How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
news:ch0pov8ctmmsop2r312a7pgt51kjc9kslv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:05:04 +0100, "Hairy One Kenobi"
> <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >> A rotor turning typically costs between $5 and $10 per corner.
> >
> >I suspect that we might have a bit of a difference in labour rates -
> >assuming a dismount, align, and remount would take someone about an hour
>
> Mounting? Alignment? What are you talking about? Those thing have
> nothing to do with the comparison we're making: the cost of turning
> vs. the cost of replacement.
>
> If I drive down to my local machine shop, hand them four rotors, and
> say "turn these", it'll cost less than US$50. Heck, it'll probably be
> less than US$30.
Ah. You neglected to mention that you had dismounted the discs yourself
[i.e. removed then from the car] and used a second vehicle to take then to a
non-automotive machine shop. That makes a fair difference in cost..
> Any other costs involved in doing the brake job are not relevant,
> because you need to do them regardless of your decision on the
> question of resurfacing or replacing.
Well, again, comes down to if you're doing the work yourself.. OTOH, in
hindsight, I probably should have guessed this - after all, what company is
going to take liability for a set of turned discs, these days?
> >> You're wrong. Stop talking out of your ***.
> >
> >Erm. Which bit?
>
> Everything after "On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:58:44 +0100, "Ronny"
> <Ron@ron.com> wrote:"
;o)
Cruel, but amusing, comment.
Incidentally - have you really never experienced any judder after doing
this? As I said, my one experience was.. um.. well, "never again". I can't
recall how far out it was at the disc edge - not far, IIRC - but it was
enough to require disc replacement, pad replacement, and a hour or two
checking for consequential damage.. that after limping 20miles to home.
(Just like to reiterate - not my idea to skim the discs; I'd have replaced
'em, given that it was supposed to be a /full/ rebuild of my father's car)
H1K
news:ch0pov8ctmmsop2r312a7pgt51kjc9kslv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:05:04 +0100, "Hairy One Kenobi"
> <abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >> A rotor turning typically costs between $5 and $10 per corner.
> >
> >I suspect that we might have a bit of a difference in labour rates -
> >assuming a dismount, align, and remount would take someone about an hour
>
> Mounting? Alignment? What are you talking about? Those thing have
> nothing to do with the comparison we're making: the cost of turning
> vs. the cost of replacement.
>
> If I drive down to my local machine shop, hand them four rotors, and
> say "turn these", it'll cost less than US$50. Heck, it'll probably be
> less than US$30.
Ah. You neglected to mention that you had dismounted the discs yourself
[i.e. removed then from the car] and used a second vehicle to take then to a
non-automotive machine shop. That makes a fair difference in cost..
> Any other costs involved in doing the brake job are not relevant,
> because you need to do them regardless of your decision on the
> question of resurfacing or replacing.
Well, again, comes down to if you're doing the work yourself.. OTOH, in
hindsight, I probably should have guessed this - after all, what company is
going to take liability for a set of turned discs, these days?
> >> You're wrong. Stop talking out of your ***.
> >
> >Erm. Which bit?
>
> Everything after "On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:58:44 +0100, "Ronny"
> <Ron@ron.com> wrote:"
;o)
Cruel, but amusing, comment.
Incidentally - have you really never experienced any judder after doing
this? As I said, my one experience was.. um.. well, "never again". I can't
recall how far out it was at the disc edge - not far, IIRC - but it was
enough to require disc replacement, pad replacement, and a hour or two
checking for consequential damage.. that after limping 20miles to home.
(Just like to reiterate - not my idea to skim the discs; I'd have replaced
'em, given that it was supposed to be a /full/ rebuild of my father's car)
H1K
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
news:5g0oovsf07713pgq62f0e6mktimig1ur5f@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:58:44 +0100, "Ronny" <Ron@ron.com> wrote:
> >A Micrometer is more acurate than Vernier Caliper's, even so, this
American
> >method of turning down a set of Disc's <rotor's> is stupid and Dangerous.
>
> Sez you.
