Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
"Michael Burman" <yak@iki-fi.invalid> wrote in message
news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
> Tha Ghee wrote:
> > if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non 4x4s do
> > pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the wheels
motivating.
>
> Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
> inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or more,
> depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and at least
> based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW, and myself an
> Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow conditions. It also
> won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when there's ice on the ground.
>
> And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is better.
>
> - Yak
ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are all RWD
and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
> Tha Ghee wrote:
> > if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non 4x4s do
> > pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the wheels
motivating.
>
> Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
> inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or more,
> depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and at least
> based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW, and myself an
> Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow conditions. It also
> won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when there's ice on the ground.
>
> And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is better.
>
> - Yak
ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are all RWD
and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by RWD
vehicles.
The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
"Tha Ghee" <grewatson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40298be4$0$73081$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> "Michael Burman" <yak@iki-fi.invalid> wrote in message
> news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
> > Tha Ghee wrote:
> > > if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non 4x4s
do
> > > pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the wheels
> motivating.
> >
> > Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
> > inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or more,
> > depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and at least
> > based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW, and myself an
> > Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow conditions. It also
> > won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when there's ice on the ground.
> >
> > And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is better.
> >
> > - Yak
>
> ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are all RWD
> and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
>
>
vehicles.
The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
"Tha Ghee" <grewatson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40298be4$0$73081$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
> "Michael Burman" <yak@iki-fi.invalid> wrote in message
> news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
> > Tha Ghee wrote:
> > > if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non 4x4s
do
> > > pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the wheels
> motivating.
> >
> > Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
> > inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or more,
> > depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and at least
> > based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW, and myself an
> > Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow conditions. It also
> > won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when there's ice on the ground.
> >
> > And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is better.
> >
> > - Yak
>
> ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are all RWD
> and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
>
>
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
"Jay Jones" <jayjones21@***.net> wrote in message
news:HCgWb.31604$fZ6.633@lakeread06...
> Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by RWD
> vehicles.
>
> The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
> their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
> with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
> the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>
so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
news:HCgWb.31604$fZ6.633@lakeread06...
> Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by RWD
> vehicles.
>
> The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
> their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
> with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
> the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>
so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
>so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid
Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help cope
with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
> last time I check
>Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
>only make RWD
Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in Xi
trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV. Infiniti just introduced an
AWD version of the G35. Tests have proven that with standard road tires FWD
cars behave in a superior manner to RWD cars in many winter conditions. That
doesn't mean that people can't make RWD work in ice/snow/rain/etc...but it
isn't *ideal*.
Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help cope
with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
> last time I check
>Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
>only make RWD
Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in Xi
trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV. Infiniti just introduced an
AWD version of the G35. Tests have proven that with standard road tires FWD
cars behave in a superior manner to RWD cars in many winter conditions. That
doesn't mean that people can't make RWD work in ice/snow/rain/etc...but it
isn't *ideal*.
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
Tha Ghee wrote:
> last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
Um, the biggest German car company is VW, and they make mostly FWD and
AWD cars.
--
Mike Smith
> last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
Um, the biggest German car company is VW, and they make mostly FWD and
AWD cars.
--
Mike Smith
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
Steve Grauman wrote:
>>so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid
>
>
> Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help cope
> with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
>
>
>>last time I check
>>Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
>>only make RWD
>
>
> Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in Xi
> trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
> Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
> FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV.
And in the case of Porsche, most of their cars are rear-engined; i.e.
the engine is over the drive wheels, as with FWD cars.
--
Mike Smith
>>so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid
>
>
> Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help cope
> with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
>
>
>>last time I check
>>Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
>>only make RWD
>
>
> Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in Xi
> trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
> Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
> FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV.
And in the case of Porsche, most of their cars are rear-engined; i.e.
the engine is over the drive wheels, as with FWD cars.
--
Mike Smith
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
Tha Ghee wrote:
> "Jay Jones" <jayjones21@***.net> wrote in message
> news:HCgWb.31604$fZ6.633@lakeread06...
>
>>Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by RWD
>>vehicles.
