Monkeys

A4 Tdi (Sport) 2003 UK, pulling left.

From my original post "Hold the steering firmly straight and it's fine.
Release the wheel and the steering wheel settles ~5 degrees left. Anything
with the slightest camber makes this more pronounced. Tried it on a variety
of roads including motorways." When supplied O/S/F tyre also had more wear
than the N/S/F.

After waiting a couple of weeks for a slot, the car has been in and out of
service all day today and still pulls left. Today it's had "Carried out
full geometry check, adjusted rear toe and camber, adjusted front toe."

The guy (non-technical) who dropped it off said that it does pull left a
bit, but that's just road camber. Strange how my old Ford Focus didn't have
this problem.

What I've also noticed is what really makes the car go left - going over the
smallest bump. The steering wheel all but jumps left (about 5 degrees). On
a really smooth surface it will *sometimes* go straight and then start
wondering off to the left after a while, which I could understand as a
camber issue.

Any ideas folks? Is this normal on Audi's/A4's?

Hairy One Kenobi

"Monkeys" <monkeys@monkeysonthemoon.net> wrote in message
news:bvrbvt$hhc$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> A4 Tdi (Sport) 2003 UK, pulling left.
>
> From my original post "Hold the steering firmly straight and it's fine.
> Release the wheel and the steering wheel settles ~5 degrees left.
Anything
> with the slightest camber makes this more pronounced. Tried it on a
variety
> of roads including motorways." When supplied O/S/F tyre also had more
wear
> than the N/S/F.
>
> After waiting a couple of weeks for a slot, the car has been in and out of
> service all day today and still pulls left. Today it's had "Carried out
> full geometry check, adjusted rear toe and camber, adjusted front toe."
>
> The guy (non-technical) who dropped it off said that it does pull left a
> bit, but that's just road camber. Strange how my old Ford Focus didn't
have
> this problem.
>
> What I've also noticed is what really makes the car go left - going over
the
> smallest bump. The steering wheel all but jumps left (about 5 degrees).
On
> a really smooth surface it will *sometimes* go straight and then start
> wondering off to the left after a while, which I could understand as a
> camber issue.
>
> Any ideas folks? Is this normal on Audi's/A4's?

Not on mine..

Does the "adjustment" phrase mention which corners were altered?

The reason I ask is that a diagonal will have most effect, and that the
tyres could/would have worn to match the maladjustment..

HTH

H1K

Monkeys

> > Any ideas folks? Is this normal on Audi's/A4's?
>
> Not on mine..
>
> Does the "adjustment" phrase mention which corners were altered?
>
> The reason I ask is that a diagonal will have most effect, and that the
> tyres could/would have worn to match the maladjustment..
>

No it doesn't.

Perhaps I should swap the tyres left/right and front/rear?

Hairy One Kenobi

"Monkeys" <monkeys@monkeysonthemoon.net> wrote in message
news:bvt8c7$43i$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> > > Any ideas folks? Is this normal on Audi's/A4's?
> >
> > Not on mine..
> >
> > Does the "adjustment" phrase mention which corners were altered?
> >
> > The reason I ask is that a diagonal will have most effect, and that the
> > tyres could/would have worn to match the maladjustment..
> >
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> Perhaps I should swap the tyres left/right and front/rear?

Might be worth a try, *but* check first that they're not directional!

