Audi A4 timing belt
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> >General recomendation - buy parts on your own on the internet and have
your
> >mechanic install them. That should save you about half of your parts
cost.
>
> Not to mention **** your mechanic off.
>
> I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying make sure that you trust
> your mechanic before you start trying to steal his markup.
>
I did not have any problems getting 2 quotes from half a dozen of
mechanics - one quote just for labor and another one for parts and labor.
They were absolutely fine with installing parts I provided. This will not
work with dealers though. Chances are they will refuse to install customer's
parts.
The real downside of this approach is that if there is a problem with the
car later on, the mechanic will blame it on parts and the manufacturer will
blame it on the mechanic. So I guess it's a matter of preference, but it
sure worked for me (the dealer and independent mechanic both quoted $500 in
parts, I paid $240 including shipping for those same brand new EOM parts on
the internet).
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:48:14 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>They were absolutely fine with installing parts I provided.
><snip>
> it sure worked for me (the dealer and independent mechanic both quoted $500 in
>parts, I paid $240 including shipping for those same brand new EOM parts on
>the internet).
Exactly.
Your shop made at least $260 less that day than it would have if you
had purchased the parts through them. Some shops get annoyed by
that. Other shops simply don't want to deal with strange parts from
unknown sources.
If it didn't bother any of the mechanics that you spoke with, great.
>They were absolutely fine with installing parts I provided.
><snip>
> it sure worked for me (the dealer and independent mechanic both quoted $500 in
>parts, I paid $240 including shipping for those same brand new EOM parts on
>the internet).
Exactly.
Your shop made at least $260 less that day than it would have if you
had purchased the parts through them. Some shops get annoyed by
that. Other shops simply don't want to deal with strange parts from
unknown sources.
If it didn't bother any of the mechanics that you spoke with, great.
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
"Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net. au...
> There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text
of
> the Audi service bulletin for Australia.
> Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump......
>
> "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote:
> > >
> > >"Audi A4 owner" <huan@atelo.com> wrote in message
> > >news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00@posting.google. com...
> > >> I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it
> > >> in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water
> > >> pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests
> > >> replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's
manual
> > >> says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me
> > >> off?
> > >
> > >I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000
km's
> or
> > >4 years whichever comes first!
> > >My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water
> pump
> > >done in the next few months.....
> >
> > Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or
> > "kilometers"?
> >
> > My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles),
> > applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT...
After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions.
One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And
more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on
this and neglected to correct their error.
Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer
recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000
kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the
people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either
mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't
realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either
way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America
certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so
that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a
bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature).
Rob
2002 A4 3.0Q
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:03:41 GMT, "+ Rob +" <frankrNo@Spammindspring.com>
wrote:
>
>"Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net .au...
>> There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text
>of
>> the Audi service bulletin for Australia.
>> Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump......
>>
>> "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >"Audi A4 owner" <huan@atelo.com> wrote in message
>> > >news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00@posting.google. com...
>> > >> I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it
>> > >> in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water
>> > >> pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests
>> > >> replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's
>manual
>> > >> says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me
>> > >> off?
>> > >
>> > >I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000
>km's
>> or
>> > >4 years whichever comes first!
>> > >My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water
>> pump
>> > >done in the next few months.....
>> >
>> > Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or
>> > "kilometers"?
>> >
>> > My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles),
>> > applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT...
>
> After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions.
>One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And
>more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on
>this and neglected to correct their error.
> Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer
>recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000
>kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the
>people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either
>mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't
>realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either
>way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America
>certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so
>that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a
>bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature).
>
>Rob
>2002 A4 3.0Q
As every v6 I've ever owned had belt-driven camshafts, and they all had
recommended replacement at 60000 miles, I'm inclined to agree with your take
that someone transcribed the recommendation incorrectly.
Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this hunt right now. At just over 30000
miles and still under the fix-all factory warranty, Audi service noticed the
pump had a tiny leak (so small it never made a puddle), so they replaced the
water pump, belt tensioner and idlers, and serpentine and cam belts, all on
their dime.
Felt like I had hit the lottery...
/daytripper
'00 s4 6spd, good for at least another 30K; -)
wrote:
>
>"Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3f446b3f$0$23606$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net .au...
>> There is only one meaning of km's i.e. kilometres, and that was the text
>of
>> the Audi service bulletin for Australia.
