Jon B

Dano58 <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jon B said -
>
> > > >> On paper yes, I bet on the road you can beat the manual 9 times out of
> > > >> ten.
> > > >
> > > >How did you come to *that* conclusion?
> > > >
> > > >E.P.
> > >
> > > He can't make the single 1-2 up-shift needed to save his life?
> > >
> > Not my conclusions, and like most UK people, I've owned [1] nothing but
> > manual boxes anyway, so yes I can make the up-shift, and in my mk2 Golf
> > GTi it was 2 upshifts to get to 60
> >
> > But seriously, go and find two identical spec cars bar the gearbox,
> > stick them on a drag strip, now try and beat each other, 10 times in a
> > row. Now even try and get the factory times out of the manual [1], some
> > of the techniques used aren't very friendly on the transmission. The
> > auto will do it everytime and all you've got to do is stick it in drive
> > and plant the throttle, and it will do it time in time out everyday,
> > even when you are not in the mood to get it right.
> >
> > I know the drag strip challenge has been done with two Porsche 928GTSs
> > by a pair in the smaller uk porsche club. The auto did the strip in, and
> > I can't remember the exact time so for the sakes of arguments I'm going
> > to say 11 seconds, and varied 0.3 of a second either side on the 10
> > runs. The manual did it once or twice faster then the auto by about 0.5
> > second, but was often 2-4seconds slower. For the last three runs the
> > manual didn't run at all because the clutch was starting to smoke and
> > smell expensive. The auto just kept going.
>
> That doesn't necessarily prove your point. You're talking about 2
> high-performance cars where dumping the clutch probably would just
> result in a bunch of wheelspin while the auto box would probably
> mitigate that. Besides, you said 'on the street', not on the strip!
>
> In our Audis I'd wager on the stick every time, assuming 2 identical
> cars and equally-skilled drivers. Especially with quattro, where the
> stick wouldn't have the wheelspin problem.
>
Thats backing up what I said, a good driver can be faster when he can be
bothered, and when he gets it right, but the auto will be that fast
everytime. The manual is more satisfying when you get it right, a pain
in the **** in traffic sitting on the clutch. Luckily I live in a
ruralish area so I take the manual, but when we have heavy traffic (or
I've put my back out) I do ponder about the auto.
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.

Jon B

Dano58 <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jon B said -
>
> > > >> On paper yes, I bet on the road you can beat the manual 9 times out of
> > > >> ten.
> > > >
> > > >How did you come to *that* conclusion?
> > > >
> > > >E.P.
> > >
> > > He can't make the single 1-2 up-shift needed to save his life?
> > >
> > Not my conclusions, and like most UK people, I've owned [1] nothing but
> > manual boxes anyway, so yes I can make the up-shift, and in my mk2 Golf
> > GTi it was 2 upshifts to get to 60
> >
> > But seriously, go and find two identical spec cars bar the gearbox,
> > stick them on a drag strip, now try and beat each other, 10 times in a
> > row. Now even try and get the factory times out of the manual [1], some
> > of the techniques used aren't very friendly on the transmission. The
> > auto will do it everytime and all you've got to do is stick it in drive
> > and plant the throttle, and it will do it time in time out everyday,
> > even when you are not in the mood to get it right.
> >
> > I know the drag strip challenge has been done with two Porsche 928GTSs
> > by a pair in the smaller uk porsche club. The auto did the strip in, and
> > I can't remember the exact time so for the sakes of arguments I'm going
> > to say 11 seconds, and varied 0.3 of a second either side on the 10
> > runs. The manual did it once or twice faster then the auto by about 0.5
> > second, but was often 2-4seconds slower. For the last three runs the
> > manual didn't run at all because the clutch was starting to smoke and
> > smell expensive. The auto just kept going.
>
> That doesn't necessarily prove your point. You're talking about 2
> high-performance cars where dumping the clutch probably would just
> result in a bunch of wheelspin while the auto box would probably
> mitigate that. Besides, you said 'on the street', not on the strip!
>
> In our Audis I'd wager on the stick every time, assuming 2 identical
> cars and equally-skilled drivers. Especially with quattro, where the
> stick wouldn't have the wheelspin problem.
>
Thats backing up what I said, a good driver can be faster when he can be
bothered, and when he gets it right, but the auto will be that fast
everytime. The manual is more satisfying when you get it right, a pain
in the **** in traffic sitting on the clutch. Luckily I live in a
ruralish area so I take the manual, but when we have heavy traffic (or
I've put my back out) I do ponder about the auto.
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.