It should be easy to spot if one (or both) tyre "shoulder" is excessively
worn. Oh, and check the tyre pressures, as well (you've undoubtedly already
done this, but it's worth checking, what with the variable temperatures
we've had over here recently)

HTH

H1K

Steve Sears

Monkeys,
Sounds a bit like when I had the suspension rebuilt on my '87 5ktq - except
that the steering would wander excessively when adverse cambered sections of
road were encountered. I took the car to a local shop for a $$$ 4-wheel
alignment ("Adjustment threads seized"....bla bla bla). Shortly after
departing the shop, the car almost lept from the road at 60 km/h where the
camber veered to the shoulder. Reason - passenger side strut top nuts
loose. Needless to say - I went back and "tore them a new one" over that BS
(also partially the fault of the original shop that did the rebuild). I sat
there and watched while the mechanic did all corners over again.
It sounds like there's something loose there (maybe a failing ball joint?) -
or maybe bent - happens not only in accidents, but it can also be a result
of an over-zealous shipping employee if the car is tied down by the
suspension parts rather than the shipping lugs. I read a story once about a
european car dealer who couldn't figure out why some cars would come in to
the dealership from the boat with damaged suspension. They went to the
docks to see why - the cars arrived tied down with lengths of rope, the
shipping employee would cut the rope and drive through the ship to the ramp,
the trailing rope would occasionally catch between the cargo deck
plates.....Voila! Instant carrier landing demo. And damaged suspension
part.
The car should track straight ahead, steering wheel dead level, and not pull
left or right under acceleration or braking. If it pulls like you say,
something's not right - the "road camber" reason is a load of crap. As H1K
said, find out what adjustment was made ... and why was it off spec?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ - tracking dead straight now.
1980 Audi 5k - tracks dead straight....wheel is a bit crooked though (my
fault - replaced rack)
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - presently making new front
control arm bushings
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:0juUb.17845$JL4.144101@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> "Monkeys" <monkeys@monkeysonthemoon.net> wrote in message
> news:bvt8c7$43i$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > > > Any ideas folks? Is this normal on Audi's/A4's?
> > >
> > > Not on mine..
> > >
> > > Does the "adjustment" phrase mention which corners were altered?
> > >
> > > The reason I ask is that a diagonal will have most effect, and that
the
> > > tyres could/would have worn to match the maladjustment..
> > >
> >
> > No it doesn't.
> >
> > Perhaps I should swap the tyres left/right and front/rear?
>
> Might be worth a try, *but* check first that they're not directional!
>
> It should be easy to spot if one (or both) tyre "shoulder" is excessively
> worn. Oh, and check the tyre pressures, as well (you've undoubtedly
already
> done this, but it's worth checking, what with the variable temperatures
> we've had over here recently)
>
> HTH
>
> H1K
>
>

Monkeys

> The car should track straight ahead, steering wheel dead level, and not
pull
> left or right under acceleration or braking. If it pulls like you say,
> something's not right - the "road camber" reason is a load of crap. As
H1K
> said, find out what adjustment was made ... and why was it off spec?

Thanks for the advice, unfortunately I'm getting more and more hacked off at
the service received.

The dealer is starting to suggest that as the wheels are in alignment then
that there is no fault and this is just how Audi's are. They have also
tried to blame it being a sport model (no honestly), as it has wider wheels.
**** me, no wonder F1 is so difficult.

They now want me to demonstrate the problem before booking it in again - no
doubt it will be 'in tolerance' or some such bull. Even if not I will be
waiting at least another two weeks to get it back exactly the same.

So I'm intending to take one of them out in it, let go of the wheel and see
what they do when they see the hedge / wall / lampost /parked car coming up
at them. Handy it's pulling to the passenger side for this. Quite honestly
I'm so ****ed off that I'd consider sticking it in the hedge just to see the
look on their face.

