Roland Franzius

Hal Whelply wrote:
> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

Cupholders problems probably came with Ford as new owner of Volvo.
Converting shareholders problems to cupholders problems. Here in Germany
a company (which?) was sued: Driving fast on bad roads coffee entered
the AC system. Judges think auto makers should be aware of the fact that
coffee is placed on the cupholder near to air hoses when bad road is
coming up ahead.

--

Roland Franzius

Guy King

The message <rXfIe.73987$ro.14903@fed1read02>
from "Hal Whelply" <whelply@***.net> contains these words:

> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

"All I could think of was that I was up there in a spaceship built by
the lowest bidder." - Neil Armstrong.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King

The message <rXfIe.73987$ro.14903@fed1read02>
from "Hal Whelply" <whelply@***.net> contains these words:

> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

"All I could think of was that I was up there in a spaceship built by
the lowest bidder." - Neil Armstrong.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

Guy King

The message <rXfIe.73987$ro.14903@fed1read02>
from "Hal Whelply" <whelply@***.net> contains these words:

> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!

"All I could think of was that I was up there in a spaceship built by
the lowest bidder." - Neil Armstrong.

--
Skipweasel.
Ivor Cutler - "Never knowingly understood."

gcmschemist@gmail.com

Hal Whelply wrote:
> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!
>

Cupholders are not necessary items. If they are flimsy, plastic and
crappy, I don't care at all. If the cylinder head is flimsy, plastic
and crappy, then you've got a Lada.

Cupholders are a sop to the American market, and more to the American
motoring press.

They gripe when they don't have a place to put their 2-liter bottles of
Pepsi for the long drive. Frankly, I've never understood why cars need
cupholders. None of the cars I drove growing up had them, and I never
felt the need. My current Audis don't mave much in the way of
cupholders, and I still don't miss them. I'm not going to die of
thirst if I don't drink something for a couple of hours anyway.

If they have any effect on the durability of the drivetrain,
reliability of the accessories, or functionality of the car as a
transportation device, I don't see it.

E.P.

gcmschemist@gmail.com

Hal Whelply wrote:
> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!
>

Cupholders are not necessary items. If they are flimsy, plastic and
crappy, I don't care at all. If the cylinder head is flimsy, plastic
and crappy, then you've got a Lada.

Cupholders are a sop to the American market, and more to the American
motoring press.

They gripe when they don't have a place to put their 2-liter bottles of
Pepsi for the long drive. Frankly, I've never understood why cars need
cupholders. None of the cars I drove growing up had them, and I never
felt the need. My current Audis don't mave much in the way of
cupholders, and I still don't miss them. I'm not going to die of
thirst if I don't drink something for a couple of hours anyway.

If they have any effect on the durability of the drivetrain,
reliability of the accessories, or functionality of the car as a
transportation device, I don't see it.

E.P.

gcmschemist@gmail.com

Hal Whelply wrote:
> Ah, but if they can't get the cupholders right, how can you have any
> confidence in the complicated bits and pieces?!
>

Cupholders are not necessary items. If they are flimsy, plastic and
crappy, I don't care at all. If the cylinder head is flimsy, plastic
and crappy, then you've got a Lada.

Cupholders are a sop to the American market, and more to the American
motoring press.

They gripe when they don't have a place to put their 2-liter bottles of
Pepsi for the long drive. Frankly, I've never understood why cars need
cupholders. None of the cars I drove growing up had them, and I never
felt the need. My current Audis don't mave much in the way of
cupholders, and I still don't miss them. I'm not going to die of
thirst if I don't drink something for a couple of hours anyway.

If they have any effect on the durability of the drivetrain,
reliability of the accessories, or functionality of the car as a
transportation device, I don't see it.

