An M3 owner talks about his S4
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Jul 7, 6:46 am, "John Carrier" <j...@comcast.net> wrote:
> So to summarize, you like the Audi better because it has a nicer radio,
> cruise control on a stalk vice a steering wheel button, a full-size spare,
> and more durable armrests and interior trim.
>
> R / John
Not at all. I never did say that I like the Audi better. I said I
love the Audi. I also loved my E36 and my E46. (for that matter, if
you must know, I loved my Accord when I had it, too, but for FAR
different reasons.) I love certain things about the Audi better than
the BMW's and I like certain things about the BMW's better than the
Audi. But, under normal conditions the cars are essentially
equivalent, just with pricepoint- and temporally-appropriate features.
In reality, the little things I like or dislike about these vehicle
are myriad, and those I mentioned were only the things that rolled off
the top of my head when I wrote.
I could mention that I really like the thought that went into adding a
slot for documentation under the steering column, freeing the glovebox
for a reasonable amount of cd's sunglasses, and the like. I could also
mention that I like the BMW's floor-hinged accelerator better than the
top-hinged design of the Audi. I could mention that I like the smooth
engagement of the Audi clutch, but I think that may come at the cost
of durability.
Since it's such a big talking point here in a.a.a, I thought it was
probably not necessary to point out at further length that I think
quattro is a great feature. Not sure that it makes all the difference
in the world, but I feel like it will make the difference when it
counts. (In the inevitable torrential rain here.)
And, I did neglect to mention that the four-door situation is nicer
when I want to get people in and out of the vehicle with the Audi, but
that's rendered almost moot by the incredible lack or rear seat
legroom.
I probably should have also pointed out that I am surprisingly
dissatisfied with the mileage in the Audi. I know, I know... I read
the MPG ratings before I bought. Oh, I knew going in that the mileage
was going to be about 20% worse than the BMW was, but I guess I was
not prepared for the real-life impact. And, I managed to acquire the
vehicle seemingly within hours of record gas prices. On a gulf-coast
jaunt of about 600 miles round trip last week, I managed only about
19.8 mpg on the highway at around 80mph average. This is going to get
expensive.
The fact of the matter is that I liked the Audi enough to buy it, and
to trade the M3. In essence, the Audi is better suited to my
situation. The two big reasons are 1) that I think the Audi is by and
large a better built vehicle (of which the trim and armrest business
were examples) , and its ride is more compliant than the BMW, which is
important in my area... If I lived in a city with real road
maintenance, instead of a city where the speed limit is really more of
a dare, I might find the difference in ride less important.
I'm sure that I have more on this, but I think that's all for today.
Mark
Mark J. Cecil -- Senior UNIX Engineer and Part-time Curmudgeon
New Orleans, Louisiana
http://notrealswift.blogspot.com
"La Nouvelle-Orleans... Maintenant et pour toujours"
> So to summarize, you like the Audi better because it has a nicer radio,
> cruise control on a stalk vice a steering wheel button, a full-size spare,
> and more durable armrests and interior trim.
>
> R / John
Not at all. I never did say that I like the Audi better. I said I
love the Audi. I also loved my E36 and my E46. (for that matter, if
you must know, I loved my Accord when I had it, too, but for FAR
different reasons.) I love certain things about the Audi better than
the BMW's and I like certain things about the BMW's better than the
Audi. But, under normal conditions the cars are essentially
equivalent, just with pricepoint- and temporally-appropriate features.
In reality, the little things I like or dislike about these vehicle
are myriad, and those I mentioned were only the things that rolled off
the top of my head when I wrote.
I could mention that I really like the thought that went into adding a
slot for documentation under the steering column, freeing the glovebox
for a reasonable amount of cd's sunglasses, and the like. I could also
mention that I like the BMW's floor-hinged accelerator better than the
top-hinged design of the Audi. I could mention that I like the smooth
engagement of the Audi clutch, but I think that may come at the cost
of durability.
Since it's such a big talking point here in a.a.a, I thought it was
probably not necessary to point out at further length that I think
quattro is a great feature. Not sure that it makes all the difference
in the world, but I feel like it will make the difference when it
counts. (In the inevitable torrential rain here.)