>>
>>The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
>>their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
>>with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
>>the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>>
>
> so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
> cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
>
First off, I want to address the RWD truck arguement. It would be
assanine to make one FWD. The whole idea behind a truck is to carry
stuff in the bed. If someone over loaded the truck there would be very
little weight over the drive wheels. THAT is why they are RWD. AND by
the way, they SUCK in the snow because there is very little weight over
the drive wheels when the bed is empty. Most people with RWD trucks
carry weight in the back during snow season (buckets of sand, stacked
logs, etc.) to improve the traction. You are missing the point when
talking about luxury cars as well. It's not the fact that they are
luxury cars, but it's that they are sports sedans or performance
oriented vehichles. RWD is preferred over FWD in competitive driving.
AWD is better, but it costs more. Some people prefer not to pay for it.
Doesn't make them stupid. Their priorities are just in different places.
Stu
> "Jay Jones" <jayjones21@***.net> wrote in message
> news:HCgWb.31604$fZ6.633@lakeread06...
>
>>Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by RWD
>>vehicles.
>>
>>The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out with
>>their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they documented
>>with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be driven at over twice
>>the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>>
>
> so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
> cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
>
First off, I want to address the RWD truck arguement. It would be
assanine to make one FWD. The whole idea behind a truck is to carry
stuff in the bed. If someone over loaded the truck there would be very
little weight over the drive wheels. THAT is why they are RWD. AND by
the way, they SUCK in the snow because there is very little weight over
the drive wheels when the bed is empty. Most people with RWD trucks
carry weight in the back during snow season (buckets of sand, stacked
logs, etc.) to improve the traction. You are missing the point when
talking about luxury cars as well. It's not the fact that they are
luxury cars, but it's that they are sports sedans or performance
oriented vehichles. RWD is preferred over FWD in competitive driving.
AWD is better, but it costs more. Some people prefer not to pay for it.
Doesn't make them stupid. Their priorities are just in different places.
Stu
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
Tha Ghee wrote:
> so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
> cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
Last time I checked, Germany doesn't really have ice and snow . They
don't even allow you to use real snow tires, or should I say winter
tires we use here in Finland (with little metallic spikes on the tyre).
Ouh, guess what: Even they won't make it summer.
- Yak
> so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid, what about luxury
> cars. if your concerned about ice get snow tires. last time I check
> Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> only make RWD, (minus the British Mini and DC Smart Cars).
Last time I checked, Germany doesn't really have ice and snow . They
don't even allow you to use real snow tires, or should I say winter
tires we use here in Finland (with little metallic spikes on the tyre).
Ouh, guess what: Even they won't make it summer.
- Yak
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
*** post for FREE via your newsreader at post.newsfeed.com ***
With a FWD car, a loss of traction under acceleration results in a loss of
steering control. With a RWD car, not only can you retain steering control
when traction is lost under acceleration, but you can use the throttle at
the limit to control the attitude of the car through the corner. (And "at
the limit" can be as slow as 20 or 30 mph in snowy conditions, so the
benefits aren't just for road racers.) Why do you suppose that *all* race
cars and purpose-built high-performance street cars are either RWD or AWD?
The only performance-oriented cars with FWD that I can think of off the top
of my head are souped-up versions of plebian commuter cars -- not car that
were designe from the ground up to have excellent performance
characteristics. A well-designed car that gives its driver performance
benefits in high-speed driving on dry roads also gives its driver
performance benefits in slow-speed driving on slippery roads.
FWD isn't popular because of its handling characteristics. FWD is popular
because unibody construction is a cheap way to build a car, and FWD is a
much easier layout to implement in unibody construction than RWD.
When a FWD car wears a Porsche or Corvette badge, come talk to me about the
performance superiority of FWD.
- Greg Reed
--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
Jay Jones wrote:
> Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by
> RWD vehicles.
>
> The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out
> with their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they
> documented with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be
> driven at over twice the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>
>
> "Tha Ghee" <grewatson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40298be4$0$73081$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
>> "Michael Burman" <yak@iki-fi.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
>>> Tha Ghee wrote:
>>>> if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non
>>>> 4x4s do pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the
>>>> wheels motivating.
>>>
>>> Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
>>> inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or
>>> more, depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and
>>> at least based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW,
>>> and myself an Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow
>>> conditions. It also won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when
>>> there's ice on the ground.
>>>
>>> And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is
>>> better.
>>>
>>> - Yak
>>
>> ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are
>> all RWD and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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With a FWD car, a loss of traction under acceleration results in a loss of
steering control. With a RWD car, not only can you retain steering control
when traction is lost under acceleration, but you can use the throttle at
the limit to control the attitude of the car through the corner. (And "at
the limit" can be as slow as 20 or 30 mph in snowy conditions, so the
benefits aren't just for road racers.) Why do you suppose that *all* race
cars and purpose-built high-performance street cars are either RWD or AWD?