E.P.

gcmschemist@gmail.com

CaptainW116 wrote:
> Although I am a fan of 70s' and 80s' European automobiles,I can
> not help notice this trend all across the board!Rust on new Mercedes
> and BMW,plastic on the exteriors of Volvo,and so on

It's a global market, and all the makers must compete with the Hyundais
and Kias, even if they aren't targeting the same market. The object is
"most car for the money spent." Even with Porsche and MB. If you're
looking for a performance convertible, why buy a Boxter if you can get
an S2000? And absolutely why buy a Z3 or Z4? Maybe an M Roadster, but
still, you're buying the badge. So, BMW, MB, VAG, and the others have
to compete somehow. And still have to return profit to shareholders.
So, costs get cut. And to do that, carmakers will do what needs to be
done. Sometimes they will get overzealous and cut costs stupidly -
like the plastic clips VAG used in some of the electric window
applications - the clips would break, and the windows would fall into
the doors. Surely they only saved a few pennies by not using metal.
But a few pennies, times four, times the number of cars produced -
that's some manager's salary. But the pressure is still to push costs
down, such that Audi can compete with Lexus, or Infiniti, or Acura.

Having said all that, I do think that some Euro carmakers have retained
their essential character, even in this era. Porsche, BMW and Audi are
still essentially true to their roots. I'd like to see Audi return to
the bullet-proof drivetrains of the past, over-engineered and
under-powered, rather than where they've gone lately. But they have a
ways to go before they end up like Mitsubishi, with their on-the-edge
of design power:displacement.

E.P.

gcmschemist@gmail.com

CaptainW116 wrote:
> Although I am a fan of 70s' and 80s' European automobiles,I can
> not help notice this trend all across the board!Rust on new Mercedes
> and BMW,plastic on the exteriors of Volvo,and so on

It's a global market, and all the makers must compete with the Hyundais
and Kias, even if they aren't targeting the same market. The object is
"most car for the money spent." Even with Porsche and MB. If you're
looking for a performance convertible, why buy a Boxter if you can get
an S2000? And absolutely why buy a Z3 or Z4? Maybe an M Roadster, but
still, you're buying the badge. So, BMW, MB, VAG, and the others have
to compete somehow. And still have to return profit to shareholders.
So, costs get cut. And to do that, carmakers will do what needs to be
done. Sometimes they will get overzealous and cut costs stupidly -
like the plastic clips VAG used in some of the electric window
applications - the clips would break, and the windows would fall into
the doors. Surely they only saved a few pennies by not using metal.
But a few pennies, times four, times the number of cars produced -
that's some manager's salary. But the pressure is still to push costs
down, such that Audi can compete with Lexus, or Infiniti, or Acura.

Having said all that, I do think that some Euro carmakers have retained
their essential character, even in this era. Porsche, BMW and Audi are
still essentially true to their roots. I'd like to see Audi return to
the bullet-proof drivetrains of the past, over-engineered and
under-powered, rather than where they've gone lately. But they have a
ways to go before they end up like Mitsubishi, with their on-the-edge
of design power:displacement.

E.P.

gcmschemist@gmail.com

CaptainW116 wrote:
> Although I am a fan of 70s' and 80s' European automobiles,I can
> not help notice this trend all across the board!Rust on new Mercedes
> and BMW,plastic on the exteriors of Volvo,and so on

It's a global market, and all the makers must compete with the Hyundais
and Kias, even if they aren't targeting the same market. The object is
"most car for the money spent." Even with Porsche and MB. If you're
looking for a performance convertible, why buy a Boxter if you can get
an S2000? And absolutely why buy a Z3 or Z4? Maybe an M Roadster, but
still, you're buying the badge. So, BMW, MB, VAG, and the others have
to compete somehow. And still have to return profit to shareholders.
So, costs get cut. And to do that, carmakers will do what needs to be
done. Sometimes they will get overzealous and cut costs stupidly -
like the plastic clips VAG used in some of the electric window
applications - the clips would break, and the windows would fall into
the doors. Surely they only saved a few pennies by not using metal.
But a few pennies, times four, times the number of cars produced -
that's some manager's salary. But the pressure is still to push costs
down, such that Audi can compete with Lexus, or Infiniti, or Acura.

Having said all that, I do think that some Euro carmakers have retained
their essential character, even in this era. Porsche, BMW and Audi are
still essentially true to their roots. I'd like to see Audi return to
the bullet-proof drivetrains of the past, over-engineered and
under-powered, rather than where they've gone lately. But they have a
ways to go before they end up like Mitsubishi, with their on-the-edge
of design power:displacement.

E.P.