>> Mine will cost about $AUS1000 including water pump......
>>
>> "daytripper" <day_trippr@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:fja8kvs0pf96j89jrn015ok4sm97d5ao2n@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:54:22 +0800, "Bear" <who@where.net.au> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >"Audi A4 owner" <huan@atelo.com> wrote in message
>> > >news:983664e2.0308201056.5484cc00@posting.google. com...
>> > >> I own a 1998 A4 Quattro that has ~83,000 miles on it. I'm bringing it
>> > >> in for service and the mechanic says that the timing belt and water
>> > >> pump should be replaced. He says that the belt manufacturer suggests
>> > >> replacing the belt at 60,000 miles even though the Audi owner's
>manual
>> > >> says 90,000 miles. Is this true or is the mechanic trying to rip me
>> > >> off?
>> > >
>> > >I have the latest bulletin in front of me dated 5th June '01, 90,000
>km's
>> or
>> > >4 years whichever comes first!
>> > >My A4, '97 model only 47,000 km's, I'm going to have it and the water
>> pump
>> > >done in the next few months.....
>> >
>> > Are you using "km's" to (improperly) mean "thousands of miles" - or
>> > "kilometers"?
>> >
>> > My A4/S4 specs say first belt change is at 144,000 km (90,000 miles),
>> > applicable to the 1.8T, 2.8NA, and 2.7TT...
>
> After reading the entirety of this thread, I've come to two conclusions.
>One: The timing belt, etc. should be changed at ~60,000mi /~90,000km. And
>more importantly, two: that someone at Audi seriously dropped the ball on
>this and neglected to correct their error.
> Because it strikes me as extremely odd, at best, that the manufacturer
>recommendation for timing belt replacement is *both* 90,000 miles AND 90,000
>kilometers (depending on location). Thus, it sounds very much like the
>people in charge of writing the imperial (mile) intervals were either
>mathematically brain dead or simply heard someone say "90,000" and didn't
>realize that this number referred to kilometers rather than miles. Either
>way, if all of the tales of "early" failures are true, Audi of America
>certainly needs to hear about it in some sort of large, organized fashion so
>that it can be corrected. (no, I'm not talking about a lawsuit...just a
>bunch of letters from "concerned owners" or something of that nature).
>
>Rob
>2002 A4 3.0Q
As every v6 I've ever owned had belt-driven camshafts, and they all had
recommended replacement at 60000 miles, I'm inclined to agree with your take
that someone transcribed the recommendation incorrectly.
Fortunately, I don't have a dog in this hunt right now. At just over 30000
miles and still under the fix-all factory warranty, Audi service noticed the
pump had a tiny leak (so small it never made a puddle), so they replaced the
water pump, belt tensioner and idlers, and serpentine and cam belts, all on
their dime.
Felt like I had hit the lottery...
/daytripper
'00 s4 6spd, good for at least another 30K; -)
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> As far as bringing your mechanic your own parts goes, if your
> mechanic goes for it, fine; It doesn't work here. Bring me your
> parts, they'll leave with you and your car. There isn't enough profit
> in this business as it is, let alone when cheapskates show up with
> their own parts.
May I remind you that you are a mechanic, not an auto parts store. You make
a living by selling your labor, not parts. Isn't that what you tell your
customers anyway? If there is not enough money for you in this business -
raise your hourly rate. But you won't do that, cause you'll lose the few
customers you still have. Instead you are running a little scam on the side,
double/tripple charging parts to your ignorant customers. And just because
everybody does it does not make it right. And if you do believe it's right,
tell your customer tomorrow - "I am going to charge you $170 for WP. It's a
list price. You can get exactly the same WP on the internet for $70, I pay
$70 for it but I'll charge you $170, cause there is not enough money in this
business". Tell this to your customer, see what happens.
>Bring me your parts, they'll leave with you and your car...
Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop across
the street and they are as good as you are, likely better. You do not do
nobody no stinking favor, do you understand that at least? If I come to your
shop to get my car fixed - I am hiring you and I am willing to pay the rate
you charge for your labor. It is your right not to want to be hired on my
terms, but please remember, you are not doing anybody any favors, shops like
yours are a dime a dozen, and with this kind of attitude no wonder there is
not enough money for you in the business.