The only performance-oriented cars with FWD that I can think of off the top
of my head are souped-up versions of plebian commuter cars -- not car that
were designe from the ground up to have excellent performance
characteristics. A well-designed car that gives its driver performance
benefits in high-speed driving on dry roads also gives its driver
performance benefits in slow-speed driving on slippery roads.
FWD isn't popular because of its handling characteristics. FWD is popular
because unibody construction is a cheap way to build a car, and FWD is a
much easier layout to implement in unibody construction than RWD.
When a FWD car wears a Porsche or Corvette badge, come talk to me about the
performance superiority of FWD.
- Greg Reed
--
1976 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 9-Pass sedan
(FS: http://www.dataspire.com/caddy)
1989 Audi 200 Turbo Quattro 5-Speed sedan
2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2001 Chevy Astro AWD (wife's)
Jay Jones wrote:
> Obviously there are a lot of stupid people in the U.S. that still by
> RWD vehicles.
>
> The facts have been documented for almost 40 years. When GM came out
> with their first FWD cars in the late 60s (like Olds Tornado), they
> documented with driver testing that FWD vehicles could safely be
> driven at over twice the speed of a comparable RWD vehicle on ice.
>
>
> "Tha Ghee" <grewatson@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40298be4$0$73081$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
>> "Michael Burman" <yak@iki-fi.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:busbrq$ia82$1@midnight.cs.hut.fi...
>>> Tha Ghee wrote:
>>>> if RWD sucks, then explain why all PU truck are RWD and the non
>>>> 4x4s do pretty well in the snow it's about driving skill not the
>>>> wheels motivating.
>>>
>>> Well, ask any professional driver and they will tell you RWD is
>>> inferiour to FWD in snow/ice. Here we got snow maybe 4 months (or
>>> more, depending on the latitude) of the whole year (Finland), and
>>> at least based on what I've drove (my dad has a MB, my mom a BMW,
>>> and myself an Audi), FWD is much easier to handle in ice/snow
>>> conditions. It also won't get stuck so easily on uphills, when
>>> there's ice on the ground.
>>>
>>> And looking how taxis drive, those with even MB won't say RWD is
>>> better.
>>>
>>> - Yak
>>
>> ok but then explain why the top 3 selling vehicles in America are
>> all RWD and there sold in Midwest and it snow there a lot??
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buying new A4,330i, G35, CTS, C320
"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040211003906.21805.00001345@mb-m25.aol.com...
> >so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid
>
> Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help
cope
> with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
>
> > last time I check
> >Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> >only make RWD
>
> Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in
Xi
> trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
> Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
> FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV. Infiniti just
introduced an
> AWD version of the G35. Tests have proven that with standard road tires
FWD
> cars behave in a superior manner to RWD cars in many winter conditions.
That
> doesn't mean that people can't make RWD work in ice/snow/rain/etc...but it
> isn't *ideal*.
60% of truck/SUVs are not AWD/4x4. the new DC are just coming iwht AWD and
BMW has dabbled in AWD and only has it on one line of model.
news:20040211003906.21805.00001345@mb-m25.aol.com...
> >so all the people who buy SUVs and trucks are stupid
>
> Trucks and SUVs are usually equipped with some form of AWD/4WD to help
cope
> with ice/snow/rain/etc...conditions.
>
> > last time I check
> >Germany gets snow and ice and there two biggest companies for making cars
> >only make RWD
>
> Actually MB and BMW both make cars with AWD. The 3-series is avaliable in
Xi
> trim (AWD equipped), the C-Class is avaliable with 4Matic AWD, as is the E
> Class and S Class. Audi sells more cars equipped with Quattro than with
> FronTrac, Porsche makes the C4 and the Cayenne SUV. Infiniti just
introduced an
> AWD version of the G35. Tests have proven that with standard road tires
FWD
> cars behave in a superior manner to RWD cars in many winter conditions.
That
> doesn't mean that people can't make RWD work in ice/snow/rain/etc...but it
> isn't *ideal*.
60% of truck/SUVs are not AWD/4x4. the new DC are just coming iwht AWD and
BMW has dabbled in AWD and only has it on one line of model.