No "sez" common sense, of which you are lacking
> >In the UK a "Caliper" is the part of the braking system that holds the
pads
> >and pushes the piston.
>
> I'm pretty sure that's a caliper everywhere.
>
> Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Was that the world-famous British wit at work?
> My apologies.
haha yes British wit, unlike the corny 1 liners from overpaid American
actors, where everyone whoops and clap's as they enter a room
> >A set of discs will cost around £40.00 thats about $65.00,
>
> I don't know where you're buying your parts from, but a set of rotors
> for my 97 A4 costs almost US$200.00
Then you are going to the wrong place, check www.gsfcarparts.com,
60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8 20V ADR Eng. 95 Only
(Ch.8D-S-000333>8D-V-011310) 34.50 Add
60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4Q 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
Oh and look thats Brembo Discs, 21.50 for vented A4, 31.50 for cross drilled
> >the time taken in
> >removing a disc then putting it in a lathe then turning the disc down
will
> >cost much more than this.
>
> um, no.
>
> A rotor turning typically costs between $5 and $10 per corner.
>
> >and then all you have is "thinner" disc's.
>
> As long as the rotors are within spec and not warped, this is not an
> issue.
"Sez" you, I will stick to my new disc's thanks
> >Maybe in the 60's when Disc brakes were few and far between, it may have
> >been cheaper to skim the discs than to buy a new set, this is the 21st
> >century and all cars <almost> come with disc brakes, so prices are very
> >cheap.
>
> You're wrong. Stop talking out of your ***.
>
How am I wrong? care to explain,??????
Ron
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
Thanks to all for your answers. Of course, I do understand the possible
problem of rust formation and extreme temperature changes, for example when
hitting a pool of water after spirited driving.
However, excepting those and extreme circuit driving, I would still think
pad wear must be faithfully proportional to disc wear - after all if pads
wear, then so do rotors at a given rate. Now, if we set stock pads and discs
as a reference, then it should be possible to do such calculations as 2 or 3
sets. Before I got all your opinions I would have ventured 3 sets but now I
realize I was being too optimistic, maybe. Nobody mentioned the thinner the
discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly. So my
original question was something like, will 3 sets make the rotors so thin
that there will be a noticeable reduction in efficiency?
Of course, now the discussion could turn to aftermarket pads and how
efficient they are vs stock, then a difference in the number of sets would
sound quite logical to me.
Regards,
JP Roberts
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:bmcc0c$e4r$1@news.ya.com...
> Has anyone got any experience of the rotors in a stock A4 '98 1.8TQ, and
how
> many pad sets they are good for?
>
> I'm assuming they've been treated normally.
>
> I guess this is the most convenient way of calculating wear without
actually
> measuring their thickness.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JP
>
>
problem of rust formation and extreme temperature changes, for example when
hitting a pool of water after spirited driving.
However, excepting those and extreme circuit driving, I would still think
pad wear must be faithfully proportional to disc wear - after all if pads
wear, then so do rotors at a given rate. Now, if we set stock pads and discs
as a reference, then it should be possible to do such calculations as 2 or 3
sets. Before I got all your opinions I would have ventured 3 sets but now I
realize I was being too optimistic, maybe. Nobody mentioned the thinner the
discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly. So my
original question was something like, will 3 sets make the rotors so thin
that there will be a noticeable reduction in efficiency?
Of course, now the discussion could turn to aftermarket pads and how
efficient they are vs stock, then a difference in the number of sets would
sound quite logical to me.
Regards,
JP Roberts
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:bmcc0c$e4r$1@news.ya.com...
> Has anyone got any experience of the rotors in a stock A4 '98 1.8TQ, and
how
> many pad sets they are good for?
>
> I'm assuming they've been treated normally.
>
> I guess this is the most convenient way of calculating wear without
actually
> measuring their thickness.
>
> Thanks,
>
> JP
>
>
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:37:09 +0100, "Hairy One Kenobi"
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>Ah. You neglected to mention that you had dismounted the discs yourself
>[i.e. removed then from the car] and used a second vehicle to take then to a
>non-automotive machine shop. That makes a fair difference in cost..
sigh.
