TT roadster design flaw
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
"Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bi0pnj$d2g$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> > Oh no, dont mention a French car to Mr Kemp. He's of the utterly
> ridcuolous
> > opinion that 205s do not handle very well. He has forgotten what real
> cars
> > are liked because he's been cocooned away in his safe 'family cars' for
> too
> > long
>
> They don't. I haven't.I've not.
>
Do. Have. Have
na na na na naaaaaaaaaa na :P
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
"Carl Gibbs" <cagmeister@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bi0rrb$432vr$1@ID-166528.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:bi0pnj$d2g$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> > > Oh no, dont mention a French car to Mr Kemp. He's of the utterly
> > ridcuolous
> > > opinion that 205s do not handle very well. He has forgotten what real
> > cars
> > > are liked because he's been cocooned away in his safe 'family cars'
for
> > too
> > > long
> >
> > They don't. I haven't.I've not.
> >
> Do. Have. Have
> na na na na naaaaaaaaaa na :P
don't, haven't, have not.
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
regardless what some of you may think about TT's, I've had my 225
Quatro coupe for 2 years & I love it. Granted, there are faster cars out
there, but no matter what you drive, there's always something
faster.I've owned many 2 seaters ( & yes i'm aware the coupe isn't a 2
seater so save your wise remarks). not all cars need to be fast to be
enjoyable & i enjoy mine.
Quatro coupe for 2 years & I love it. Granted, there are faster cars out
there, but no matter what you drive, there's always something
faster.I've owned many 2 seaters ( & yes i'm aware the coupe isn't a 2
seater so save your wise remarks). not all cars need to be fast to be
enjoyable & i enjoy mine.
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
"Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bi0iua$ahb$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net. ..
>
> > If you head back through the TT Forum archives, you'll see there was a
> > roaring trade in the older suspension - the feel is much, much better,
and
> > there's less understeer.
>
> And the average hairdresser that bought them couldn't cope. Like the
current
> MR2, at first release they all left the road backwards. And the S2000.
Note
> how the MGF has been set up to understeer. Understeer is what people
> understand.
Oh dear. Thought we were on an enthusiast's froup, here.
> > Personally, I leave the ESP turned off at all times - I had a bad
> experience
> > on a wet roundabout, where the box of tricks decided that I actually
> wanted
> > to go forwards. Hence that's the first button I push after starting the
> > engine (I ordered a Mk.I, but only the Mk.II was available on delivery)
>
> eh??? But the point of ESP is to ensure you are stable. If driving like a
> nut and you know what you're doing it needs to be off or you cannot
control
> the car how you want to. Mr average hairdresser needs to have the button
> removed...
Ah.
> > No idea what the spoiler does - I haven't seen wind tunnel results - be
> the
> > car is perfectly stable up to an indicated 155mph (147mph true,
according
> > to my GPS). That's significantly better than my last-model BMW, which
used
> > to get /very/ floatly between 120-130mph indicated (and probably a fair
> bit
> > lower in real life - 145 indicated was "about" 131mph true)
>
> My current Volvo is dead stable at an indicated 150 (not had enough road
to
> take it further yet), about 135-140 true. No-one would consider that a
> performance car and yet they make TTs with less power. Most comfort
oriented
> cars get floaty at high speed. The Mk1 TT appears to have suffered
somewhat
> from the body being shaped like an aerofoil.
Um.
If you're claiming that your Volvo doesn't experience a "float", then I
suggest that you retry and evaluate. At a higher speed.
> > Naturally, the spoiler doesn't even come into play on UK roads..
>
> of course...
>
> > > The TT was a poorly engineered car from the outset, not worthy of the
> > Audi
> > > badge, should have been sold as a seat product. In fact the Leon is
the
> > best
> > > small car in the VAG. How they screwed up when the rest of the audi
> range
> > is
> > > actually not bad I don't know.
> >
> > On what grounds? That you can't turn hard right in fog, on a wet
Autobahn
> at
> > 100mph+?
>
> The TT just feels crap to drive at speed. It's cramped, uncomfortable,
> noisy. All things you expect of a sports car, not a car that drives like a
> warm hatch.
Interesting.. you're specifically claiming that you've driven a TT? Which
type? There are only four combinations to try for, so it should be fairly
easy to remember. Ditto that warm hatch you're referring to...
