Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
#11
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Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
> "A_Newsreader" <a_newsreader@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:af273187.0401230126.2cffc26b@posting.google.c om...
>> I'm looking at my next car, ideally if it exists I'd like a luxury
>> saloon, 4x4 IN DIESEL !!
>>
>> But, it's hard choosing because basically there is no new car out
>> there that takes my fancy - basically I think they are all a rip off.
>
> Then you won't be buying anything.
>
> However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling it "AWD"
> (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4". They're slightly different terms of
> art. Further, if you're able to consider a smaller car, I'd take a look at
> the Jaguar X-Type. There are no diesels or FWD models sold here in the US,
> but I understand they are there. Whether the AWD/diesel combination exists,
> I do not know. However, we have been delighted with our 3.0 AWD 5-speed
> Sport.
AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in
Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive" and
"four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
four wheels.
>> 2) Audi - heard lots of reliability issues (but do like their designs)
>
> The reliability issues rarely strand you anywhere. They're inconveniences,
> not dangers. They're fairly well-known and documented in newsgroups and
> forums like this one. In spite of all of them, you'll find the overwhelming
> majority of Audi owners like, and trust, their cars.
>
>> 3) Mercedes - question is am I really
>> buying a Mercedes or am I buying a Chrysler with a mercedes badge and
>> pricetag.
>
> Absolutely not. These marques are about as closely related as Chevrolet and
> Saab in the GM family; which is to say, essentially not at all.
Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
Crossfire is already made in Germany. Also, the differences between
the new Saab 9-3, the new Chevy Malibu, and the new Opel/Vauxhall
Vectra are smaller than ever.
--
Ignasi.
'90 325is
> "A_Newsreader" <a_newsreader@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:af273187.0401230126.2cffc26b@posting.google.c om...
>> I'm looking at my next car, ideally if it exists I'd like a luxury
>> saloon, 4x4 IN DIESEL !!
>>
>> But, it's hard choosing because basically there is no new car out
>> there that takes my fancy - basically I think they are all a rip off.
>
> Then you won't be buying anything.
>
> However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling it "AWD"
> (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4". They're slightly different terms of
> art. Further, if you're able to consider a smaller car, I'd take a look at
> the Jaguar X-Type. There are no diesels or FWD models sold here in the US,
> but I understand they are there. Whether the AWD/diesel combination exists,
> I do not know. However, we have been delighted with our 3.0 AWD 5-speed
> Sport.
AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in
Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive" and
"four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
four wheels.
>> 2) Audi - heard lots of reliability issues (but do like their designs)
>
> The reliability issues rarely strand you anywhere. They're inconveniences,
> not dangers. They're fairly well-known and documented in newsgroups and
> forums like this one. In spite of all of them, you'll find the overwhelming
> majority of Audi owners like, and trust, their cars.
>
>> 3) Mercedes - question is am I really
>> buying a Mercedes or am I buying a Chrysler with a mercedes badge and
>> pricetag.
>
> Absolutely not. These marques are about as closely related as Chevrolet and
> Saab in the GM family; which is to say, essentially not at all.
Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
Crossfire is already made in Germany. Also, the differences between
the new Saab 9-3, the new Chevy Malibu, and the new Opel/Vauxhall
Vectra are smaller than ever.
--
Ignasi.
'90 325is
#12
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"A_Newsreader" <a_newsreader@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:af273187.0401260018.1a618b28@posting.google.c om...
> Thanks Floyd, there appears to be more and more people answering
like
> this in newsgroups rather than actually reading the question.
>
> Anyways, I do agree with that poster on one point - it will be a
> secondhand purchase after several, 3-4 years (to knock off a lot of
> depreciation).
>
> Best regards.
>
I do not regard either the Quattro's, Allroad, X5, X3, Volvo or even
the Touareg as SUV's. They are rather big saloon cars which have
varying driving heights. The difference between a so called SUV and a
saloon is becoming ever more blurred. In my fleet I avoid the term SUV
and prefer to differentiate by whether the vehicle is more performance
biased or more heavy duty biased. The same customer may view the BMW
X5 and the Range Rover, Quattro, Allroad and Volvo XC70 and 90, which
all lack a chassis, along with the Mercedes M, which has a chassis,
when making a buying decision.