And, I did neglect to mention that the four-door situation is nicer
when I want to get people in and out of the vehicle with the Audi, but
that's rendered almost moot by the incredible lack or rear seat
legroom.
I probably should have also pointed out that I am surprisingly
dissatisfied with the mileage in the Audi. I know, I know... I read
the MPG ratings before I bought. Oh, I knew going in that the mileage
was going to be about 20% worse than the BMW was, but I guess I was
not prepared for the real-life impact. And, I managed to acquire the
vehicle seemingly within hours of record gas prices. On a gulf-coast
jaunt of about 600 miles round trip last week, I managed only about
19.8 mpg on the highway at around 80mph average. This is going to get
expensive.
The fact of the matter is that I liked the Audi enough to buy it, and
to trade the M3. In essence, the Audi is better suited to my
situation. The two big reasons are 1) that I think the Audi is by and
large a better built vehicle (of which the trim and armrest business
were examples) , and its ride is more compliant than the BMW, which is
important in my area... If I lived in a city with real road
maintenance, instead of a city where the speed limit is really more of
a dare, I might find the difference in ride less important.
I'm sure that I have more on this, but I think that's all for today.
Mark
Mark J. Cecil -- Senior UNIX Engineer and Part-time Curmudgeon
New Orleans, Louisiana
http://notrealswift.blogspot.com
"La Nouvelle-Orleans... Maintenant et pour toujours"
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
daytripper wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
daytripper wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
daytripper wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
daytripper wrote:
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>about making the change.
>>
>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
the impression is an issue for both brands.
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Jul 8, 12:39 pm, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Jul 8, 12:39 pm, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Jul 8, 12:39 pm, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Jul 8, 12:39 pm, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
> daytripper wrote:
> >On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <d...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> >>mjce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
> >>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
> >>>about making the change.
>
> >>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
> >>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>
> >You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
> the impression is an issue for both brands.
Well, to be honest, the only electrical problem I've had in any of
these cars is a failed resistor pack for the climate control in the
E36 M3, which was a known problem (imho, this means it should always
be taken care of by BMW, which it wasn't). It was a relatively simple
fix, and the part was relatively cheap. Only issue was it died in...
anyone? Right... July in New Orleans. which means the swap was a
sweaty, sweaty affair.
On second thought, that's not entirely true... The passenger mirror
on the E46 lost the pitch (up-down) axis movement around 40000 miles,
which was very annoying. I attribute this to the feature where
putting the car in reverse causes the mirror to look down. I think
the mirror motors are actually only specified for very minimal duty
cycle since most folks only rarely adjust their mirrors, but this many-
times-a-day operation is far in excess of that spec. Needless to say,
the motor for the mirror cannot be had without the rest of the
assembly, which requires paint. Overall, had I actually fixed it, the
repair would have cost around 500. About 260-275 for the part, about
100 for the paint, and about 100 for labor. I probably would have
opted to install it myself, so maybe 400 is closer to reality. Either
way, it should have never died. The "look-at-the-curb" feature of
these cars' mirrors should be factored in when choosing a motor
assembly in the design phase.
>From a mechanical standpoint, the engines in the M3's were super-
reliable. I really had zero direct engine problems with them. The
problems I had were non-engine related and relatively minor. Just
they were more than I expected.
The sole MAJOR issue I had was the driver's rear shock tower tearing
out in the E36. Twice. This was also a known problem, and many many
E36 owners got pretty pissed at BMW for underspec'ing the rear tower
structure, then not owning up to the fix when the failure happened.
The only real upside to this failure was that it did not present a
life-threatening handling change at normal speeds. And, the fix was
on the order of $300, because there was no finish paint work required.
Do you all know if the Audis have any similar recurring issues that I
should look out for or can prevent?
mjc
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: An M3 owner talks about his S4
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:39:28 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>daytripper wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>>about making the change.
>>>
>>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>>
>>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
>I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
>the impression is an issue for both brands.