Any difference is irrelevant to the question at hand. All of those
things - the dismounting, the replacement, etc - have to happen
regardless of whether the rotors are resurfaced or replaced. The
rotors don't magically install themselves on the car simply because
you purchased new ones, you know.
Now that I say it, that paragraph sounds vaguely familiar...
>> Any other costs involved in doing the brake job are not relevant,
>> because you need to do them regardless of your decision on the
>> question of resurfacing or replacing.
Oh, there's why ^^^
>Well, again, comes down to if you're doing the work yourself.. OTOH, in
>hindsight, I probably should have guessed this - after all, what company is
>going to take liability for a set of turned discs, these days?
Rotors should be resurfaced or replaced every time you replace the
pads.
(I know some people are going to disagree with me about that. Please,
don't bother - you'll only be talking to hear yourself talk.)
>Incidentally - have you really never experienced any judder after doing
>this?
Nope.
There's a factory specification for the minimum thickness of the
rotors. If the rotors exceed that specification after resurfacing,
there's no reason to replace them.
<abuse@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>Ah. You neglected to mention that you had dismounted the discs yourself
>[i.e. removed then from the car] and used a second vehicle to take then to a
>non-automotive machine shop. That makes a fair difference in cost..
sigh.
Any difference is irrelevant to the question at hand. All of those
things - the dismounting, the replacement, etc - have to happen
regardless of whether the rotors are resurfaced or replaced. The
rotors don't magically install themselves on the car simply because
you purchased new ones, you know.
Now that I say it, that paragraph sounds vaguely familiar...
>> Any other costs involved in doing the brake job are not relevant,
>> because you need to do them regardless of your decision on the
>> question of resurfacing or replacing.
Oh, there's why ^^^
>Well, again, comes down to if you're doing the work yourself.. OTOH, in
>hindsight, I probably should have guessed this - after all, what company is
>going to take liability for a set of turned discs, these days?
Rotors should be resurfaced or replaced every time you replace the
pads.
(I know some people are going to disagree with me about that. Please,
don't bother - you'll only be talking to hear yourself talk.)
>Incidentally - have you really never experienced any judder after doing
>this?
Nope.
There's a factory specification for the minimum thickness of the
rotors. If the rotors exceed that specification after resurfacing,
there's no reason to replace them.
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:41:54 +0100, "Ronny" <Ron@ron.com> wrote:
>No "sez" common sense, of which you are lacking
argumentum ad hominem, blah blah blah
>> >A set of discs will cost around £40.00 thats about $65.00,
>>
>> I don't know where you're buying your parts from, but a set of rotors
>> for my 97 A4 costs almost US$200.00
>
>Then you are going to the wrong place, check www.gsfcarparts.com,
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8 20V ADR Eng. 95 Only
>(Ch.8D-S-000333>8D-V-011310) 34.50 Add
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
>2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4Q 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
>2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
How many wheels does your car have?
34.50
+34.50
+34.50
+34.50
-------------
138.00
....and that's pounds, so US$229.89
I notice, hoever, that GBP$34.50 is around US$57.50, which is pretty
close to your original estimate. Perhaps this is another language
difference. In Great Britian, is "set" defined as "one"?
>"Sez" you, I will stick to my new disc's thanks
Hey man, it's your money.
>> > it may have
>> >been cheaper to skim the discs than to buy a new set, this is the 21st
>> >century and all cars <almost> come with disc brakes, so prices are very
>> >cheap.
>>
>> You're wrong. Stop talking out of your ***.
>>
>>How am I wrong? care to explain,??????
Asked and answered.
As I have already demonstrated using the magic of "math" it is cheaper
to resurface the rotors than it is to replace them.
I am of the opinion, based on my experience, that there is no harm in
resurfacing rotors provided that they exceed the factory
specification. You might disagree with that. I do not care. Your
opinion doesn't change the fact that it is cheaper to resurface the
rotors than it is to replace them.