> The parts are either wrong, not all of them are supplied, or of
> questionable quality. It is impossible to run a business with
> customers supplying their own parts. It is also impossible to stand
> behind a job when you bring your own parts. I have to around for
> a day while I get in the rest of the parts, and the right parts, it
> costs me time and money EVERY TIME. I have way too much work to get
> done to spend tiem holding the hand of some moron who wants to do my
> job.
I am sure it does happen occasionally, customers do come with parts that are
wrong, missing and/or questionable quality. And you are absolutely
justified to charge the customer for the time it took you to figure it all
out, order it and fix all the mess. But I am sure that in majority of cases
people intelligent enough to know that they can get their own parts also
know what parts they need, where to order them how much they cost and other
details.
And you know what, you yourself know what parts they need. Why don't you
tell your customers what parts they should get. It'd take you 5 minutes to
write down the part numbers and I am sure your customers would be happy to
pay for your time and be delighted with your approach. I mean you called me
a cheapstake so you've got to be Mr. Generosity, right? Why don't you do it
to your customers, after all my mechanic did it for me. But calling me a
cheapstake I do not think you would move your finger for free. How much do
you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
> Then, there's the responsibility issue. Lets say the belt falls off
> in 6 months, who gives a why. Where does the fault lie? A part
> can certainly be blamed. If I supply it, it's my baby. For the few
> bucks you save, wouldn't you rather have a warranty and piece of mind?
Generally speaking I agree with you regarding the responsibility issue and
this is a trade off one takes. If it's a couple of bucks as you say, you
might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference. Quite
an expensive warranty, isn't it?
I'd also be hard-pressed to find a mechanic standing behind his work half a
year down the road (unless it's a dealership). I may be wrong but 1-3 months
and/or 500-1000 miles is pretty much tops. Never mind the fact, that if
there is a problem, 99.9% of mechanics (and people in any other business)
will try their best to weasel out of their responsibilities and blame it on
other parts, the customer or whatever they can come up with.
> mechanic goes for it, fine; It doesn't work here. Bring me your
> parts, they'll leave with you and your car. There isn't enough profit
> in this business as it is, let alone when cheapskates show up with
> their own parts.
May I remind you that you are a mechanic, not an auto parts store. You make
a living by selling your labor, not parts. Isn't that what you tell your
customers anyway? If there is not enough money for you in this business -
raise your hourly rate. But you won't do that, cause you'll lose the few
customers you still have. Instead you are running a little scam on the side,
double/tripple charging parts to your ignorant customers. And just because
everybody does it does not make it right. And if you do believe it's right,
tell your customer tomorrow - "I am going to charge you $170 for WP. It's a
list price. You can get exactly the same WP on the internet for $70, I pay
$70 for it but I'll charge you $170, cause there is not enough money in this
business". Tell this to your customer, see what happens.
>Bring me your parts, they'll leave with you and your car...
Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop across
the street and they are as good as you are, likely better. You do not do
nobody no stinking favor, do you understand that at least? If I come to your
shop to get my car fixed - I am hiring you and I am willing to pay the rate
you charge for your labor. It is your right not to want to be hired on my
terms, but please remember, you are not doing anybody any favors, shops like
yours are a dime a dozen, and with this kind of attitude no wonder there is
not enough money for you in the business.
> The parts are either wrong, not all of them are supplied, or of
> questionable quality. It is impossible to run a business with
> customers supplying their own parts. It is also impossible to stand
> behind a job when you bring your own parts. I have to around for
> a day while I get in the rest of the parts, and the right parts, it
> costs me time and money EVERY TIME. I have way too much work to get
> done to spend tiem holding the hand of some moron who wants to do my
> job.
I am sure it does happen occasionally, customers do come with parts that are
wrong, missing and/or questionable quality. And you are absolutely
justified to charge the customer for the time it took you to figure it all
out, order it and fix all the mess. But I am sure that in majority of cases
people intelligent enough to know that they can get their own parts also
know what parts they need, where to order them how much they cost and other
details.
And you know what, you yourself know what parts they need. Why don't you
tell your customers what parts they should get. It'd take you 5 minutes to
write down the part numbers and I am sure your customers would be happy to
pay for your time and be delighted with your approach. I mean you called me
a cheapstake so you've got to be Mr. Generosity, right? Why don't you do it
to your customers, after all my mechanic did it for me. But calling me a
cheapstake I do not think you would move your finger for free. How much do
you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
> Then, there's the responsibility issue. Lets say the belt falls off
> in 6 months, who gives a why. Where does the fault lie? A part
> can certainly be blamed. If I supply it, it's my baby. For the few
> bucks you save, wouldn't you rather have a warranty and piece of mind?
