Steve Sears

Pat,
Your theories may be valid, but IME with broken wires in the driver's door,
even a wire between the window switches and the window motor will not catch
the insulation on fire if holding on by a single strand. Sure, there will
be arcing and all sorts of funny errant current in the car's electrical
systems when there are broken wires - as shown in many Type 44's when a
license plate bulb burns out and the dash lights don't come on, or type 43's
where corrosion in the turn signal housing causes the dash lights to flash -
but I dare say that I have yet to hear about a single car burning up because
of broken wires in the trunk lid or door jambs. The Bose speaker fires were
something different - involving the failure of components of the amplifier
which was mounted the rear speakers. See:
http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/radio.html
You can also see the response of Audi (of America)...or, rather, non
response. They dragged their heels on the issue while companies like Nissan
recalled their Bose equipped cars. Look at the pictures - now that's a
fire!!!....but it doesn't have anything to do with work-hardened wires.
My suggestion is that if you have a good light bulb in the car that won't
come on, or an electrical feature that doesn't get power - it's time to dig
out the multimeter and a set of good crimping tools and check the hinge
areas of all doors and the trunk lid. Use the Bentley Manual wiring
diagrams to help you trace things. Remember that if it's something like a
sunroof motor that's away from the doors, it may still be powered through
the driver's door jamb.
If you spent $$$+ buying an Audi wiring harness......well......the money's
spent - don't expect Audi to comp you a harness or two.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"patty" <UseLinkToEmail@> wrote in message
news:1_646236_5b0bfe3442075dac315bfeb5d1200980@aut oforumz.com...
> "" wrote:
> > The message <O8NJe.4391$6d4.488459@news20.bellglobal.com>
> > from "Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESsoil-mat.on.ca> contains
> > these words:
> >
> > > Fire risk? How much current are those small wires carrying?
> >
> > Shouldn't matter. The fuses are there to protect the circuit
> > from
> > melting under overload so there's little fire risk unless it's
> > a really
> > high current device. Few cars have the starter motor in the
> > boot lid...
> >
> > --
> > Skipweasel.
> > Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."
>
> 5 amp Wire, 18 strands supplying a 21W load, each strand therefore
> carries 0.28A. 21W bulb requires current 21/12 = 1.75A. Therefore
> using simple logic a minimum 7 strands to carry the load without
> causing heating beyond the wires design capability. As each strand
> snaps the remaining wires will be heated more, until potentially that
> wire melts and snaps or worse still remain intact producing excessive
> heat therefore heating the insulation.
> The circuit is protected by a 15A fuse. This will only blow if it sees
> a load of 180W which is most unlikely as the bulb in the circuit will
> limits any fault current or the live side of circuit is makes contact
> with earth. The only way this wire would do that is if the earth wire
> has also snapped, although in the case of the left hand this had
> happend is is less likely as is is a higher guage wire. I hasten to
> add no fuses blew. The only way to gurantee excessive heating could
> not have occured is if a single stand of the wire designed to carry
> 0.28A can carry 1.75A.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Pat
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www. interface, at author's request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL:
http://www./Audi-rear-...ict132692.html
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
http://www./eform.php?p=646236

Steve Sears

Pat,
Your theories may be valid, but IME with broken wires in the driver's door,
even a wire between the window switches and the window motor will not catch
the insulation on fire if holding on by a single strand. Sure, there will
be arcing and all sorts of funny errant current in the car's electrical
systems when there are broken wires - as shown in many Type 44's when a
license plate bulb burns out and the dash lights don't come on, or type 43's
where corrosion in the turn signal housing causes the dash lights to flash -
but I dare say that I have yet to hear about a single car burning up because
of broken wires in the trunk lid or door jambs. The Bose speaker fires were
something different - involving the failure of components of the amplifier
which was mounted the rear speakers. See:
http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/radio.html
You can also see the response of Audi (of America)...or, rather, non
response. They dragged their heels on the issue while companies like Nissan
recalled their Bose equipped cars. Look at the pictures - now that's a
fire!!!....but it doesn't have anything to do with work-hardened wires.
My suggestion is that if you have a good light bulb in the car that won't
come on, or an electrical feature that doesn't get power - it's time to dig
out the multimeter and a set of good crimping tools and check the hinge
areas of all doors and the trunk lid. Use the Bentley Manual wiring
diagrams to help you trace things. Remember that if it's something like a
sunroof motor that's away from the doors, it may still be powered through
the driver's door jamb.
If you spent $$$+ buying an Audi wiring harness......well......the money's
spent - don't expect Audi to comp you a harness or two.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"patty" <UseLinkToEmail@> wrote in message
news:1_646236_5b0bfe3442075dac315bfeb5d1200980@aut oforumz.com...
> "" wrote:
> > The message <O8NJe.4391$6d4.488459@news20.bellglobal.com>
> > from "Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESsoil-mat.on.ca> contains
> > these words:
> >
> > > Fire risk? How much current are those small wires carrying?
> >
> > Shouldn't matter. The fuses are there to protect the circuit
> > from
> > melting under overload so there's little fire risk unless it's
> > a really
> > high current device. Few cars have the starter motor in the
> > boot lid...
> >
> > --
> > Skipweasel.
> > Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."
>
> 5 amp Wire, 18 strands supplying a 21W load, each strand therefore
> carries 0.28A. 21W bulb requires current 21/12 = 1.75A. Therefore
> using simple logic a minimum 7 strands to carry the load without
> causing heating beyond the wires design capability. As each strand
> snaps the remaining wires will be heated more, until potentially that
> wire melts and snaps or worse still remain intact producing excessive
> heat therefore heating the insulation.
> The circuit is protected by a 15A fuse. This will only blow if it sees
> a load of 180W which is most unlikely as the bulb in the circuit will
> limits any fault current or the live side of circuit is makes contact
> with earth. The only way this wire would do that is if the earth wire
> has also snapped, although in the case of the left hand this had
> happend is is less likely as is is a higher guage wire. I hasten to
> add no fuses blew. The only way to gurantee excessive heating could
> not have occured is if a single stand of the wire designed to carry
> 0.28A can carry 1.75A.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Pat
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www. interface, at author's request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL:
http://www./Audi-rear-...ict132692.html
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
http://www./eform.php?p=646236