> > You can't do that in a Pug 205, either (I would give a better example,
but
> > I'm not too familiar with well-handling hot hatches out there these
days -
> > which of 'em give you lift-off oversteer on demand? Any of 'em?)
>
> Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was as
> bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot
> hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
does
> (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
Leon
> to go sideways.
Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can get
while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is fine
when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on
modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)
> > The only real flaws that I've found in three years are the electrical
> > gremlins apparently common to all cars in the VAG stable. Oh, and the
OEM
> > ContiSport tyres - utter crap.
>
> Continental Sport Contact II are great though.
Beg to disagree. YMMV, given a different vehicle. S03's are a great
improvement when on the TR.
> > Very chuckable, and rarely embarrassed by my friend's 'Blade (well, when
> he
> > has a pillion and is not on a dead straight road ;o) Leaves him for dead
> at
> > the bends near Overton, Hamps (not sure where you are in the country)
> >
> > Can you say the same for your Vauxhall Zafira? ;o)
>
> Wouldn't try and take on a TT in the Zaf. Although I reckon the Zaf Turbo
is
> as quick as a 150 or a 180 TT point to point on average roads. My Volvo
will
> stick with a TT180 through most roads on a dry day. 225 out drags me, but
> then mines only 180bhp. Raced a T5 auto against a 225 manual and blew him
> away, as I did in an MGF Trophy. I just do not see why anyone wants a
> pseudo-sportscar design accident that drives as crap as it looks.
<Chortle>
Leaving aside that you're dealing with a TTR270 here, rather than a 180, I'd
seriously doubt that you'd get further than "The car in front's a Toyota.
Wish
it'd get out of the f**king way"
If you /could/ out-do an 225 wit a MGF then, well, he/she either deserved it
or you were in the way ;o)
H1K
P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25 in
traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving awareness
and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself "average"
;o)
P.P.S "Blew the doors off" was - I thought - a more emotive phrase. "Racing"
is for tracks or Santa Pod ;o)
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
> Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was as
> bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot
> hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
does
> (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
Leon
> to go sideways.
>
Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point You flaw your
entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch
available.
--
Dan
> bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot
> hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
does
> (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
Leon
> to go sideways.
>
Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point You flaw your
entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch
available.
--
Dan
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
--
__________________________________________________ __________
Disclaimer - any information contained herein may be fabricated, made up on
the spot or just plain wrong. I'm daft like that.
"Carl Gibbs" <cagmeister@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bi074n$3p9tf$1@ID-166528.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> news:mHL0b.15893$Kx1.249231@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > "Jamesy" <beats@rootmeanTHESPAMMINGsquared.co.CUNTSuk > wrote in
> message
> > news:bhvu5c$msm$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > "Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
> > > news:rqJ0b.15819$Kx1.247790@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> > > > "Jamesy" <beats@rootmeanTHESPAMMINGsquared.co.CUNTSuk > wrote in
> > > message
> > > > news:bhva7q$in2$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > > > > "Dan405" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> > > > > news:bhucdd$3e50o$1@ID-165560.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > > > > > > > Yes, about as phenomenal as your spelling. The TT is a piece
> of
> > > > > > overpriced
> > > > > > > > overstyled excuse for a cut down Golf. Audis worst car of
> recent
> > > > > times.
> > > > > > > > Should have been shot at the drawing board, with the
designer.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Brrappp<
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At least do your research first and get the correct
floorpan[1]
> > ;o)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Betcha even think that it's made in Germany..?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure where it was made, but was it designed in a hair
> salon?
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes. The one next-door to the wine bar.
> > > >
> > > > This from someone who drives a Volvo with big aftermarket wheels?
;o)
> > > >
> > >
> > > ...and an almost 300bhp engine.
> > >
> > > Yes.
> >
> > Ditto. In a car that doesn't come with a Tonka badge ;o)
>
> ...it just comes with a gay hairdresser image instead
>
Yup. And what's going to attract the most attention at high speeds - a
pseudo-sports-car or a Volvo estate? Q-car good. Hairdresser bad.
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
> Oh dear. Thought we were on an enthusiast's froup, here.
Enthusiasts of a manufacturer that makes no rear wheel drive cars...