Generally speaking I agree with you regarding the responsibility issue and
this is a trade off one takes. If it's a couple of bucks as you say, you
might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference. Quite
an expensive warranty, isn't it?
I'd also be hard-pressed to find a mechanic standing behind his work half a
year down the road (unless it's a dealership). I may be wrong but 1-3 months
and/or 500-1000 miles is pretty much tops. Never mind the fact, that if
there is a problem, 99.9% of mechanics (and people in any other business)
will try their best to weasel out of their responsibilities and blame it on
other parts, the customer or whatever they can come up with.
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
> Or, find a related business, and make extra money by doing that in
> addition to being a mechanic."
Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a parts
dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a lot
of hard work involved of course . Is it illegal? Not really, but the
fact that not only do they not advertise this activity as does every
reputable business, but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
does not realize that he gets double charged on parts - this alone betrays
shady side of the transaction.
> His ignorant customers don't need a white knight. All of the
> information they need to become less ignorant is available to them.
> Besides, who knows if this is actually ignorance. Maybe they just
> don't care.
Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that? Go
tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for yourself if
they do not care.
> Hm, a voluntary business transaction between two consenting adults. I
> don't really think that needs anything to make it "right".
For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between consenting
adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation with
parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better off
with getting their own parts.
>
> >Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop
across
> >the street
> Well, go there then. Really. No one cares.
Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
> > and they are as good as you are, likely better.
> Illogical.
> Two mechanics: one is busy, one is idle.
I did not say that. One wants to rip you off on parts, the other is quite
happy to charge his hourly labor rate, I think it's a better distinsion
between them.
> By using customer-supplied parts, the busy mechanic actually profits
> less for a given time period. If he wasn't working with the
> customer-supplied parts, he'd be working on someone else's car,
> getting a margin on the parts.
Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills for
his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic to
all or any of this?
> >How much do
> >you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
> > He probably charges what the market will bear. That's how business
> works.
Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90. That may well be
justified from the business point of view, this is indeed how the business
works. I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective, my original post
was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts and not let the
business take advantage of him. Likewise it makes sense to buy your own
vag-com adapter for $70 and read/reset the codes for free.
>
> I could be way off base here, though. I mean, he really could be
> kidnapping people and their cars, dragging them away to his secret
> mountain lair, and refusing to release them until they've paid to have
> their ECU reset.
Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed. So if there is no violence,
than it's fine, right? This would justify any scam, any fraud, let alone
"immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal activity. You seem to be
quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
> >might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference.
> Actually, right up there, you were talking about a $100 difference.
WP $70 vs $170
TB $40 vs $80
TB Pulley $40 Vs $100
TB Roller $30 vs $60
Serp Belt - do not remember
Thermostat - do not remember, but saved about $20 i think
The numbers are aproximate, some may be totally wrong but you got the idea.
> >Quite an expensive warranty, isn't it?
> That depends on whether or not it's cheaper than having him replace it in
six months.
No it does not. Warranty price is supposed to be a small fraction of the
merchandise price, not 30-60% of it, more like 5-10%. At any rate as I said
before I've not seen repair warranties lasting for 6+months (other then from
dealerships).
> addition to being a mechanic."
Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a parts
dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a lot
of hard work involved of course . Is it illegal? Not really, but the
fact that not only do they not advertise this activity as does every
reputable business, but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
does not realize that he gets double charged on parts - this alone betrays
shady side of the transaction.
> His ignorant customers don't need a white knight. All of the
> information they need to become less ignorant is available to them.
> Besides, who knows if this is actually ignorance. Maybe they just
> don't care.
Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that? Go
tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for yourself if
they do not care.
> Hm, a voluntary business transaction between two consenting adults. I
> don't really think that needs anything to make it "right".
For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between consenting
adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation with
parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better off
with getting their own parts.
>
> >Talk about attitude problems. Who gives a damn. There is another shop
across
> >the street
> Well, go there then. Really. No one cares.
Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
> > and they are as good as you are, likely better.