>No "sez" common sense, of which you are lacking
argumentum ad hominem, blah blah blah
>> >A set of discs will cost around £40.00 thats about $65.00,
>>
>> I don't know where you're buying your parts from, but a set of rotors
>> for my 97 A4 costs almost US$200.00
>
>Then you are going to the wrong place, check www.gsfcarparts.com,
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8 20V ADR Eng. 95 Only
>(Ch.8D-S-000333>8D-V-011310) 34.50 Add
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
>2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
> 60225F BRAKE DISC-BREMBO'MAX' A4Q 1.8T / 1.9TDi AFN/AJM Engs./ 2.4 /
>2.5TDi / 2.6 / 2.8 V6 95> 34.50 Add
How many wheels does your car have?
34.50
+34.50
+34.50
+34.50
-------------
138.00
....and that's pounds, so US$229.89
I notice, hoever, that GBP$34.50 is around US$57.50, which is pretty
close to your original estimate. Perhaps this is another language
difference. In Great Britian, is "set" defined as "one"?
>"Sez" you, I will stick to my new disc's thanks
Hey man, it's your money.
>> > it may have
>> >been cheaper to skim the discs than to buy a new set, this is the 21st
>> >century and all cars <almost> come with disc brakes, so prices are very
>> >cheap.
>>
>> You're wrong. Stop talking out of your ***.
>>
>>How am I wrong? care to explain,??????
Asked and answered.
As I have already demonstrated using the magic of "math" it is cheaper
to resurface the rotors than it is to replace them.
I am of the opinion, based on my experience, that there is no harm in
resurfacing rotors provided that they exceed the factory
specification. You might disagree with that. I do not care. Your
opinion doesn't change the fact that it is cheaper to resurface the
rotors than it is to replace them.
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bmjb33$q9a$1@news.ya.com...
> Thanks to all for your answers. Of course, I do understand the possible
> problem of rust formation and extreme temperature changes, for example
when
> hitting a pool of water after spirited driving.
>
> However, excepting those and extreme circuit driving, I would still think
> pad wear must be faithfully proportional to disc wear - after all if pads
> wear, then so do rotors at a given rate. Now, if we set stock pads and
discs
> as a reference, then it should be possible to do such calculations as 2 or
3
> sets. Before I got all your opinions I would have ventured 3 sets but now
I
> realize I was being too optimistic, maybe. Nobody mentioned the thinner
the
> discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
> dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly. So my
> original question was something like, will 3 sets make the rotors so thin
> that there will be a noticeable reduction in efficiency?
>
> Of course, now the discussion could turn to aftermarket pads and how
> efficient they are vs stock, then a difference in the number of sets would
> sound quite logical to me.
>
> Regards,
>
> JP Roberts
>
After experiance JP I would say you should get 2 sets of pads per 1 disc, I
use cross Drilled and vented Disc's on my A4 Quattro, and have done 40k
miles on 1 set of pads and they still look fine. I drive it fairly hard, but
more motorway miles then stop start.
If you can, get yourself some Zimmerman Cross Drilled disc's and some Pagid
Fast road pads, change the lot all round 4 discs and 2 sets of pads.
The cost for me was £100.00 per axle thats $150 approx, if you require
cheaper stuff, than go with OEM, but A4 brakes are terrible at best, the
upgrade really is worth it ..
hth
Ron
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmjb33$q9a$1@news.ya.com>...
> Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
> dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
Actually, I sorta did:
"They [new rotors] are relatively inexpensive, and the more mass, the
better you can stop."
Spider
> Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
> dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
Actually, I sorta did:
"They [new rotors] are relatively inexpensive, and the more mass, the
better you can stop."
Spider
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
Right Spider
"Spider" <beelzebubba@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:73da2590.0310150901.6ee9ae74@posting.google.c om...
> "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bmjb33$q9a$1@news.ya.com>...
> > Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> > discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their
heat
> > dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
>
> Actually, I sorta did:
>
> "They [new rotors] are relatively inexpensive, and the more mass, the
> better you can stop."
>
> Spider
"Spider" <beelzebubba@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:73da2590.0310150901.6ee9ae74@posting.google.c om...
