Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
04-13-2009, 01:19 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
Hi,
My A6 quatro '96 (V6) started Automatic transmission misbehavior. The
car has about 240Kmiles and until recently the AT was rather smooth.
Lately when shifting from second to third gear the RPM goes up to
about 3500+ and then the 3rd gear engages somewhat rapidly causing the
car to jerk.
I brought the car to a "German Car mechanic" to have the fluid checked
and to have the filter replaced. There is more dipstic on the newer
models and I didn't want to do it by myself. I was concerned that the
fluid level might be low. The mechanic changed the AT filter and to
my surprise told me that the fluid level was too high. He refilled the
fluid to proper level after the filter replacement.
I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
serious problem.
I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
transmissions on these Audi models.
Thank you,
Andre
My A6 quatro '96 (V6) started Automatic transmission misbehavior. The
car has about 240Kmiles and until recently the AT was rather smooth.
Lately when shifting from second to third gear the RPM goes up to
about 3500+ and then the 3rd gear engages somewhat rapidly causing the
car to jerk.
I brought the car to a "German Car mechanic" to have the fluid checked
and to have the filter replaced. There is more dipstic on the newer
models and I didn't want to do it by myself. I was concerned that the
fluid level might be low. The mechanic changed the AT filter and to
my surprise told me that the fluid level was too high. He refilled the
fluid to proper level after the filter replacement.
I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
serious problem.
I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
transmissions on these Audi models.
Thank you,
Andre
04-16-2009, 09:43 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
The 2.8L engine with 4-speed front wheel drive? That's the ZF 4HP18
transmission. I would say lucky for you to get a premium ZF
transmission in there. Now there are cheap Aisin transmissions in
Audis. But the cheaper VW are even getting Jatco transmissions!
If the transmission needs to last the ATF and filter needs to be
changed periodically, even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend it.
Most places, however, can't seem to do this correctly -- as far as
fluid type and level. Sounds like whoever serviced it last did a poor
job. Tell us who!
Even if the fluid is regularly changed, the clutch pack material will
eventually wear as in brake pads. Sounds like this may be the case as
you are slipping going into 3rd. The pressure rise may be marginal now
to engage the clutch pack/brake bands for that gear.
So I think another ATF change or two in close intervals may help flush
out the transmission. Perhaps consider a "High Mileage"ATF suitable
for that transmission. A machine power flush is not recommended
because it can send debris into valve bodies and other close-tolerance
areas. Improved shift is probably all you can get now.
For example, *if* the transmission uses Dexron II/III, then consider
Valvoline or Castrol High Mileage ATF:
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7033928
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
If high milage ATF doesn't work, then maybe sell it or drive it until
it permanently slips?
On Apr 13, 11:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My A6 quatro '96 (V6) started Automatic transmission misbehavior. The
> car has about 240Kmiles and until recently the AT was rather smooth.
> Lately when shifting from second to third gear the RPM goes up to
> about 3500+ and then the 3rd gear engages somewhat rapidly causing the
> car to jerk.
> I brought the car to a "German Car mechanic" to have the fluid checked
> and to have the filter replaced. There is more dipstic on the newer
> models and I didn't want to do it by myself. I was concerned that the
> fluid level might be low. The mechanic changed the AT filter and to
> my surprise told me that the fluid level was too high. He refilled the
> fluid to proper level after the filter replacement.
> I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
> two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
> not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
> serious problem.
> I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
> transmissions on these Audi models.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andre
transmission. I would say lucky for you to get a premium ZF
transmission in there. Now there are cheap Aisin transmissions in
Audis. But the cheaper VW are even getting Jatco transmissions!
If the transmission needs to last the ATF and filter needs to be
changed periodically, even if the manufacturer doesn't recommend it.
Most places, however, can't seem to do this correctly -- as far as
fluid type and level. Sounds like whoever serviced it last did a poor
job. Tell us who!
Even if the fluid is regularly changed, the clutch pack material will
eventually wear as in brake pads. Sounds like this may be the case as
you are slipping going into 3rd. The pressure rise may be marginal now
to engage the clutch pack/brake bands for that gear.
So I think another ATF change or two in close intervals may help flush
out the transmission. Perhaps consider a "High Mileage"ATF suitable
for that transmission. A machine power flush is not recommended
because it can send debris into valve bodies and other close-tolerance
areas. Improved shift is probably all you can get now.