Jon B

Dano58 <dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jon B said -
>
> > > >> On paper yes, I bet on the road you can beat the manual 9 times out of
> > > >> ten.
> > > >
> > > >How did you come to *that* conclusion?
> > > >
> > > >E.P.
> > >
> > > He can't make the single 1-2 up-shift needed to save his life?
> > >
> > Not my conclusions, and like most UK people, I've owned [1] nothing but
> > manual boxes anyway, so yes I can make the up-shift, and in my mk2 Golf
> > GTi it was 2 upshifts to get to 60
> >
> > But seriously, go and find two identical spec cars bar the gearbox,
> > stick them on a drag strip, now try and beat each other, 10 times in a
> > row. Now even try and get the factory times out of the manual [1], some
> > of the techniques used aren't very friendly on the transmission. The
> > auto will do it everytime and all you've got to do is stick it in drive
> > and plant the throttle, and it will do it time in time out everyday,
> > even when you are not in the mood to get it right.
> >
> > I know the drag strip challenge has been done with two Porsche 928GTSs
> > by a pair in the smaller uk porsche club. The auto did the strip in, and
> > I can't remember the exact time so for the sakes of arguments I'm going
> > to say 11 seconds, and varied 0.3 of a second either side on the 10
> > runs. The manual did it once or twice faster then the auto by about 0.5
> > second, but was often 2-4seconds slower. For the last three runs the
> > manual didn't run at all because the clutch was starting to smoke and
> > smell expensive. The auto just kept going.
>
> That doesn't necessarily prove your point. You're talking about 2
> high-performance cars where dumping the clutch probably would just
> result in a bunch of wheelspin while the auto box would probably
> mitigate that. Besides, you said 'on the street', not on the strip!
>
> In our Audis I'd wager on the stick every time, assuming 2 identical
> cars and equally-skilled drivers. Especially with quattro, where the
> stick wouldn't have the wheelspin problem.
>
Thats backing up what I said, a good driver can be faster when he can be
bothered, and when he gets it right, but the auto will be that fast
everytime. The manual is more satisfying when you get it right, a pain
in the **** in traffic sitting on the clutch. Luckily I live in a
ruralish area so I take the manual, but when we have heavy traffic (or
I've put my back out) I do ponder about the auto.
--
Jon B
Above email address IS valid.
<http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs.

Dano58

I didn't say 2 GOOD drivers, just 2 equally-skilled drivers. I imagine
a racer with an automatic could beat me in a stick every time.....!
But taking 2 drivers of the same skill level, I feel like the stick
would win every time.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA

Dano58

I didn't say 2 GOOD drivers, just 2 equally-skilled drivers. I imagine
a racer with an automatic could beat me in a stick every time.....!
But taking 2 drivers of the same skill level, I feel like the stick
would win every time.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA

Dano58

I didn't say 2 GOOD drivers, just 2 equally-skilled drivers. I imagine
a racer with an automatic could beat me in a stick every time.....!
But taking 2 drivers of the same skill level, I feel like the stick
would win every time.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA

Dano58

I didn't say 2 GOOD drivers, just 2 equally-skilled drivers. I imagine
a racer with an automatic could beat me in a stick every time.....!
But taking 2 drivers of the same skill level, I feel like the stick
would win every time.

Dan D
'04 A4 1.8Tq MT-6
Central NJ USA