Bill Graham

Hello,

What are you folks' fluid recommendations for late eighties Audi Turbo's?
Gear oil, brake fluid, engine oil, fuel injector cleaner/treatment, grease,
coolant, etc..

I've been referred to RedLine products for some of these.

Thanks,

Bill Graham

Bill Graham

Evidently I should have searched for this topic before posting, since I have
been told that this topic has been covered extensively.

I realize that this information is an various manual publications, but I
wondering more about productions that have come out after the publications
i.e. Synthetic products, etc..

Thanks.

Bill Graham

> Hello,
>
> What are you folks' fluid recommendations for late eighties Audi Turbo's?
> Gear oil, brake fluid, engine oil, fuel injector cleaner/treatment, grease,
> coolant, etc..
>
> I've been referred to RedLine products for some of these.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill Graham
>

JPF

Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
Regular oil if you don't.
I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.

Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.

My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.

Bill Graham

Thanks for you run down.

I ordered the Bentley manuals today. Used price, but still sealed. Does the
book give instructions for changing the oil in the turbo. I do not know when
and if that was done. I'll start out changing everything so I can then keep
track. It would be easier if the odometer was working.

I'm picking up the car on Monday morning. $1500.00. I talked to the sellers
again today. The most recent service record they have, from this year, was
for when they had the AC converted from freon to the currently used stuff. I
think I'll have a full record of everything done to this car.

Do fixes, the expensive one's at least, STAY fixed typically?

Thanks again!

> Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
> The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
> Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
> Regular oil if you don't.
> I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
> motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
> Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.
>
> Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
> overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
> regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.
>
> My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
> runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
> car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.

Bill Graham

I don't want to clog up the newsgroup, so would you mind if I sent you an
e-mail on occasion while I'm familiarizing myself with this car? If that's
o.k., I must be dense in regards the "removetheobvious" directions of your
e-mail address. Mind sending me one?

Thanks.

> Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
> The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
> Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
> Regular oil if you don't.
> I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
> motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
> Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.
>
> Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
> overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
> regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.
>
> My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
> runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
> car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.

Steve Sears

Bill,
The expensive fixes stay fixed - so long as the "while you're at it" fixes
were done at the same time - eg. Replaced the rear main crank seal when the
clutch was replaced, replaced tensioner when the timing belt was done, etc.
It's often the parts that could have been easily removed and cheaply
replaced during the big service that will be a lot of grief if they fail and
the whole thing has to be torn apart to fix a 2cent part.
If it hasn't had it done already, you should contemplate a (near) complete
rubber mount replacement in the near future - the front subframe mounts,
tranny mounts, engine mounts, suspension mounts. The parts are fairly
inexpensive, and any oil/ps fluid leaks in the past may have really eaten up
the rubber. Consider that you'll only do it once and you'll be done with
it - and it will make the car a much more solid ride.
So far as the oil change, just do it as normal, remove drain plug from
bottom of the engine oil pan, remove filter, fill new filter with oil,
install and torque to spec, put new washer on drain plug and put back in,
torque to spec (do not overtorque), fill oil to mark (car level), start up,
run till warm, stop, check oil - top up if necessary. The turbo takes oil
from the engine system so there's no independent draining of the turbo to be
contemplated.
[Interesting bit of trivia - my friend won a Ferrari last week, when asked
about oil changes, the delivery guy said that it costs $5,000 (Canadian
pesos) for one - I hope that's for "Ferrari Oil" that has molecules shaped
like a rearing stallion.]
BTW, I use Mobil 1 15W50 in my 1987 5ktq, but it was an abused puppy when I
got it and seems to run fine with the stuff - although I use a block heater
to keep it from solidfying in the winter
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
"Bill Graham" <whgraham@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BBC9BB1A.204FE%whgraham@nc.rr.com...
> Thanks for you run down.
>
> I ordered the Bentley manuals today. Used price, but still sealed. Does
the
> book give instructions for changing the oil in the turbo. I do not know
when
> and if that was done. I'll start out changing everything so I can then
keep
> track. It would be easier if the odometer was working.
>
> I'm picking up the car on Monday morning. $1500.00. I talked to the
sellers
> again today. The most recent service record they have, from this year, was
> for when they had the AC converted from freon to the currently used stuff.
I
> think I'll have a full record of everything done to this car.
>
> Do fixes, the expensive one's at least, STAY fixed typically?
>
> Thanks again!
>
> > Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
> > The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
> > Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
> > Regular oil if you don't.
> > I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
> > motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
> > Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.
> >
> > Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
> > overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
> > regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.
> >
> > My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
> > runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
> > car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.
>

Steve Sears

Bill,
it's obvious - you remove that. Many posters on the newsgroups use phrases
like that imbedded in the return address so that Spammers who collect
addresses off the net will send their offers for Viagra, money from Nigeria,
free Pay TV, etc. to an account that will bounce.
It doesn't totally block them, just slows the flow down to a trickle of junk
mail.
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"Bill Graham" <whgraham@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BBC9C3CA.20507%whgraham@nc.rr.com...
> I don't want to clog up the newsgroup, so would you mind if I sent you an
> e-mail on occasion while I'm familiarizing myself with this car? If that's
> o.k., I must be dense in regards the "removetheobvious" directions of your
> e-mail address. Mind sending me one?
>
> Thanks.
>
> > Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
> > The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
> > Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
> > Regular oil if you don't.
> > I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
> > motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
> > Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.
> >
> > Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
> > overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
> > regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.
> >
> > My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
> > runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
> > car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.
>

Stu Hedith

I think he means the things that go on your feet.
It's also the only thing in all caps.