Steve Sears

Pat,
Your theories may be valid, but IME with broken wires in the driver's door,
even a wire between the window switches and the window motor will not catch
the insulation on fire if holding on by a single strand. Sure, there will
be arcing and all sorts of funny errant current in the car's electrical
systems when there are broken wires - as shown in many Type 44's when a
license plate bulb burns out and the dash lights don't come on, or type 43's
where corrosion in the turn signal housing causes the dash lights to flash -
but I dare say that I have yet to hear about a single car burning up because
of broken wires in the trunk lid or door jambs. The Bose speaker fires were
something different - involving the failure of components of the amplifier
which was mounted the rear speakers. See:
http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/radio.html
You can also see the response of Audi (of America)...or, rather, non
response. They dragged their heels on the issue while companies like Nissan
recalled their Bose equipped cars. Look at the pictures - now that's a
fire!!!....but it doesn't have anything to do with work-hardened wires.
My suggestion is that if you have a good light bulb in the car that won't
come on, or an electrical feature that doesn't get power - it's time to dig
out the multimeter and a set of good crimping tools and check the hinge
areas of all doors and the trunk lid. Use the Bentley Manual wiring
diagrams to help you trace things. Remember that if it's something like a
sunroof motor that's away from the doors, it may still be powered through
the driver's door jamb.
If you spent $$$+ buying an Audi wiring harness......well......the money's
spent - don't expect Audi to comp you a harness or two.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"patty" <UseLinkToEmail@> wrote in message
news:1_646236_5b0bfe3442075dac315bfeb5d1200980@aut oforumz.com...
> "" wrote:
> > The message <O8NJe.4391$6d4.488459@news20.bellglobal.com>
> > from "Steve Sears" <steve.sears@SHOESsoil-mat.on.ca> contains
> > these words:
> >
> > > Fire risk? How much current are those small wires carrying?
> >
> > Shouldn't matter. The fuses are there to protect the circuit
> > from
> > melting under overload so there's little fire risk unless it's
> > a really
> > high current device. Few cars have the starter motor in the
> > boot lid...
> >
> > --
> > Skipweasel.
> > Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."
>
> 5 amp Wire, 18 strands supplying a 21W load, each strand therefore
> carries 0.28A. 21W bulb requires current 21/12 = 1.75A. Therefore
> using simple logic a minimum 7 strands to carry the load without
> causing heating beyond the wires design capability. As each strand
> snaps the remaining wires will be heated more, until potentially that
> wire melts and snaps or worse still remain intact producing excessive
> heat therefore heating the insulation.
> The circuit is protected by a 15A fuse. This will only blow if it sees
> a load of 180W which is most unlikely as the bulb in the circuit will
> limits any fault current or the live side of circuit is makes contact
> with earth. The only way this wire would do that is if the earth wire
> has also snapped, although in the case of the left hand this had
> happend is is less likely as is is a higher guage wire. I hasten to
> add no fuses blew. The only way to gurantee excessive heating could
> not have occured is if a single stand of the wire designed to carry
> 0.28A can carry 1.75A.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Pat
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www. interface, at author's request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL:
http://www./Audi-rear-...ict132692.html
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
http://www./eform.php?p=646236