MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

From: speedc@cs.man.ac.uk (C Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Date: Tue Aug 1 10:23:46 1995

>OK, so instead of my posting the same tedious stuff every day,
>why don't you actually read the contents, and make a meaningful
>reply? Something more constructive than those silly little
>jokes about paranoia perhaps? Like what objectively can you do
>to break the conspiracy open, if one exists ? If somebody
>did it to you, what would you do?

But we've *done* that. I certainly have at least. Way back when you
originally started posting and your posts were neither tediously repetitve
nor stupidly long.

But whenever anyone makes any good suggestions you ignore them and start
posting from the begining again. You don't want us to help you - so what do
you want? If you really wanted help you would listen to peoples suggestions
and respond to them. Is this just an attention thing?
But I'll try again, because I'm a fool like that.

>o Tell people about it, go to the police / legal services
> Done that; those around me either don't believe me, or they
>"sort of" believe but can't do anything about it. As for going
>to the police; I did, over Easter. Discouraging. They must be
>familiar with the occasional person walking into a station with
>this sort of story. "If a psychiatrist says you're imagining
>it, then that's what it is".

You haven't yet given any examples of anything concrete to suggest that this
is really happening to you. This, I would imagine, will be the stumbling
block for the police. How can they possibly help you when your only evidence
is a jumbled mess of TV presenters saying things that could be construed as
answers to your comments and the 'feeling' that people are talking about you
and watching you?

I seem to recall that last time this was being discussed someone asked if you
had been to see a psychiatrist about this - after all if this is really
happening then you have can only benefit from being given a clean bill of
health. I don't recall an answer.

> I also went to a firm of solicitors; again, very
>discouraging. Put bluntly, they can't deal with cases where the
>perpetrators aren't well-defined and the existence of the crime
>itself is unprovable.

Well how could they? Who would you sue? The country?

>o so if that option is out, what's left? well, there's the
>"do nothing" option. To some extent this option works. They've
>spent a lot of money and ultimately achieved nothing except to
>force me out of the country - which has been an own goal for
>them, since now they can't do what they were doing in the UK.
>Expenditure of further resources would feed the pockets of
>their greedy contractors, but is a waste of money as far as the
>employing organization is concerned.

So you are no longer in the uk? And this is not happening anymore?

Then let it go. Just leave it alone and get on with your life. Its just not
worth it. There is nothing you can do to prove that this happened whether it
did or did not. So forget it. Go and explore the net - when people aren't
spamming it with useless repetitve posts there's a lot of interesting and
worthwhile things out there to see and do. Likewise real life (I'm told *&).

>completely conventional, I have a good academic and work
>record. Until all this started, I had no mental health
>problems; the diagnosis of illness was only after 2 1/2 years
>of abuse. If they did this to me, they could do this to
>absolutely any British citizen. If this stuff gets out, it
>won't be me that has to worry - it'll be them. They take a
>normal person, lie about him, demonise him, try to force him
>into killing himself - and this is in a country where the rule
>of law applies?

If this gets out then *that* will be the time to bring your claims to the
foreground.

The only thing ruining your life right now is you, Mike. And the only thing
that will make your life any better now is also you. So go and make your
life better and show them that they failed.

Claire

************************************************** *****************************
* "And though we say all information should be free it is not. *
* Information is power and currency of the virtual world we inhabit." *
************************************************** *****************************
* C.Speed - <speedc@cs.man.ac.uk> <http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~speedc/> *
************************************************** *****************************

================================================== ======================

>But we've *done* that. I certainly have at least. Way back when you
>originally started posting and your posts were neither tediously repetitve
>nor stupidly long.

Once again we're running into a brick wall. The reason I started posting
was because I couldn't figure out a way out of the situation, and thought
that saying it out into the open would provide a catalyst for one of
those "in the know" (there are plenty in this category, and it's a fair
bet that some of them are reading this) to speak up.

It hasn't worked, yet. A little more aggressive -stirring (excuse expletive)
might do the trick. Perhaps Usenet posting is the wrong arena for this sort of
activity; although obviously it does have the advantage of rapid feedback.

Thing is, for people to open up, you would have to provide them with a
reason why it would be in their interest to do so. There's no obvious way
of doing that; to get thinking people to incriminate themselves when they're
safe in denying all knowledge is not a trick I can figure out how to do.

>But whenever anyone makes any good suggestions you ignore them and start
>posting from the begining again. You don't want us to help you - so what do
>you want? If you really wanted help you would listen to peoples suggestions
>and respond to them. Is this just an attention thing?
>But I'll try again, because I'm a fool like that.

A "good" suggestion would be one which had the effect of halting the
, which so far hasn't happened. If you make a "good" suggestion then
damn right I'll stop posting - because then I won't have to.

>You haven't yet given any examples of anything concrete to suggest that this
>is really happening to you. This, I would imagine, will be the stumbling
>block for the police. How can they possibly help you when your only evidence
>is a jumbled mess of TV presenters saying things that could be construed as
>answers to your comments and the 'feeling' that people are talking about you
>and watching you?

Because, as said previously, concrete proof does not exist. If it existed then
I wouldn't be talking to you - if it could be proved, or if those doing it
could be found, they wouldn't be able to continue.

What's happened is all conversation. You can't prove conversation, not without
a tape recorder, and even then you would have to prove that what they meant
corresponded to what you understood.

The psychopath who manages the Applics group at my previous employers
played little word games, not only with me but with at least one other
person in the group; words which rhyme with swear words, words which are
ambiguous, eg "bent", words which rhyme with ****, "sheet" rhymes with ,
end (how was your weak end? being the standard salutation on a Monday morning).
Sounds childish, most people would easily tell him to off; except to people
with predisposition to depression and the inability to express themselves
(this was before I started taking medication), that sort of nastiness is
not bearable. After ten months of this I was so ill I was crying constantly,
eventually I went into hospital and started on medication. Somebody else he
did this to (over a year later!) got so depressed he took an overdose of
pills, had to go on antidepressants and left.

And where does the "concrete proof" of this trouble exist? NOWHERE. Even
if you had physical evidence, even if you had the presence of mind to
record what was said, how could you prove what he actually meant by what
he was saying? In some cases of harassment you can prove what was done,
because it's undeniable. But when the harassment is done with any presence
of mind whatsoever, it becomes difficult. In the case of the wider harassment,
the people doing it obviously know what they're about - they must have done
similar things to other people before in one form or another, and they know
what they can get away with, they know what the police will do nothing about.

>I seem to recall that last time this was being discussed someone asked if you
>had been to see a psychiatrist about this - after all if this is really
>happening then you have can only benefit from being given a clean bill of
>health. I don't recall an answer.

Yes. The reply was of the "neither confirm nor deny" variety. Not much else
they can say, is there?

>Well how could they? Who would you sue? The country?

Hmmm, now there's a thought...

>If this gets out then *that* will be the time to bring your claims to the
>foreground.

Wrong way round. It won't get out unless I do something to bring that about;
remember, it isn't in THEIR interest for THEIR criminality to be exposed.
Yelling loudly on Usenet might nudge things along in the right direction.

>The only thing ruining your life right now is you, Mike. And the only thing
>that will make your life any better now is also you. So go and make your
>life better and show them that they failed.

Ignoring them would be bliss, but it's not a winning strategy.

There are going to be more of these posts. Sorry. That's the way it is.

4299


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