The Audi 4.0 diesel is an excellent choice of its type because as a
front wheel drive vehicle the torque generated by the engine is
probably just too much to make it a pleasant drive. The same is true
of the Touareg V10 5.0 which just has to have four wheel drive to
work. It is also a very nice alternative to the A8 Quattro. You should
try it in tandem with an A8. I have and know which I would prefer to
drive.
My friend has an Audi A6 Allroad diesel and has just done over 80,000
miles in 18 months. He is very pleased with it. In essence this is
just a slightly higher and better equipped A6 Quattro. He loves it,
except for a fairly flat bottom end performance from the engine. He
will probably not have another one, just because 100,000 miles in such
a short time is enough in one model of vehicle. It gets boring.
Huw
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#13
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"Ignasi Palou-Rivera" <ipalourivera@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
> > "A_Newsreader" <a_newsreader@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:af273187.0401230126.2cffc26b@posting.google.c om...
> >> I'm looking at my next car, ideally if it exists I'd like a
luxury
> >> saloon, 4x4 IN DIESEL !!
> >>
> >> But, it's hard choosing because basically there is no new car out
> >> there that takes my fancy - basically I think they are all a rip
off.
> >
> > Then you won't be buying anything.
> >
> > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling
it "AWD"
> > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4". They're slightly different
terms of
> > art. Further, if you're able to consider a smaller car, I'd take
a look at
> > the Jaguar X-Type. There are no diesels or FWD models sold here
in the US,
> > but I understand they are there. Whether the AWD/diesel
combination exists,
> > I do not know. However, we have been delighted with our 3.0 AWD
5-speed
> > Sport.
Hmm. I am not sure whether the diesel is a 4x4 or not. Up until you
mentioned it, I was fairly confident that the only front drive version
was the entry level 2.0 petrol. Have had a look in Car magazine with
no luck.
>
> AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in
> Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive"
and
> "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> four wheels.
Absolutely. 'SUV' is not widely used here. A BMW X5 is hardly an
utility vehicle. It is just a [slightly] higher standing 5 Series with
quite small load area. It has four wheels, all of which are driven. It
is considered as a potential purchase by the same people who consider
all varieties of Audi, Mercedes, Range Rover, Volvo, Subaru and even
by some as the 7 series BMW and other vehicles that are not even all
wheel drive. In fact I changed a Jaguar XK8 sports coupe for the LAnd
Cruiser and have never regretted it.
Maybe the absolute classification of vehicles, which makes at least
one poster here rather hot under the collar, is a particularly
childish American phenomenon? Certainly most European potential Audi
A8 4x4 buyers would consider the Audi Allroad, VW Touareg and Range
Rover but probably not a Jaguar X Type due to its very compact
passenger compartment.
Huw
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#14
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"Ignasi Palou-Rivera" <ipalourivera@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling it
"AWD"
> > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4".
>
> AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in
> Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive" and
> "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> four wheels.
Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
*locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given instant. If
any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's AWD.
Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions, depending
on the drivetrain setting.
> > Absolutely not. These marques are about as closely related as Chevrolet
and
> > Saab in the GM family; which is to say, essentially not at all.
>
> Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
> Crossfire is already made in Germany.
*Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling it
"AWD"
> > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4".
>
> AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully in
> Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel drive" and
> "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> four wheels.
Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
*locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given instant. If
any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's AWD.
Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions, depending
on the drivetrain setting.
> > Absolutely not. These marques are about as closely related as Chevrolet
and
> > Saab in the GM family; which is to say, essentially not at all.
>
> Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
> Crossfire is already made in Germany.
*Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40158748$0$40214$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> "Ignasi Palou-Rivera" <ipalourivera@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
> >
> > > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling
it
> "AWD"
> > > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4".
> >
> > AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully
in
> > Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel
drive" and
> > "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> > four wheels.
>
> Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
> *locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given
instant. If
> any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's
AWD.
> Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions,
depending
> on the drivetrain setting.
Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD
while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO,
especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be
rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.
Huw
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#16
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Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:40158991$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40158748$0$40214$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> > "Ignasi Palou-Rivera" <ipalourivera@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> > > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling
> it
> > "AWD"
> > > > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4".