I have both of these cars. They are a bit old (-00) so minor errors
are not any suprices. Both are very hard driven compared to average of
this kinds of cars due to speed, average 100 mph or more, not much on
autobahn in Germany but this is on small and winding roads with a lot
of the milage on gravel surface roads.
Both my BMW and AUDI have needed some replacement parts but nothing
unusual compared to how I use the cars.
But my AUDI needs new front pads twice a year and once a year new
front discs and bearings. I have tested several brands of pads but
harder pads seems only to reduce lifetime of the disc. For the BMW do
I mount new pads every year and have newer replaced the discs or
bearings. Shock absobers have I destroyed severals on both cars but it
is mainly due to bad roads.
Regarding electrical problem, here is my view:
A typical electrical fault in AUDI causes engine in limp mode, you
need vag-com to get 5 errors, all hard to understand, and every error
costs 100$ at least and even after that you are not sure what the
original problem was.
A typical electrical problem in BMW is a faulty switch for rear
defroster. Can be bought at any junkyard for ~ 2$.
AUDI is in my mind a more complex car overall and specially the engine
and transmission.
I agree that it is a nice car on rainy/snowy roads as long as you
drive straight forward at a highway, even at high speeds.
High speed on snowy winding roads, with that I mean such speed that
you need all four wheels to give tracktion in prefered direction
before and through the bends, then is my S4 at best useless and even
dangerous if I have forgot to inactivate the electronic stabilty
system.
BMW is as good as the driver is able to handle. I general do I have
shorter time between work and home with the BMW but I am also
perspiring more compared when I arrive compared to when I drive the a
lot more comfortable AUDI. The few times I have been sweaty in the
AUDI, have been caused by that the ride not have been under good
control.
I have heard that RS4 is much better to handle on slippery roads but
it is too expensive for me.
/Alf
>daytripper wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:58:41 GMT, dizzy <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>mjcecil@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>In the end, it may sound like I prefer the M3 over the S4... That's
>>>>simply not the case. I absolutely LOVE the S4, and I have no regrets
>>>>about making the change.
>>>
>>>Nice report. I hope you as happy a few years from now, when the Audi
>>>has had more time to show it's reliability (or not).
>>
>>You mean like the detonating M3 engines?
>
>I was thinking more along the lines of electrical issues, which I have
>the impression is an issue for both brands.
I have both of these cars. They are a bit old (-00) so minor errors
are not any suprices. Both are very hard driven compared to average of
this kinds of cars due to speed, average 100 mph or more, not much on
autobahn in Germany but this is on small and winding roads with a lot
of the milage on gravel surface roads.
Both my BMW and AUDI have needed some replacement parts but nothing
unusual compared to how I use the cars.
But my AUDI needs new front pads twice a year and once a year new
front discs and bearings. I have tested several brands of pads but
harder pads seems only to reduce lifetime of the disc. For the BMW do
I mount new pads every year and have newer replaced the discs or
bearings. Shock absobers have I destroyed severals on both cars but it
is mainly due to bad roads.
Regarding electrical problem, here is my view:
A typical electrical fault in AUDI causes engine in limp mode, you
need vag-com to get 5 errors, all hard to understand, and every error
costs 100$ at least and even after that you are not sure what the
original problem was.
A typical electrical problem in BMW is a faulty switch for rear
defroster. Can be bought at any junkyard for ~ 2$.
AUDI is in my mind a more complex car overall and specially the engine
and transmission.
I agree that it is a nice car on rainy/snowy roads as long as you
drive straight forward at a highway, even at high speeds.
High speed on snowy winding roads, with that I mean such speed that
you need all four wheels to give tracktion in prefered direction
before and through the bends, then is my S4 at best useless and even
dangerous if I have forgot to inactivate the electronic stabilty
system.
BMW is as good as the driver is able to handle. I general do I have
shorter time between work and home with the BMW but I am also
perspiring more compared when I arrive compared to when I drive the a
lot more comfortable AUDI. The few times I have been sweaty in the
AUDI, have been caused by that the ride not have been under good
control.
I have heard that RS4 is much better to handle on slippery roads but
it is too expensive for me.
/Alf