For example, *if* the transmission uses Dexron II/III, then consider
Valvoline or Castrol High Mileage ATF:
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/secti...tentId=7033928
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=6
If high milage ATF doesn't work, then maybe sell it or drive it until
it permanently slips?
On Apr 13, 11:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> My A6 quatro '96 (V6) started Automatic transmission misbehavior. The
> car has about 240Kmiles and until recently the AT was rather smooth.
> Lately when shifting from second to third gear the RPM goes up to
> about 3500+ and then the 3rd gear engages somewhat rapidly causing the
> car to jerk.
> I brought the car to a "German Car mechanic" to have the fluid checked
> and to have the filter replaced. There is more dipstic on the newer
> models and I didn't want to do it by myself. I was concerned that the
> fluid level might be low. The mechanic changed the AT filter and to
> my surprise told me that the fluid level was too high. He refilled the
> fluid to proper level after the filter replacement.
> I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
> two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
> not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
> serious problem.
> I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
> transmissions on these Audi models.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andre
04-16-2009, 09:49 PM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
That said, if you really want to keep the car, consider dropping in a
ZF SecondLife rebuilt transmission. Not just a cheap rebuilt from the
lowest bidder.
You can locate such a original factory (ZF) rebuild from www.transtarindustries.com,
an authorized parts dealer with international locations. And if in the
US, find a shop belonging to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders
Association, www.atra.com. If you're across the pond, then I'm sure
there are similar shops.
On Apr 13, 11:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
> two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
> not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
> serious problem.
> I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
> transmissions on these Audi models.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andre
ZF SecondLife rebuilt transmission. Not just a cheap rebuilt from the
lowest bidder.
You can locate such a original factory (ZF) rebuild from www.transtarindustries.com,
an authorized parts dealer with international locations. And if in the
US, find a shop belonging to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders
Association, www.atra.com. If you're across the pond, then I'm sure
there are similar shops.
On Apr 13, 11:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I thought that initialy the car behaved a bit better but after one or
> two more days I see that the problem hasn't really gone away. It's
> not too bad yet but I am concerned that it's the beginning of a more
> serious problem.
> I'd appreciate any comments about your experiances with Automatic
> transmissions on these Audi models.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andre
04-17-2009, 11:19 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
John,
Thank you for taking the time to provide me with a lot of helpful
information. I live in Connecticut. I would like to keep the car on
the road for a while, it is a great car despite some dissapointing
problems. For now the slip only occurs during gear shift and it only
affects 3rd gear. It's a shame the procedure for filling up the ATF
is not quite doable without a lift ie the ability to lift the car and
keep it horizontal. But I have a local mechanic whom I trust with my
cars even though he is not the "German Car Mechanic".
I have bought the car used about 3 years ago and the overfilling
happened before my ownership so I don't know who the guilty party is.
Your comment has referred to a front wheel drive car, my car as I've
indicated before is a quarto.
This same car also has an annoying oil leak problem which drips over
the exhaust causing a bad smell for a few minutes each time after the
car has been stopped.
The German Car mechanic who changed the ATF and discovered the
incorrect ATF level, has also confirmed a prevoius diagnosis by a
dealer that the oil leak is a head gasket problem. Which is very
unfortunate.
Thank you again for your help.
Andre
Thank you for taking the time to provide me with a lot of helpful
information. I live in Connecticut. I would like to keep the car on
the road for a while, it is a great car despite some dissapointing
problems. For now the slip only occurs during gear shift and it only
affects 3rd gear. It's a shame the procedure for filling up the ATF
is not quite doable without a lift ie the ability to lift the car and
keep it horizontal. But I have a local mechanic whom I trust with my
cars even though he is not the "German Car Mechanic".
I have bought the car used about 3 years ago and the overfilling
happened before my ownership so I don't know who the guilty party is.
Your comment has referred to a front wheel drive car, my car as I've
indicated before is a quarto.
This same car also has an annoying oil leak problem which drips over
the exhaust causing a bad smell for a few minutes each time after the
car has been stopped.
The German Car mechanic who changed the ATF and discovered the
incorrect ATF level, has also confirmed a prevoius diagnosis by a
dealer that the oil leak is a head gasket problem. Which is very
unfortunate.
Thank you again for your help.