> Illogical.
> Two mechanics: one is busy, one is idle.
I did not say that. One wants to rip you off on parts, the other is quite
happy to charge his hourly labor rate, I think it's a better distinsion
between them.
> By using customer-supplied parts, the busy mechanic actually profits
> less for a given time period. If he wasn't working with the
> customer-supplied parts, he'd be working on someone else's car,
> getting a margin on the parts.
Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills for
his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic to
all or any of this?
> >How much do
> >you charge to reset an error code with vag-com, $50 or $90?
> > He probably charges what the market will bear. That's how business
> works.
Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90. That may well be
justified from the business point of view, this is indeed how the business
works. I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective, my original post
was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts and not let the
business take advantage of him. Likewise it makes sense to buy your own
vag-com adapter for $70 and read/reset the codes for free.
>
> I could be way off base here, though. I mean, he really could be
> kidnapping people and their cars, dragging them away to his secret
> mountain lair, and refusing to release them until they've paid to have
> their ECU reset.
Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed. So if there is no violence,
than it's fine, right? This would justify any scam, any fraud, let alone
"immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal activity. You seem to be
quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
> >might as well pay them, but I was talking about $200-300 difference.
> Actually, right up there, you were talking about a $100 difference.
WP $70 vs $170
TB $40 vs $80
TB Pulley $40 Vs $100
TB Roller $30 vs $60
Serp Belt - do not remember
Thermostat - do not remember, but saved about $20 i think
The numbers are aproximate, some may be totally wrong but you got the idea.
> >Quite an expensive warranty, isn't it?
> That depends on whether or not it's cheaper than having him replace it in
six months.
No it does not. Warranty price is supposed to be a small fraction of the
merchandise price, not 30-60% of it, more like 5-10%. At any rate as I said
before I've not seen repair warranties lasting for 6+months (other then from
dealerships).
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a parts
>dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a lot
>of hard work involved of course .
Hitting machine with hammer: $20
Knowing where to hit it: $2480
> but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
>does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
they're tell you to kiss off.
>Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for yourself if
>they do not care.
The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
to buy it.
Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
of their knowledge.
>For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between consenting
>adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
>the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
>voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation with
>parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better off
>with getting their own parts.
You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
fraud? Come on.
>Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
his business.
>Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
>also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills for
>his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
>breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
>things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic to
>all or any of this?
Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
how the system works.
I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
should stop that.
>Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
>the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
are not free.
We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is indeed
>how the business works.
QED.
>I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
mechanic.
>my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
>and not let the business take advantage of him.
Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify any scam,
>any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal activity.
Asked and answered.
> You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
>Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a parts
>dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a lot
>of hard work involved of course .
Hitting machine with hammer: $20
Knowing where to hit it: $2480
> but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
>does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
they're tell you to kiss off.
>Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for yourself if
>they do not care.
The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
to buy it.
Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
of their knowledge.
>For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between consenting
>adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
>the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
>voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation with
>parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better off
>with getting their own parts.
You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
fraud? Come on.
>Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
his business.
>Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
>also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills for
>his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
>breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
>things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic to
>all or any of this?
Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
how the system works.
I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
should stop that.
>Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
>the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
are not free.
We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is indeed
>how the business works.
QED.
>I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
mechanic.
>my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
>and not let the business take advantage of him.
Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify any scam,
>any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal activity.
Asked and answered.
> You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 02:14:53 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>May I remind you that you are a mechanic.......
May I remind you that you are exactly the type of moron who will never
be my customer.
Some do what they have to. Others do what they want.
Grow a brain, see the difference, enjoy life.
ing idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer.
>
>May I remind you that you are a mechanic.......
May I remind you that you are exactly the type of moron who will never
be my customer.
Some do what they have to. Others do what they want.
Grow a brain, see the difference, enjoy life.
ing idiots like you are why I rarely participate here any longer.
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Audi A4 timing belt
You know, I do agree with some of what you say especially regarding the way
businesses operate. I have no idea how I got dragged into this whole stupid
argument and I am not going to provide a line by line response. Here is the
essense of what I am saying though:
Most of the customers do come to get a noise fixed and happy to leave the
shop with the noise gone. I never said it was illegal or scam or fraud to
mark up parts and a doubling the price is indeed normal. We are not talking
about double mark up though, the internet store selling me the same WP for
$70 does make a profit too, probably the same double markup, and unlike
shops they have to order them, stock them, ship them etc - really lots of
work involved. In this example the true cost of the part is likely about
$35, so charging $170 for it is OUTRAGEOUS).
