto Area (Audi Pfaff Vaughan, Audi Uptown Markham, Audi Againcourt Autohaus). They each gave me some info. I gave each of them my VIN to see if they can find out more info.
Audi Pfaff Vaughan
"We were able to put your VIN in the Audi Database and see that your previous owner did not come in for the free TB inspection as per the recall"
I asked them about whether this means Audi would pay for a new timing belt to be installed.
Status: Still waiting for response.
Update 05FEB2009: - Pfaff confirmed that only the inspection is free. If they deem the timing belt requires a service, it will cost $1,300
Audi Againcourt Autohous
"Please note that this is NOT a recall as the allegations are still open and pending. However, Audi has initiated a JZ Campagn out of good will to provide a free inspection of the TB. Originally the free inspection had to be done prior to September 28, 2008 but this has now been extended to July 2009 so there is plently of time for you to have the inspection done.
If the TB needs replacing then in conjunction with the free inspection we will provide a 1 hour labour discount to have the TB changed. I will send you paper copies of the Audi FAQ that was produced in response to this. You should also send in your ownership change card so Audi Canada can forward you all recall and TSB notices"
I asked them what the cost of the TB service would cost after that 1 hour labour charge savings. I also asked if the new timing belt would have a service life of 160,000km as printed in the original owner's manual or would it be more like 100,000km.
Status: Still waiting for response.
Audi Markham
"The timing belt change is only needed at 160,000km, as printed in owner's manual. Parts and Labour would be close to $1,000"
I think I might be wasting my time with these guys. The service manager seems unaware of the impending lawsuit or the timing belt problem with 1.8T engines from 2000-2003
Status: Will try again with a different Service Manager to give them a second change to give me a proper response.
Update 05FEB2009: A different Service Manager, Mark Wong, called to confirm that he was able to pull up previous service history records for my car that was done at authorized Audi Dealers. He confirmed that the timing belt and water pump was already changed at 92,000km in 2007.
My Feel on this Issue
I think this "free inspection" campaign is a fraudulent attempt to get Audi owners to do the Timing Belt service ahead of schedule (per printed owner's manual) and some do so by luring us to pay for this maintenance with discounts. This way, should Audi loses the lawsuit and is repsonsible for all repair costs associated with the timing belt failure, Audi wouldn't have to pay a cent to those owners who replaced their timing belts before the 160,000km mark.
I will go in for the free inspection anyway, and hopefully they will tell me that my timing belt wasn't part of that faulty batch that made it into my car. Or at least find out if the belt is already in its last days and need to be changed asap.
================================================== ==================
Note: Audi Markham Uptown confirmed that the new timing belt and water pump will last 5 years or 130,000km, rather than the incorrect 160,000km (and missing time info) as printed in the original 2001 Owner's Manual.
================================================== ==================
I just picked up a 2001 TTQC 180 and contacted several Audi dealers in the Greater Toronto Area (Audi Pfaff Vaughan, Audi Uptown Markham, Audi Againcourt Autohaus). They each gave me some info. I gave each of them my VIN to see if they can find out more info.
Audi Pfaff Vaughan
"We were able to put your VIN in the Audi Database and see that your previous owner did not come in for the free TB inspection as per the recall"
I asked them about whether this means Audi would pay for a new timing belt to be installed.
Status: Still waiting for response.
Update 05FEB2009: - Pfaff confirmed that only the inspection is free. If they deem the timing belt requires a service, it will cost $1,300
Audi Againcourt Autohous
"Please note that this is NOT a recall as the allegations are still open and pending. However, Audi has initiated a JZ Campagn out of good will to provide a free inspection of the TB. Originally the free inspection had to be done prior to September 28, 2008 but this has now been extended to July 2009 so there is plently of time for you to have the inspection done.
If the TB needs replacing then in conjunction with the free inspection we will provide a 1 hour labour discount to have the TB changed. I will send you paper copies of the Audi FAQ that was produced in response to this. You should also send in your ownership change card so Audi Canada can forward you all recall and TSB notices"
I asked them what the cost of the TB service would cost after that 1 hour labour charge savings. I also asked if the new timing belt would have a service life of 160,000km as printed in the original owner's manual or would it be more like 100,000km.
Status: Still waiting for response.
Audi Markham
"The timing belt change is only needed at 160,000km, as printed in owner's manual. Parts and Labour would be close to $1,000"
I think I might be wasting my time with these guys. The service manager seems unaware of the impending lawsuit or the timing belt problem with 1.8T engines from 2000-2003
Status: Will try again with a different Service Manager to give them a second change to give me a proper response.
Update 05FEB2009: A different Service Manager, Mark Wong, called to confirm that he was able to pull up previous service history records for my car that was done at authorized Audi Dealers. He confirmed that the timing belt and water pump was already changed at 92,000km in 2007.
My Feel on this Issue
I think this "free inspection" campaign is a fraudulent attempt to get Audi owners to do the Timing Belt service ahead of schedule (per printed owner's manual) and some do so by luring us to pay for this maintenance with discounts. This way, should Audi loses the lawsuit and is repsonsible for all repair costs associated with the timing belt failure, Audi wouldn't have to pay a cent to those owners who replaced their timing belts before the 160,000km mark.
I will go in for the free inspection anyway, and hopefully they will tell me that my timing belt wasn't part of that faulty batch that made it into my car. Or at least find out if the belt is already in its last days and need to be changed asap.
================================================== ==================
Last edited by Neova; 02-05-2009 at 09:03 AM.
02-03-2009, 03:50 PM
#6
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19
Re: timing belt recall??
I worked for vw/audi 8 years and currently work for a more prestigious company.
Drop me a line if you are interested.
02-03-2009, 10:37 PM
#7
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35
Re: timing belt recall??
If you are interested , I am a professional and can save you some money by doing this job for you on the side at the comfort of your own home. I have done a countless number of these including my own.
I worked for vw/audi 8 years and currently work for a more prestigious company.
Drop me a line if you are interested.
I worked for vw/audi 8 years and currently work for a more prestigious company.
Drop me a line if you are interested.
Update 05FEB2009: Guess I won't need the TB change for now. Thanks for the offer.
Last edited by Neova; 02-05-2009 at 09:05 AM.
04-03-2009, 01:47 PM
#8
Audi Forum - Posts like an A1
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 10
Re: timing belt recall??
When did this letter come out? I assume it was in August or September of 2008. I have not received a copy and my car has been in for service since then at least four times since then and as recently as this week. I think the timing belt just broke and I have 167xxxkm on the car. The dealer seemed very concerned that I did not have the inspection done... but I did not receive any letter. Does anyone know what they will do in this case. Are they going to cover it willingly or will I need to argue for them to cover it?
04-03-2009, 01:56 PM
#9
Audi Forum - Posts like an RS4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Barrie ontario
Posts: 871
Re: timing belt recall??
umm why didnt you have it fixed @ 155km as the old book told you too!! the new book tells you 105km i think....so the cost of a new motor is all on you!