Andre
04-17-2009, 08:39 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
Right -- the list I have must be out of date, didn't show AWD. Sounds
like the previous owner could have taken better care -- tranmission
slips and head gasket problem.
However, the C4 chassis still lists only one automatic transmission,
so I can only guess it's still the ZF 4HP18. And if so, ZF lists
Dexron III as the proper lubricant. In that case, I'd use High Mileage
ATF mentioned to see how it may improve the situation. These fluids
have more friction modifiers, detergents, and other ingredients for
older transmissions.
ZF oil reference guide (the ZF.com one takes a long time):
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/...ence_Guide.pdf
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/i..._PC_102307.pdf
On Apr 17, 9:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> John,
> Thank you for taking the time to provide me with a lot of helpful
> information. I live in Connecticut. I would like to keep the car on
> the road for a while, it is a great car despite some dissapointing
> problems. For now the slip only occurs during gear shift and it only
> affects 3rd gear. It's a shame the procedure for filling up the ATF
> is not quite doable without a lift ie the ability to lift the car and
> keep it horizontal. But I have a local mechanic whom I trust with my
> cars even though he is not the "German Car Mechanic".
> I have bought the car used about 3 years ago and the overfilling
> happened before my ownership so I don't know who the guilty party is.
> Your comment has referred to a front wheel drive car, my car as I've
> indicated before is a quarto.
>
> This same car also has an annoying oil leak problem which drips over
> the exhaust causing a bad smell for a few minutes each time after the
> car has been stopped.
> The German Car mechanic who changed the ATF and discovered the
> incorrect ATF level, has also confirmed a prevoius diagnosis by a
> dealer that the oil leak is a head gasket problem. Which is very
> unfortunate.
>
> Thank you again for your help.
> Andre
like the previous owner could have taken better care -- tranmission
slips and head gasket problem.
However, the C4 chassis still lists only one automatic transmission,
so I can only guess it's still the ZF 4HP18. And if so, ZF lists
Dexron III as the proper lubricant. In that case, I'd use High Mileage
ATF mentioned to see how it may improve the situation. These fluids
have more friction modifiers, detergents, and other ingredients for
older transmissions.
ZF oil reference guide (the ZF.com one takes a long time):
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/...ence_Guide.pdf
http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/i..._PC_102307.pdf
On Apr 17, 9:19 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> John,
> Thank you for taking the time to provide me with a lot of helpful
> information. I live in Connecticut. I would like to keep the car on
> the road for a while, it is a great car despite some dissapointing
> problems. For now the slip only occurs during gear shift and it only
> affects 3rd gear. It's a shame the procedure for filling up the ATF
> is not quite doable without a lift ie the ability to lift the car and
> keep it horizontal. But I have a local mechanic whom I trust with my
> cars even though he is not the "German Car Mechanic".
> I have bought the car used about 3 years ago and the overfilling
> happened before my ownership so I don't know who the guilty party is.
> Your comment has referred to a front wheel drive car, my car as I've
> indicated before is a quarto.
>
> This same car also has an annoying oil leak problem which drips over
> the exhaust causing a bad smell for a few minutes each time after the
> car has been stopped.
> The German Car mechanic who changed the ATF and discovered the
> incorrect ATF level, has also confirmed a prevoius diagnosis by a
> dealer that the oil leak is a head gasket problem. Which is very
> unfortunate.
>
> Thank you again for your help.
> Andre
04-24-2009, 11:54 AM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
Thank you John.
I crawled under the car the other day and confirmed that the
transmission type is ZF 4HP18.
I wanted to look underneath the car to see If I can spot any reason
why I hear a rattling sound when the car is first warming up. Didn't
see anything of concern. Unfortunately the noise seemed to be coming
from engine/AT body. The noise goes away when engine warms up a bit.
I did notice however that the last two (out of 4) plastic "quick lock
nuts" on the noise shield plastic cover under the engine have been
broken off.
A technician in the "German Car Specialist" shop should know how to
take the cover off an Audi without braking off any of the mounting
clips. I get frustrated with this kind of stuff. Are there any
mechanics left, who can take things apart and put them back together
without leaving anything off or braking anything off.
Maybe I am just too "fussy" for the times we live in...
I have been driving the car to work lately and I've observed that the
problem with the transmission can be described this way. In case of
all the gears except the 4th (highest) gear the clucth seems to
release prematurely at RPM = ~1500. RPM rises quickly and the gear up-
shifts. But now the higher gear is engaged prematurely at about
1000RPM and the car has very difficult time accelerating. Once in 4th
gear, the car runs great, engine has a lot of power.