> > The TT just feels crap to drive at speed. It's cramped, uncomfortable,
> > noisy. All things you expect of a sports car, not a car that drives like
a
> > warm hatch.
>
> Interesting.. you're specifically claiming that you've driven a TT? Which
> type? There are only four combinations to try for, so it should be fairly
> easy to remember. Ditto that warm hatch you're referring to...
Yep. TT225 Roadster, it belonged to a colleague, I bought a Rover 75 V6
manual at the same time. Had them for two years drove them both. Also drove
the TT225 coupe a few times. Drives very much like a Golf GTI Turbo (but
with more lag and more ultimate go) at legal speeds. Seat Leon Cupra is
better to drive, more fun and probably as fast point to point, not driven
the new one with the 225 engine.
> > Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was
as
> > bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most
hot
> > hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
> does
> > (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
> Leon
> > to go sideways.
>
> Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can
get
> while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is
fine
> when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on
> modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)
On-demand is not, as long as it's at the demand of the driver, not at the
whim of the chassis. RWD is luvverly, which is why the MGTF is more of a
sports car than the TT. And probably why I anhialated (sp?) the TT cross
country in an MGF.
> > > The only real flaws that I've found in three years are the electrical
> > > gremlins apparently common to all cars in the VAG stable. Oh, and the
> OEM
> > > ContiSport tyres - utter crap.
> >
> > Continental Sport Contact II are great though.
>
> Beg to disagree. YMMV, given a different vehicle. S03's are a great
> improvement when on the TR.
Found SCII to be great all rounder, low noise, high grip. Not tried S03 but
they are reported to be good.
> P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25 in
> traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving
awareness
> and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself "average"
> ;o)
I'm only average - but the MGF Trophy on the road was definitely faster than
the TT (we swapped cars and the MG was still quicker) - less weight, no AWD,
no electric hood, no aircon admittedly, but also 10 grand cheaper. Speed
into and out of corners was higher, shorter gearing made acceleration
roughly the same. TT felt bad under those conditions being pushed so hard.
The T5 just romped away on the straight bits, passed him on a long straight
bit but admittedly he'd catch on the corners.
Enthusiasts of a manufacturer that makes no rear wheel drive cars...
> > The TT just feels crap to drive at speed. It's cramped, uncomfortable,
> > noisy. All things you expect of a sports car, not a car that drives like
a
> > warm hatch.
>
> Interesting.. you're specifically claiming that you've driven a TT? Which
> type? There are only four combinations to try for, so it should be fairly
> easy to remember. Ditto that warm hatch you're referring to...
Yep. TT225 Roadster, it belonged to a colleague, I bought a Rover 75 V6
manual at the same time. Had them for two years drove them both. Also drove
the TT225 coupe a few times. Drives very much like a Golf GTI Turbo (but
with more lag and more ultimate go) at legal speeds. Seat Leon Cupra is
better to drive, more fun and probably as fast point to point, not driven
the new one with the 225 engine.
> > Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was
as
> > bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most
hot
> > hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
> does
> > (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
> Leon
> > to go sideways.
>
> Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can
get
> while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is
fine
> when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on
> modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)
On-demand is not, as long as it's at the demand of the driver, not at the
whim of the chassis. RWD is luvverly, which is why the MGTF is more of a
sports car than the TT. And probably why I anhialated (sp?) the TT cross
country in an MGF.
> > > The only real flaws that I've found in three years are the electrical
> > > gremlins apparently common to all cars in the VAG stable. Oh, and the
> OEM
> > > ContiSport tyres - utter crap.
> >
> > Continental Sport Contact II are great though.
>
> Beg to disagree. YMMV, given a different vehicle. S03's are a great
> improvement when on the TR.
Found SCII to be great all rounder, low noise, high grip. Not tried S03 but
they are reported to be good.
> P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25 in
> traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving
awareness
> and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself "average"
> ;o)
I'm only average - but the MGF Trophy on the road was definitely faster than
the TT (we swapped cars and the MG was still quicker) - less weight, no AWD,
no electric hood, no aircon admittedly, but also 10 grand cheaper. Speed
into and out of corners was higher, shorter gearing made acceleration
roughly the same. TT felt bad under those conditions being pushed so hard.
The T5 just romped away on the straight bits, passed him on a long straight
bit but admittedly he'd catch on the corners.