Stu

Bill Graham wrote:

> I don't want to clog up the newsgroup, so would you mind if I sent you an
> e-mail on occasion while I'm familiarizing myself with this car? If that's
> o.k., I must be dense in regards the "removetheobvious" directions of your
> e-mail address. Mind sending me one?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>>Synthetics in the diffs and gearboxes.
>>The old boxes shift a bit stiff with regular gear oil.
>>Synthetic in the engine if you plan to pound it.
>>Regular oil if you don't.
>>I use Valvoline full synthetic gear oil for diffs, Pentosin synthetic
>>motor oil if I need 5W-40 and BMW/Mini synthetic if I need 5W-30.
>>Why? Price and availability. Any brand will do.
>>
>>Many turbo owners prefer synthetics. The older cars are
>>overengineered, have water cooled turbos and after-run cooling. With
>>regular oils and regular intervals, you'll never kill a turbocharger.
>>
>>My personal fleet runs cheap oil, changed a lot. The tweaked 5KCSQ
>>runs synthetic, changed a lot. But I beat the living snot out of that
>>car for the 1,500 or so miles it goes a year.
>
>

David Reid

Though you all would enjoy this article as it relates to European
Lubricants.
It was published recently in an Amsoil related news letter.

Regards,
David
www.synthetic-solutions.com

October 15, 2003
European Vehicles Require High End Oils European vehicles are designed
to use higher quality European lubricants, often posing problems for
American owners.

Many popular North American engine oils may actually be harmful to
European engines. European automobile manufacturers design vehicles to
use specific high quality lubricants with specific properties and
additives. Most motor oils offered in America do not meet the
demanding specifications, and the European lubricants are not readily
available. As a result, problems such as premature wear and engine
sludge develop.

"Europeans build their cars and impose higher requirements on the
type of oil than we are used to here in North America," remarks an oil
industry source. "They have more of a multi-tier system within their
specifications, whereas the API uses the lowest common denominator as
a guideline. It is by its own admission, within API 1509, a minimum
spec."

While the American Petroleum Institute (API) sets oil standards in
America, the Automotive Manufacturers Association (ACEA) sets them in
Europe. "ACEA standards reflect a wider complexity of the offering of
engines on the market right now," says Ilerve Blanquart, VP Automotive
of Motul North America. "On top of that, manufacturers have
introduced their own standards, most of which start with the ACEA
standards, and go further in specific tests to solve specific problems
and address specific issues."

In the U.S., the API adopts one standard for all engine oils. "For
example they are working on ILSAC GF-4, and the problems they are
running into is that this oil will be too thin for a lot of older
engines," explains Blanquart. "In Europe, they decided from the
beginning that they would not adopt a linear standard - rather a
standard for each type of application -- gas, diesel, turbo, etc."

European vehicle manufacturers keep tight control over which
lubricants they allow to be used in their vehicles. Inner-company
bureaucracies are in charge of keeping the approved lubricant lists
up-to-date with the latest requirements, and a few companies apply
some of the regulations to North America. European aftermarket service
stations must stock different lubricants for different automobile
brands. Sometimes different models put out by the same manufacturer
require different lubricants.

Do-it-yourselfers are less prevalent in Europe. Qualified repair
shops, franchised or tightly controlled by the vehicle manufacturers
in order to dictate the type of oil being used, typically perform most
of the oil changes.

The high quality oils used in Europe allow Europeans to enjoy longer
drain intervals. However, when European vehicles are exported to the
United States, the concept becomes distorted.

"There is in general a longer drain associated with the higher tier
oils in the European system," remarks the oil industry source. "So the
thought process is - if we don't allow the longer drain in North
America, consumers should be able to get by with APl spec oils - but
it leaves manu- facturers open to the type of problems Mercedes-Benz
recently experienced."

A recent class—action lawsuit brought forward by owners of certain
1998 through 2001 Mercedes-Benz vehicles claimed they weren't informed
that synthetic motor oil was required in order to take advantage of
the extended drain intervals afforded through the use of the vehicles'
Flexible Service System (FSS). Many using conventional oils
experienced premature wear problems, and the settlement cost the
company over $32 million.

"The long drain indicator used by Mercedes is predicated on using
Mercedes-Benz-approved oil, which is a very top quality synthetic
oil," explains the oil company source. "When those vehicles came to
the States, somehow dealerships weren't impressing upon the consumer
the need to use the right oil. And whether or not the dealers were
doing so, some consumers were putting in regular API spec oil,
resulting in problems."

Although synthetic motor oils are generally of higher quality than
conventional oils, not all synthetics can meet the stringent European
specifications. "A good quality synthetic could solve the problem,"
says the source, "but in the case of Mercedes-Benz, for example,
you're dealing with an extremely high-spec oil. Not every synthetic
is going to meet that spec. Some only meet the baseline API specs.
Just because it's a synthetic doesn't mean it's a top tier product.

"Shop owners must keep in mind that there are numerous special
requirements for European vehicles and that they shouldn't always be
knee-jerking to the stuff in the big tank. If you call Mercedes-Benz,
Volvo, or VW, for example, they should be telling you that their
vehicle needs ACEA spec products."

Although it's easy to assume that the more expensive the vehicle, the
better quality the lubricant it needs, that's not always the case. For
example, the mid-priced Volkswagen TDI requires a very specific, high
spec lubricant.

JPF

Great article, David.
It doesn't apply to the 25 year old engine in the '89 200, however.
One thing left out of the article was that the MB FSS specifies oil
changes between 8,000 and 12,000 miles. A bti of a stretch for grocery
store oil in anything.
Lexus found themselves with similar problem recently. The 3.0 V6
engines would sludge up and expire when service was extended over 10K
on regular oils.




On 3 Nov 2003 18:04:33 -0800, dreid@synthetic-solutions.com (David
Reid) wrote:

>>Snipped an article worth reading<<