Steve Sears

Monkeys,
Maybe you should find an Audi Service Facility that are closer to the
"Service" side of the tolerance instead of being near the "Dis-service" end.
If they said they adjusted the alignment, then something must have been
wrong. If they say that "Oh, well, we needed something to put on the bill
to make it look like we did something, when our tech just pulled the wheel
back in to alignment with a ratchet strap while the car was on the rack - we
actually did nothing" - then take your car from them and run to another
shop. The older A4's had a problem with the ball joints in the suspension
wearing out prematurely - adjusting the alignment without fixing what set it
out in the first place (ie - prematurely worn suspension
parts/accident/pothole damage/???) is just fixing the symptom without
addressing the real problem. Maybe Audi returned to the same suspension
parts supplier? The wear on the outside of the tires seems to indicate a
driver who loves fast corners - or a toe-in problem (instead of a ball joint
problem). As for the wider wheels comment - good thing we don't all own
Vipers (amazing how they stay on the road). There _is_ an adjustment for
the steering wheel, but it requires some work other than a "shrug".
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Monkeys" <monkeys@monkeysonthemoon.net> wrote in message
news:c00li8$a3c$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > The car should track straight ahead, steering wheel dead level, and not
> pull
> > left or right under acceleration or braking. If it pulls like you say,
> > something's not right - the "road camber" reason is a load of crap. As
> H1K
> > said, find out what adjustment was made ... and why was it off spec?
>
> Thanks for the advice, unfortunately I'm getting more and more hacked off
at
> the service received.
>
> The dealer is starting to suggest that as the wheels are in alignment then
> that there is no fault and this is just how Audi's are. They have also
> tried to blame it being a sport model (no honestly), as it has wider
wheels.
> **** me, no wonder F1 is so difficult.
>
> They now want me to demonstrate the problem before booking it in again -
no
> doubt it will be 'in tolerance' or some such bull. Even if not I will be
> waiting at least another two weeks to get it back exactly the same.
>
> So I'm intending to take one of them out in it, let go of the wheel and
see
> what they do when they see the hedge / wall / lampost /parked car coming
up
> at them. Handy it's pulling to the passenger side for this. Quite
honestly
> I'm so ****ed off that I'd consider sticking it in the hedge just to see
the
> look on their face.
>
>

Hairy One Kenobi

"Monkeys" <monkeys@monkeysonthemoon.net> wrote in message
news:c00li8$a3c$1@titan.btinternet.com...
> > The car should track straight ahead, steering wheel dead level, and not
> pull
> > left or right under acceleration or braking. If it pulls like you say,
> > something's not right - the "road camber" reason is a load of crap. As
> H1K
> > said, find out what adjustment was made ... and why was it off spec?
>
> Thanks for the advice, unfortunately I'm getting more and more hacked off
at
> the service received.
>
> The dealer is starting to suggest that as the wheels are in alignment then
> that there is no fault and this is just how Audi's are. They have also
> tried to blame it being a sport model (no honestly), as it has wider
wheels.
> **** me, no wonder F1 is so difficult.
>
> They now want me to demonstrate the problem before booking it in again -
no
> doubt it will be 'in tolerance' or some such bull. Even if not I will be
> waiting at least another two weeks to get it back exactly the same.

TBH, I have to agree with Steve - it might be worth looking at another
dealer or an independent to get a valid inspection (a sneaky way, that
relies on a chat with the inspector beforehand, is to pay for an MoT and
have the guy look specifically for signs of damage or unusual wear. He can
also comment with authority on the legality of the tyres, as fitted)

Not that you should *have* to do that, of course! It might even be worth
getting Audi UK involved.. particularly since one of their own dealers seems
to be implying a design fault.

The fault itself should be easy enough to demonstrate (simply take then out
on a quiet, straight road, release the wheel [fingers still wrapped around
it, of course], and then grab it back before you hit the kerb..)

I'm getting tramlining a bit myself at the moment (TTR), which I'm confident
will be solved by replacing the (very) worn tyres.. here's hoping that you
don't have to do the same! (At your own cost, that is..)

H1K

blue

if your car is pulling left then its probably the rear wheel alignment
it is possible to compensate for this by a four whell track set up whereby
the front wheels are adjusted so that thwe car crabs dwn the road in a
straight line my 85 100 cd auto does this and every time I cahnge the tyres
I have to have it tracked twicew because they check it for two wheel
alignment and change it telling me its wrongly adjusted and will not corner
properly then I take it to another garage who know how to do this properly
and it handles briliantly and drives straight again.