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
> Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point You flaw
your
> entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
> and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot
hatch
> available.
It was the most dangerous hot hatch available. And French.
your
> entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
> and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot
hatch
> available.
It was the most dangerous hot hatch available. And French.
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
"Tim S Kemp" <news@timkemp.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bi1tkp$pjd$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> > Oh dear. Thought we were on an enthusiast's froup, here.
>
> Enthusiasts of a manufacturer that makes no rear wheel drive cars...
Hmm. Have you spotted a trend since 1935 (IIRC), or are just trolling? ;o)
I moved from RWD to AWD (admittedly with a FWD Mini Scamp in the mix there
somewhere). Like RWD, prefer AWD in most day-to-day circumstances.
<snip>
> > > Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was
> as
> > > bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most
> hot
> > > hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
> > does
> > > (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake)
the
> > Leon
> > > to go sideways.
> >
> > Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can
> get
> > while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is
> fine
> > when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on
> > modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)
>
> On-demand is not, as long as it's at the demand of the driver, not at the
> whim of the chassis. RWD is luvverly, which is why the MGTF is more of a
> sports car than the TT. And probably why I anhialated (sp?) the TT cross
> country in an MGF.
That sounds more like a driver boast, TBH. I've frequently annihilated MGFs
in my old Westfield, and the TT leaves the Westie for dead.
Nothing to do with handling, I hasten to add - just sheer grunt. Both
smaller cars have the significant advantage of much less weight, but lose
out both on track-style late braking (prefer the "safely fast" mantra, but
let's be honest - the TT stops in a fraction of the distance or either car)
and in getting the power down past the apex.
As you said, the TT's a GT rather than a sports car, but it doesn't stop it
being quite rapid when competently driven. If you don't mind being brutal,
then the TT will have significantly higher entry and exit speeds. As I said,
I prefer the smooth approach..
<snip>
> > P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25
in
> > traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving
> awareness
> > and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself
"average"
> > ;o)
>
> I'm only average - but the MGF Trophy on the road was definitely faster
than
> the TT (we swapped cars and the MG was still quicker) - less weight, no
AWD,
> no electric hood, no aircon admittedly, but also 10 grand cheaper. Speed
> into and out of corners was higher, shorter gearing made acceleration
> roughly the same. TT felt bad under those conditions being pushed so hard.
> The T5 just romped away on the straight bits, passed him on a long
straight
> bit but admittedly he'd catch on the corners.
I find it very difficult to believe the bit about speed, unless the TT
driver was being *very* conservative. As goes the straights.. hmm.. what
gearchange points during acceleration?
http://tinyurl.com/kp89 for a standard engine (note how low they are!), and
http://tinyurl.com/kp8b for a chipped.
As goes cornering - despite the very high levels of grip, (in general) if
you aren't in a controlled drift then you can go faster.
Note that you can only do this with ESP turned off - if you leave it
switched on, then it'll have something to say about things, and will
activate brakes and cut power as it sees fit. You /did/ have it turned off,
didn't you..?
As goes bang-for-buck then, yes, of /course/ there are more cost-effective
cars. Starting with that Mini 850. How fast would an MGF have to go to beat
a £150 Mini on a tight-and-twisty? ;o)
On a more serious note, a four grand Westfield would leave it for dead at
anything up to about 75mph (where the brick-outhouse aerodynamics come into
play). And that's also ten grand cheaper ;o)
H1K
news:bi1tkp$pjd$1@newsreaderm1.core.theplanet.net. ..
> > Oh dear. Thought we were on an enthusiast's froup, here.
>
> Enthusiasts of a manufacturer that makes no rear wheel drive cars...
Hmm. Have you spotted a trend since 1935 (IIRC), or are just trolling? ;o)
I moved from RWD to AWD (admittedly with a FWD Mini Scamp in the mix there
somewhere). Like RWD, prefer AWD in most day-to-day circumstances.
<snip>
> > > Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was
> as
> > > bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most
> hot
> > > hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
> > does
> > > (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake)
the
> > Leon
> > > to go sideways.