Anyway, they may be happy that there is no noise, but lots of them do
grumble that it cost them a small fortune to get it fixed. That's especially
applicable to Audis and other german cars which are notoriously expensive in
repair/maintenance.
All I did was suggested that an educated consumer can invest a little time,
do a little research and save a significant amount of money on parts. And
it's not that hard, really. I am NOT a car man, but I did it twice
successfully and plan to do it again. (My first time was with rear brakes
pads/rotors, dealer quoted $220 for parts plus tax, I got EOM pads and
rotors for $100 on the internet including shipping). BTW stealer quoted 2
hours of labor for brakes at $90 hr, my non-audi mechanic did it in one hour
at $55. Total dealer quote - $400+tax = $425, I paid $160 for the same job.
Yes, you are right, the dealership did not make (take) extra $265 from me,
do you really think I am supposed to be upset about it. HAHAHAHAHA. I am
delighted to be an educated consumer and will spend MY money on MY kids. As
an extra bonus I learned a lot about cars in the process, so it's going to
be harder for mechanics to rip me off in the future.
And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
willing to do the job.
"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
news:8qhbkv8cidraeth35v4k75vnp71a3cfthn@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a
parts
> >dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a
lot
> >of hard work involved of course .
>
> Hitting machine with hammer: $20
> Knowing where to hit it: $2480
>
> > but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
> >does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
>
> You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
> business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
> they're tell you to kiss off.
>
> >Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
>
> I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>
> >Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for
yourself if
> >they do not care.
>
> The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
> parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
> expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
> to buy it.
>
> Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
> noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
> tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
>
> Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
> aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
> of their knowledge.
>
> >For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between
consenting
> >adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
> >the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
> >voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation
with
> >parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better
off
> >with getting their own parts.
>
> You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
> standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
> fraud? Come on.
>
> >Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
>
> There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
> time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
> parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
> his business.
>
> >Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
> >also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills
for
> >his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
> >breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
> >things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic
to
> >all or any of this?
>
> Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
> charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
> to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
> how the system works.
>
> I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
> should stop that.
>
> >Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
> >the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
>
> Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
> while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
> listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
> are not free.
>
> We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>
> >That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is
indeed
> >how the business works.
>
> QED.
>
> >I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
>
> The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
> mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
> mechanic.
>
> >my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
> >and not let the business take advantage of him.
>
> Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>
> >Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
>
> Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
> You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>
> >So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify
any scam,
> >any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal
activity.
>
> Asked and answered.
>
> > You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
>
> Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
>
>
businesses operate. I have no idea how I got dragged into this whole stupid
argument and I am not going to provide a line by line response. Here is the
essense of what I am saying though:
Most of the customers do come to get a noise fixed and happy to leave the
shop with the noise gone. I never said it was illegal or scam or fraud to
mark up parts and a doubling the price is indeed normal. We are not talking
about double mark up though, the internet store selling me the same WP for
$70 does make a profit too, probably the same double markup, and unlike
shops they have to order them, stock them, ship them etc - really lots of
work involved. In this example the true cost of the part is likely about
$35, so charging $170 for it is OUTRAGEOUS).
Anyway, they may be happy that there is no noise, but lots of them do
grumble that it cost them a small fortune to get it fixed. That's especially
applicable to Audis and other german cars which are notoriously expensive in
repair/maintenance.
All I did was suggested that an educated consumer can invest a little time,
do a little research and save a significant amount of money on parts. And
it's not that hard, really. I am NOT a car man, but I did it twice
successfully and plan to do it again. (My first time was with rear brakes
pads/rotors, dealer quoted $220 for parts plus tax, I got EOM pads and
rotors for $100 on the internet including shipping). BTW stealer quoted 2
hours of labor for brakes at $90 hr, my non-audi mechanic did it in one hour
at $55. Total dealer quote - $400+tax = $425, I paid $160 for the same job.
Yes, you are right, the dealership did not make (take) extra $265 from me,
do you really think I am supposed to be upset about it. HAHAHAHAHA. I am
delighted to be an educated consumer and will spend MY money on MY kids. As
an extra bonus I learned a lot about cars in the process, so it's going to
be harder for mechanics to rip me off in the future.