> > >
> > > AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully
> in
> > > Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel
> drive" and
> > > "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> > > four wheels.
> >
> > Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
> > *locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given
> instant. If
> > any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's
> AWD.
> > Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions,
> depending
> > on the drivetrain setting.
>
> Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD
> while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO,
> especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be
> rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.
Just to muddy the waters ;o)
Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver) can modify
the behaviour of. An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as defined by the
manufacturer.
Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs..
H1K
news:40158991$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40158748$0$40214$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> > "Ignasi Palou-Rivera" <ipalourivera@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:ur7xmk3ww.fsf@yahoo.com...
> > > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> writes:
> > >
> > > > However, should you change your mind, you might consider calling
> it
> > "AWD"
> > > > (All-Wheel Drive) instead of "4x4".
> > >
> > > AFAIK, this different nomenclature is not followed that carefully
> in
> > > Europe as it's in the US. At it makes sense to me. "All wheel
> drive" and
> > > "four wheel drive" should mean the same as long as the vehicle has
> > > four wheels.
> >
> > Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
> > *locked*, then it's 4WD because all 4 are driven at any given
> instant. If
> > any diffs are open and one wheel *may* slip as a result, then it's
> AWD.
> > Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions,
> depending
> > on the drivetrain setting.
>
> Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD
> while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO,
> especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be
> rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.
Just to muddy the waters ;o)
Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver) can modify
the behaviour of. An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as defined by the
manufacturer.
Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs..
H1K
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote >
> Just to muddy the waters ;o)
>
> Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver)
can modify
> the behaviour of. An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as
defined by the
> manufacturer.
>
> Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs..
>
> H1K
>
>
" How it works" is of only academic interest. As long as it does work,
then I am happy. All the vehicles which have drive to all four wheels
have worked in the environment for which they were designed. The x5
and Volvo are only suitable for places where the standard saloons can
go.
The only system I find fairly useless is 'hill descent control' on the
station wagon that is the X5. It is also fairly useless in the
Mercedes M because it cannot be switched off in that application and
can be the cause of slides.
In my experience, almost all owners of Volvo, Audi, VW and BMW 4x4's
only consider them to be big saloon cars, which is after all what they
are, albeit with drive to four wheels as a bonus. Would they sell
without the fashionable 4x4 tag? Yes. After all, most Audi and BMW 5
series sold are not fitted with 4x4 and those that are, seldom leave
metalled roads or see more than a light sprinkling of snow or some
ice, which is all they are capable of.
Huw
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#18
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Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
C.R. Krieger wrote:
> "Ignasi Palou-Rivera"
>>Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
>>Crossfire is already made in Germany.
> *Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
> could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
> OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
There is however the Dodge Sprinter which
is a Mercedes Sprinter without the
Tri-star and a less attractive grill.
Otherwise it is identical from what
I can see on the Dodge web site. They
even kept the name.
I like it.
--
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Oh yea.
To reach the greek_philosophizer
( who has spent the last seven years being
poisoned and harassed by the gang that follows you
around and whistles - mostly while living in
COLLEGE PARK, MARYLAND, USA)
you may call this number which is in Alexandria,
VIRGINia ,
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ( also known as the LAND
OF THE FREE ):
cell : ( 571 ) 224 - 6315
> "Ignasi Palou-Rivera"
>>Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
>>Crossfire is already made in Germany.
> *Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
> could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
> OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
There is however the Dodge Sprinter which
is a Mercedes Sprinter without the
Tri-star and a less attractive grill.
Otherwise it is identical from what
I can see on the Dodge web site. They
even kept the name.
I like it.
--
SECRET HIDDEN MESSAGE BELOW
PLEASE STOP READING HERE
DO NOT READ ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE
OH STOP! PLEASE DO NOT GO ANY LOWER!
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OH STOP! PLEASE DO NOT GO ANY LOWER!
OH STOP! PLEASE DO NOT GO ANY LOWER!
OH STOP! PLEASE DO NOT GO ANY LOWER!
Oh yea.