> >
> > Oh dear. To us old farts, RWD is luvverly, and the control that you can
> get
> > while transiting a bend is desirable. Learning to conserve momentum is
> fine
> > when you're dealing with a 1950s vehicle, but not quite as necessary on
> > modern cars. Please explain why on-demand oversteer is A Bad Thing (tm)
>
> On-demand is not, as long as it's at the demand of the driver, not at the
> whim of the chassis. RWD is luvverly, which is why the MGTF is more of a
> sports car than the TT. And probably why I anhialated (sp?) the TT cross
> country in an MGF.
That sounds more like a driver boast, TBH. I've frequently annihilated MGFs
in my old Westfield, and the TT leaves the Westie for dead.
Nothing to do with handling, I hasten to add - just sheer grunt. Both
smaller cars have the significant advantage of much less weight, but lose
out both on track-style late braking (prefer the "safely fast" mantra, but
let's be honest - the TT stops in a fraction of the distance or either car)
and in getting the power down past the apex.
As you said, the TT's a GT rather than a sports car, but it doesn't stop it
being quite rapid when competently driven. If you don't mind being brutal,
then the TT will have significantly higher entry and exit speeds. As I said,
I prefer the smooth approach..
<snip>
> > P.S. How do you define "blew away"? 1.2 Nova Traffic Light Wars or M25
in
> > traffic? Or.. dare I say it..? A decent road that requires driving
> awareness
> > and skill? Should beat me hands-down, as I only consider myself
"average"
> > ;o)
>
> I'm only average - but the MGF Trophy on the road was definitely faster
than
> the TT (we swapped cars and the MG was still quicker) - less weight, no
AWD,
> no electric hood, no aircon admittedly, but also 10 grand cheaper. Speed
> into and out of corners was higher, shorter gearing made acceleration
> roughly the same. TT felt bad under those conditions being pushed so hard.
> The T5 just romped away on the straight bits, passed him on a long
straight
> bit but admittedly he'd catch on the corners.
I find it very difficult to believe the bit about speed, unless the TT
driver was being *very* conservative. As goes the straights.. hmm.. what
gearchange points during acceleration?
http://tinyurl.com/kp89 for a standard engine (note how low they are!), and
http://tinyurl.com/kp8b for a chipped.
As goes cornering - despite the very high levels of grip, (in general) if
you aren't in a controlled drift then you can go faster.
Note that you can only do this with ESP turned off - if you leave it
switched on, then it'll have something to say about things, and will
activate brakes and cut power as it sees fit. You /did/ have it turned off,
didn't you..?
As goes bang-for-buck then, yes, of /course/ there are more cost-effective
cars. Starting with that Mini 850. How fast would an MGF have to go to beat
a £150 Mini on a tight-and-twisty? ;o)
On a more serious note, a four grand Westfield would leave it for dead at
anything up to about 75mph (where the brick-outhouse aerodynamics come into
play). And that's also ten grand cheaper ;o)
H1K
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: TT roadster design flaw
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:06:21 +0100, "Dan405" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was as
>> bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot
>> hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
>does
>> (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
>Leon
>> to go sideways.
>>
>
>Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point You flaw your
>entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
>and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch
>available.
Hmmm...I was kind of in the "the TT looks like a hairdresser's car"
camp too. Then Tim started saying things like "understeer is
desireable" and "who wants lift-off oversteer?". Then I went back and
found out he drove a Vulva...er...I mean Volvo, and things became a
bit clearer. It is quite a shame when the family car emasculates a
fella.
<Please, for the love of Pete, read this post as misguided humor.>
Elroy
2000 S4
>> Since when has lift-off oversteer been a desirable thing?? The 205 was as
>> bad a design as the TT and probably killed more people. Currently most hot
>> hatches just tuck back in when you lift mid bend, which is what the TT
>does
>> (now) so that's why I say why bother! You can provoke (trail brake) the
>Leon
>> to go sideways.
>>
>
>Now you see mate, i was with you up until the above point You flaw your
>entire argument by disagreeing with ever other car enthusiast in the world
>and claiming that, for its time, the 205 wasn't the best handling hot hatch
>available.
Hmmm...I was kind of in the "the TT looks like a hairdresser's car"
camp too. Then Tim started saying things like "understeer is
desireable" and "who wants lift-off oversteer?". Then I went back and
found out he drove a Vulva...er...I mean Volvo, and things became a
bit clearer. It is quite a shame when the family car emasculates a
fella.
<Please, for the love of Pete, read this post as misguided humor.>
Elroy
2000 S4