And if a shop/mechanic is unhappy with customer bringing their own parts,
who cares? There are lots of equally qualified mechanics without attitudes
willing to do the job.
"Pronto Breakneck" <no_address@example.com> wrote in message
news:8qhbkv8cidraeth35v4k75vnp71a3cfthn@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 05:00:33 GMT, "D O G" <somedog@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Buy doing what exactly in addition to being a mechanic? By calling a
parts
> >dealer, ordering parts from him and double charging the client? That's a
lot
> >of hard work involved of course .
>
> Hitting machine with hammer: $20
> Knowing where to hit it: $2480
>
> > but do their best to cover it up and make sure customer
> >does not realize that he gets double charged on parts
>
> You're seeing a conspiracy where there simply isn't one. Ask any
> business person what their cost is on one of their products, and
> they're tell you to kiss off.
>
> >Cut the crap. What are you in a second grade with arguments like that?
>
> I start second grade in the fall, thank you for asking.
>
> >Go >tell your customers what the parts really cost you and see for
yourself if
> >they do not care.
>
> The customers are aware that the mechanic is making money on the
> parts. They're willing to pay that because they have lack the time,
> expertise, and resources to determine which part they need and where
> to buy it.
>
> Most people want to take the car into the shop, say "it's making a
> noise", and pick it up fixed a couple of hours later. Go ahead and
> tell them about the markup on the parts, and watch them shrug.
>
> Remember, regular people aren't like car people. They're vaguely
> aware that there's an engine under there, but that's about the limit
> of their knowledge.
>
> >For your information any scam is a voluntary transaction between
consenting
> >adults as well, but it is still a scam. And if a car has a loose wire and
> >the mechanic "fixes" it by replacing half the engine - it is still a
> >voluntary business transaction too. I am not saying that the situation
with
> >parts is a scam or illegal, all I am saying that consumers can be better
off
> >with getting their own parts.
>
> You're saying that standard markup - and "double the wholesale" is
> standard markup in a lot of retail industries - is the same thing as
> fraud? Come on.
>
> >Then stop whining that there is not enough money in the business.
>
> There's the point. Tie a red flag to it so you don't miss it next
> time. If you cut into the mechanic's revenues by taking away his
> parts profit, there's not enough money for him to continue to operate
> his business.
>
> >Yep. The mechanic sure makes more money when he overcharges for parts. He
> >also makes more money when he recommends unnecessary repairs, overbills
for
> >his hours, uses rebuilt parts charging you for new ones, deliberately
> >breakes something so that he could profit by fixing it, lots of other
> >things. Do you truly believe that as a consumer I should be sympathetic
to
> >all or any of this?
>
> Again, standard markup is not synonymous with fraud. The mechanic is
> charging what the market will bear for the item. The customer is free
> to decline to purchase goods and services from the mechanic. That's
> how the system works.
>
> I get the impression that you're being deliberately obtuse. You
> should stop that.
>
> >Yep, you are right again. It's about 30 seconds to reset the code, but if
> >the customer has no idea, why not charge him $90.
>
> Because the machine to reset the code, the bay to park the car in
> while you're reseting the code, the insurance on the bay, and the
> listing in the yellow pages that brought the customer in to begin with
> are not free.
>
> We covered this in first grade. Are you not there yet?
>
> >That may well be justified from the business point of view, this is
indeed
> >how the business works.
>
> QED.
>
> >I am looking at it from the consumer's perspective,
>
> The consumer's perspective is that he or she is free to find another
> mechanic if he or she is unsatisfied with the policies or the current
> mechanic.
>
> >my original post was a recommendation to a consumer to buy his own parts
> >and not let the business take advantage of him.
>
> Operative word "let". I'm glad to see that you're catching on.
>
> >Absurd statement, you are way off base indeed.
>
> Really? Wow, I'm glad you caught that. You are indeed an astute one.
> You should go on Jeopardy or something.
>
> >So if there is no violence, >than it's fine, right? This would justify
any scam,
> >any fraud, let alone "immoral" and "unscrupulous" but otherwise legal
activity.
>
> Asked and answered.
>
> > You seem to be quite ripe to get job in telemarketing.
>
> Ad hominem. Not even a good one.
>
>