Thanks,
Andre
I crawled under the car the other day and confirmed that the
transmission type is ZF 4HP18.
I wanted to look underneath the car to see If I can spot any reason
why I hear a rattling sound when the car is first warming up. Didn't
see anything of concern. Unfortunately the noise seemed to be coming
from engine/AT body. The noise goes away when engine warms up a bit.
I did notice however that the last two (out of 4) plastic "quick lock
nuts" on the noise shield plastic cover under the engine have been
broken off.
A technician in the "German Car Specialist" shop should know how to
take the cover off an Audi without braking off any of the mounting
clips. I get frustrated with this kind of stuff. Are there any
mechanics left, who can take things apart and put them back together
without leaving anything off or braking anything off.
Maybe I am just too "fussy" for the times we live in...
I have been driving the car to work lately and I've observed that the
problem with the transmission can be described this way. In case of
all the gears except the 4th (highest) gear the clucth seems to
release prematurely at RPM = ~1500. RPM rises quickly and the gear up-
shifts. But now the higher gear is engaged prematurely at about
1000RPM and the car has very difficult time accelerating. Once in 4th
gear, the car runs great, engine has a lot of power.
Thanks,
Andre
04-24-2009, 10:39 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A6 quattro 95 AT.
I'd prefer the ZF over the Aisin VW is putting into the Audis these
days. Anyway, a good mechanic is always hard to find, even at the
dealer.
As far as the cold-start noise goes, it's hard to tell what it is
without listening to it. But typically lube or parts clearance related
issues. More likely in the engine than transmission. If a thicker oil
(for example, High Mileage oils) in the approved viscosity range then
you know where it's located.
It's a surprise that the high ATF level you mentioned, because
slippage is usually caused by low ATF level, among other things:
1. Low ATF level. Especially in the new 6HP series LePelletier
designs, most mechanics can't get this right and tend to leave ATF
fluid level too low.
2. Low or sluggish line pressure rise. Worn tranmission valve body/oil
seals. (-> governor seal)
3. Plugged filter.
4. Improper transmission linkage adjustment
Just my 2 cents.
The following are from Alfa groups using 4HP18 series:
If the $4 Accumulator A spring for 4HP18 series mentioned in the Alfa
club is of relevance:
http://www.alfafaq.com/id16.html
Who knows, maybe Nat Wentworth at Erickson Industries, if still there,
may be able to help?
Another one:
From: Bill Jones
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:27:46 +1030
Subject: Model 164 ZF auto transmission woes - simple fix!
Symptom
Changes up early and haphazardly
Sometimes changes down again almost immediately
Sometimes a delay to go into reverse
Some slight surging when driving in 3rd gear
NOTE:- drives perfectly in manual mode!
Solution
After discussing the problem with a good auto transmission company, it
appeared likely that either the valve control assembly OR the governor
assembly would be the likely cause. They decided to look at the
governor first and on disassembly (which can be done easily without
removing the transmission from the car), found a broken sealing ring.
These rings (two of them) are a split cast iron ring, very similar to
a
piston ring. New parts were ordered from ZF in Sydney and the box
reassembled and tested. The car now drives PERFECTLY and is a
pleasure
to drive once again. It seems that insufficient oil pressure caused
by
the broken sealing ring caused the symptoms described above.
ZF part numbers are:-
Gear cover gasket ZF 0750-112-156
Ring sealing ZF 0501-306-310
Screw - 4HP14 ZF 1036-309-269
Total cost for this job was A$356.70 so for those 164 owners out there
who are having similar problems, don't fall for the trap of having a
change-over transmission fitted for somewhere around $5,000.
On Apr 24, 9:54 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thank you John.
> I crawled under the car the other day and confirmed that the
> transmission type is ZF 4HP18.
> I wanted to look underneath the car to see If I can spot any reason
> why I hear a rattling sound when the car is first warming up. Didn't
> see anything of concern. Unfortunately the noise seemed to be coming
> from engine/AT body. The noise goes away when engine warms up a bit.
> I did notice however that the last two (out of 4) plastic "quick lock
> nuts" on the noise shield plastic cover under the engine have been
> broken off.