> "JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<bmjb33$q9a$1@news.ya.com>...
> > Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> > discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their
heat
> > dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
>
> Actually, I sorta did:
>
> "They [new rotors] are relatively inexpensive, and the more mass, the
> better you can stop."
>
> Spider
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How may pad sets will a rotor stand?
"JP Roberts" <1234@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bmjb33$q9a$1@news.ya.com>...
> Thanks to all for your answers. Of course, I do understand the possible
> problem of rust formation and extreme temperature changes, for example when
> hitting a pool of water after spirited driving.
Apparently, you don't, really. The rust I mentioned comes from
letting the car sit parked outside overnight where condensation (dew)
forms on the rotors, forms drips on the inside and outside edges,
rusts in those areas, and is insufficiently cleared the following day
because the driver's normal braking pattern is too tentative or
gentle. The rust then slowly starts cutting away the surface of the
pad (it's harder than the pad) and the pad gets progressively worse at
clearing the rust which obviously continues cutting away more pad.
Quite a nasty syndrome that's easily addressed by braking more
aggressively to be sure to knock off all the rust daily. Driving
through water has almost nothing to do with it. The greatest problems
with rust on rotors come from the car *sitting*, not being driven.
> However, excepting those and extreme circuit driving, I would still think
> pad wear must be faithfully proportional to disc wear - after all if pads
> wear, then so do rotors at a given rate.
For an individual driver, that's correct, but some drivers can still
extend their pads' lives by 'smart braking', so your mileage *still*
may vary.
> Now, if we set stock pads and discs
> as a reference, then it should be possible to do such calculations as 2 or 3
> sets. Before I got all your opinions I would have ventured 3 sets but now I
> realize I was being too optimistic, maybe.
Fair enough. Two sets isn't a bad rule of thumb.
> Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
> dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
Good thinking.
> Of course, now the discussion could turn to aftermarket pads and how
> efficient they are vs stock, then a difference in the number of sets would
> sound quite logical to me.
Like PBR Deluxe pads ...
--
C.R. Krieger
"Ignore 'em, m'dear; they're beneath our dignity." - W.C. Fields
> Thanks to all for your answers. Of course, I do understand the possible
> problem of rust formation and extreme temperature changes, for example when
> hitting a pool of water after spirited driving.
Apparently, you don't, really. The rust I mentioned comes from
letting the car sit parked outside overnight where condensation (dew)
forms on the rotors, forms drips on the inside and outside edges,
rusts in those areas, and is insufficiently cleared the following day
because the driver's normal braking pattern is too tentative or
gentle. The rust then slowly starts cutting away the surface of the
pad (it's harder than the pad) and the pad gets progressively worse at
clearing the rust which obviously continues cutting away more pad.
Quite a nasty syndrome that's easily addressed by braking more
aggressively to be sure to knock off all the rust daily. Driving
through water has almost nothing to do with it. The greatest problems
with rust on rotors come from the car *sitting*, not being driven.
> However, excepting those and extreme circuit driving, I would still think
> pad wear must be faithfully proportional to disc wear - after all if pads
> wear, then so do rotors at a given rate.
For an individual driver, that's correct, but some drivers can still
extend their pads' lives by 'smart braking', so your mileage *still*
may vary.
> Now, if we set stock pads and discs
> as a reference, then it should be possible to do such calculations as 2 or 3
> sets. Before I got all your opinions I would have ventured 3 sets but now I
> realize I was being too optimistic, maybe.
Fair enough. Two sets isn't a bad rule of thumb.
> Nobody mentioned the thinner the
> discs - and no I'm not into having them lathe-turned, the worse their heat
> dissipation capability becomes, which reduces efficiency greatly.
Good thinking.
> Of course, now the discussion could turn to aftermarket pads and how
> efficient they are vs stock, then a difference in the number of sets would
> sound quite logical to me.
Like PBR Deluxe pads ...
--
C.R. Krieger
"Ignore 'em, m'dear; they're beneath our dignity." - W.C. Fields