To reach the greek_philosophizer
( who has spent the last seven years being
poisoned and harassed by the gang that follows you
around and whistles - mostly while living in
COLLEGE PARK, MARYLAND, USA)
you may call this number which is in Alexandria,
VIRGINia ,
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ( also known as the LAND
OF THE FREE ):
cell : ( 571 ) 224 - 6315
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
greek_philosophizer <greek_philosophizer@hotmail.com> writes:
> C.R. Krieger wrote:
>> "Ignasi Palou-Rivera"
>
>>>Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
>>>Crossfire is already made in Germany.
>
>> *Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
>> could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
>> OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
>
> There is however the Dodge Sprinter which
> is a Mercedes Sprinter without the
> Tri-star and a less attractive grill.
> Otherwise it is identical from what
> I can see on the Dodge web site. They
> even kept the name.
That's really funny. It's like a taller Vito, isn't it? But I guess
C.R. still technically(*) right, since the Sprinter is a van. And
also, he was looking at Chryslers badged as MB's and not the opposite
as the Sprinter is.
(*) After all he's a lawyer!
--
Ignasi.
'90 325is
> C.R. Krieger wrote:
>> "Ignasi Palou-Rivera"
>
>>>Mostly true, but things are getting murkier. The new Chrysler
>>>Crossfire is already made in Germany.
>
>> *Getting*, but not there yet. There are currently *no* Benz models that
>> could be considered 'Chryslers' with a tri-star badge. In response to the
>> OP, who's shopping *now*, my response is accurate.
>
> There is however the Dodge Sprinter which
> is a Mercedes Sprinter without the
> Tri-star and a less attractive grill.
> Otherwise it is identical from what
> I can see on the Dodge web site. They
> even kept the name.
That's really funny. It's like a taller Vito, isn't it? But I guess
C.R. still technically(*) right, since the Sprinter is a van. And
also, he was looking at Chryslers badged as MB's and not the opposite
as the Sprinter is.
(*) After all he's a lawyer!
--
Ignasi.
'90 325is
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Is it really a Mercedes or more a Chyrsler ??
"Hairy One Kenobi" <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:BvhRb.11446$JL4.94502@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:40158991$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> >
> > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:40158748$0$40214$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> > >
> > > Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
> > > *locked*, then it's 4WD
> > > Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions,
> > > depending on the drivetrain setting.
> >
> > Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD
> > while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO,
> > especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be
> > rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.
>
> Just to muddy the waters ;o)
>
> Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver) can
modify
> the behaviour of.
That then would bring in all the *older* Audis that were *normally* AWD but
had two differentials (center & rear) that could be manually locked to
produce a kind of '3WD' (one front wheel always left to slip).
> An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as defined by the manufacturer.
>
> Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs.
Leaving my old dinosaur of a Ford F350 as the only *true* 4WD, eh? But yes,
you're right. At least in my opinion. It always grates on me to see "4X4"
slapped on an AWD sedan or coupe ...
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; drove that)
news:BvhRb.11446$JL4.94502@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> "Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:40158991$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> >
> > "C.R. Krieger" <warp2_shadowMAPS@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:40158748$0$40214$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net. ..
> > >
> > > Well, my own definition is, if all the differentials are (or can be)
> > > *locked*, then it's 4WD
> > > Notice that *some* vehicles (most Jeeps) can fit both definitions,
> > > depending on the drivetrain setting.
> >
> > Then all Land Rovers are AWD while old Land Cruiser 80's were 4WD
> > while recent 100 Series are AWD. Not a very helpful definition IMO,
> > especially as all the 4wd vehicles by your deffinition will also be
> > rear, front or AWD when the diffs are open.
>
> Just to muddy the waters ;o)
>
> Personally I'd consider a 4WD as something that I (as the driver) can
modify
> the behaviour of.
That then would bring in all the *older* Audis that were *normally* AWD but
had two differentials (center & rear) that could be manually locked to
produce a kind of '3WD' (one front wheel always left to slip).
> An AWD is what it says on the tin - AWD, as defined by the manufacturer.
>
> Of course, by this definition, many modern 4WDs might become AWDs.
Leaving my old dinosaur of a Ford F350 as the only *true* 4WD, eh? But yes,
you're right. At least in my opinion. It always grates on me to see "4X4"
slapped on an AWD sedan or coupe ...
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; drove that)