> A technician in the "German Car Specialist" shop should know how to
> take the cover off an Audi without braking off any of the mounting
> clips. I get frustrated with this kind of stuff. Are there any
> mechanics left, who can take things apart and put them back together
> without leaving anything off or braking anything off.
> Maybe I am just too "fussy" for the times we live in...
>
> I have been driving the car to work lately and I've observed that the
> problem with the transmission can be described this way. In case of
> all the gears except the 4th (highest) gear the clucth seems to
> release prematurely at RPM = ~1500. RPM rises quickly and the gear up-
> shifts. But now the higher gear is engaged prematurely at about
> 1000RPM and the car has very difficult time accelerating. Once in 4th
> gear, the car runs great, engine has a lot of power.
>
> Thanks,
> Andre
days. Anyway, a good mechanic is always hard to find, even at the
dealer.
As far as the cold-start noise goes, it's hard to tell what it is
without listening to it. But typically lube or parts clearance related
issues. More likely in the engine than transmission. If a thicker oil
(for example, High Mileage oils) in the approved viscosity range then
you know where it's located.
It's a surprise that the high ATF level you mentioned, because
slippage is usually caused by low ATF level, among other things:
1. Low ATF level. Especially in the new 6HP series LePelletier
designs, most mechanics can't get this right and tend to leave ATF
fluid level too low.
2. Low or sluggish line pressure rise. Worn tranmission valve body/oil
seals. (-> governor seal)
3. Plugged filter.
4. Improper transmission linkage adjustment
Just my 2 cents.
The following are from Alfa groups using 4HP18 series:
If the $4 Accumulator A spring for 4HP18 series mentioned in the Alfa
club is of relevance:
http://www.alfafaq.com/id16.html
Who knows, maybe Nat Wentworth at Erickson Industries, if still there,
may be able to help?
Another one:
From: Bill Jones
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 05:27:46 +1030
Subject: Model 164 ZF auto transmission woes - simple fix!
Symptom
Changes up early and haphazardly
Sometimes changes down again almost immediately
Sometimes a delay to go into reverse
Some slight surging when driving in 3rd gear
NOTE:- drives perfectly in manual mode!
Solution
After discussing the problem with a good auto transmission company, it
appeared likely that either the valve control assembly OR the governor
assembly would be the likely cause. They decided to look at the
governor first and on disassembly (which can be done easily without
removing the transmission from the car), found a broken sealing ring.
These rings (two of them) are a split cast iron ring, very similar to
a
piston ring. New parts were ordered from ZF in Sydney and the box
reassembled and tested. The car now drives PERFECTLY and is a
pleasure
to drive once again. It seems that insufficient oil pressure caused
by
the broken sealing ring caused the symptoms described above.
ZF part numbers are:-
Gear cover gasket ZF 0750-112-156
Ring sealing ZF 0501-306-310
Screw - 4HP14 ZF 1036-309-269
Total cost for this job was A$356.70 so for those 164 owners out there
who are having similar problems, don't fall for the trap of having a
change-over transmission fitted for somewhere around $5,000.
On Apr 24, 9:54 am, andre...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thank you John.
> I crawled under the car the other day and confirmed that the
> transmission type is ZF 4HP18.
> I wanted to look underneath the car to see If I can spot any reason
> why I hear a rattling sound when the car is first warming up. Didn't
> see anything of concern. Unfortunately the noise seemed to be coming
> from engine/AT body. The noise goes away when engine warms up a bit.
> I did notice however that the last two (out of 4) plastic "quick lock
> nuts" on the noise shield plastic cover under the engine have been
> broken off.
> A technician in the "German Car Specialist" shop should know how to
> take the cover off an Audi without braking off any of the mounting
> clips. I get frustrated with this kind of stuff. Are there any
> mechanics left, who can take things apart and put them back together
> without leaving anything off or braking anything off.
> Maybe I am just too "fussy" for the times we live in...
>
> I have been driving the car to work lately and I've observed that the
> problem with the transmission can be described this way. In case of
> all the gears except the 4th (highest) gear the clucth seems to
> release prematurely at RPM = ~1500. RPM rises quickly and the gear up-
> shifts. But now the higher gear is engaged prematurely at about
> 1000RPM and the car has very difficult time accelerating. Once in 4th
> gear, the car runs great, engine has a lot of power.
>
> Thanks,
> Andre
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