AfourQ

I can honostly say that if he does buy the A4 for the fun factor, a chipped
1.8T will be a far better choice. Better response in handling and
acceleration. Granted not as smooth as the V6 , but definately more fun.

Try both and judge for yourself.........

My $0.02

"Saintor" <saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Sneic.55377$HF5.762356@wagner.videotron.net.. .
> If you don't have the extra $$$ to go with the V6, pass the A4 and get the
> TL.
>
> "Pumba" <jambohakuna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:icRhc.3109$WC3.27850@ord-read.news.verio.net...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am in the market for a new car. I would like opinions regarding the
> 2003
> > Audi 1.8T Quatro model. Any concerns/gripes/frustrations etc.......I
test
> > drove the car and it felt really "good". However the price is a little
> > steep close to US $30k. A friend of mine also has the new 2004 Acura
> > TL....and it looks really "sharp" and for a little extra (just like $2k
> > more) you get way more bang for your buck (bigger car, bigger engine,
more
> > standard features etc). I currently own a Honda and so am a witness to
> > their reliability. However, I have no experiece with German cars. So I
> > would like opinions on whether previous Audi owners would still go for
the
> > much smaller Audi 1.8T rather than the abundant Acura TL.
> >
> > PS - Auto consumer reports also show that the Audi reliability is not up
> to
> > par with Acura......any truth to that?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> >
>
>

Steve Grauman

I have to largly agree here. If the 3.0 A4 is out of your price range - and
especially if you're looking for an Auto rather than a stick - buy the TL. The
Audi is more fun on Canyon roads IMO but the TL has the A4 beat on the
priceerformance ratio, and 270Hp is hard to argue with. Plus, chipping a 1.8T
often means no warranty - I'm going trhough this with my Vw GTi 1.8T. Other
than that, take a look at the G35 and Nissan's Maxima (obviously FWD doesn't
bother you if the TL is a serious choice). OTOH, if it were my money and my
purchase, I'd find a used 2001 S4 and snap it up. Even with the tip it'll do
0-60 in under 6 seconds, has standard Quattro and is a BLAST to drive. A used
2.7T A6 isn't a bad choice either.

Ian S.

"Pumba" <jambohakuna@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mkUhc.3117$WC3.28244@ord-read.news.verio.net...
> Great.....I thank all for their opinions.
>
> What about the reliability of the 2004 Audi A4 1.8T? For the 2003
> model.....consumer reports suggest its reliability is not up to par with
> Acura. All those die hard long time Audi owners want to shed some light?
>
> I have been told that the maintenance costs for the Audi are much higher
> than that of the Acura........at least here in the US. Any thoughts on
> that?
>
> Thanks again!

The good news is that maintenance is free for the first four years/50000
miles. The bad news is that after that, it's expensive. Brakes are great but
don't last that long especially under spirited driving and when the pads
wear out you can pretty much count on replacing the rotors since they have
little meat available to machine. Audi has never been a paragon of
reliability and that's not about to change. I've owned Audis for over 18
years so I've had some experience. My 98 A4 2.8 quattro has suffered from
some of the common problems but also a couple of its own (clutch release
bearing and climate control fan both under warranty). I'm about to do the
timing belt and ancillary component replacement which typically runs well
north of $1000 if the dealer does it. It's also leaking oil. Fortunately, I
haven't suffered from the dreaded control arm problem which is likely a
consequence of living in sunny and dry Arizona. Although I am not that
familiar with the 1.8, people tell me that if you get the quattro on that
car, you really won't be thrilled with the performance unless you chip it
and if you do that, your warranty may be problematic. Also, IMHO, there is
not much point to getting a non-quattro Audi. Speaking of quattro, I love it
and it has always been one of the more reliable components of the car.
Actually, the major Audi components like the drive train are pretty
bullet-proof and engines like the old 5 cylinder seem to last forever. The
bits and pieces that break are smaller but quite costly items: anyone
remember the infamous breaking door handles of the older Audis? Goodness,
I'll bet that if you went into a scrap yard that the door handles on 90% on
non-Audis would still be functioning. Door handles are not rocket science.
Then there's the more recent embarrassment of the failing coil packs. It's
not like VW/Audi hasn't had about a century to develop coil technology. Or
maybe they buy them from Lucas.

At any rate, this Audi will be my last for awhile and for my next car I will
likely be returning to the rotary camp I left some 15 years ago. I suspect
there are few stock A4's or TT's that could keep up to an RX-8. And it comes
with about the same rear legroom as my A4.

Saintor

"AfourQ" <AfourQ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6bup8$d18$1@dns3.cae.ca...
> I can honostly say that if he does buy the A4 for the fun factor, a
chipped
> 1.8T will be a far better choice. Better response in handling and
> acceleration. Granted not as smooth as the V6 , but definately more fun.


I don't agree. Even a great 4 can't match a good 6. BMW understood it. The
driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6. I just don't like the
tin-can sound of the 1.8T.

Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then they
were easy to recognize only by the sound.

xymergy@suds.com

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:40:18 GMT, "Pumba" <jambohakuna@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I have been told that the maintenance costs for the Audi are much higher
>than that of the Acura........at least here in the US. Any thoughts on
>that?

Yes. The Acura will cost less to run, but it may not be as much fun
as the Audi. What's important to you?

Jonesy

"Saintor" <saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Ditic.80143$HF5.1224167@wagner.videotron.net >...
> "AfourQ" <AfourQ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c6bup8$d18$1@dns3.cae.ca...
> > I can honostly say that if he does buy the A4 for the fun factor, a
> chipped
> > 1.8T will be a far better choice. Better response in handling and
> > acceleration. Granted not as smooth as the V6 , but definately more fun.
>
>
> I don't agree. Even a great 4 can't match a good 6.

Merely your opinion. The Acura six is not in a league with the BMW
six in any case. Add to that the cheesy FWD layout and it's inherent
torque steer, and you have a poor driver's platform.

The reduction in weight from running a turbo four in the A4 makes the
car more balanced. The 3.0 is nice, but it's heavy.


> BMW understood it. The
> driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6.

Not just any six, but an I6. And RWD. A V6 and FWD aren't in the
same league.

> I just don't like the
> tin-can sound of the 1.8T.

LOL. From inside, you can't tell the difference in sound. Not even a
trained musician can tell the difference. From outside, who cares?
Tin can? Fart can mufflers are much more likely on an Acura, LOL.

> Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then they
> were easy to recognize only by the sound.

LOL. What velvety sound? They sounded like underpowered 4-cyl,
cast-iron block, Al-head motors, just like all the others. The only
4-cyl car that had any sort of sound recognition was maybe the 2.0L
Alfa. Or the Mazda Miata.

Fawning over Honda products doesn't make them great. They have their
place, and that's in the rear-view mirror of almost any European
competitor. But hey, they *are* reliable, which means something.
Saying that they are some sort of driving machinery flies in the face
of real experience.
--
Jonesy

Saintor

> Merely your opinion. The Acura six is not in a league with the BMW
> six in any case. Add to that the cheesy FWD layout and it's inherent
> torque steer, and you have a poor driver's platform.

Not only it is in the same league, but it betters all its specs in the same
price range +/- 20%. Some will prefer the BMW I6 and others will prefer the
Acura V6 which has a terrific sound at 6000-7000rpm.


> > BMW understood it. The
> > driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6.
>
> Not just any six, but an I6. And RWD. A V6 and FWD aren't in the
> same league.

It is only between the two ears of the believer. Again, yesterday in the
SCCA Touring, a mere RSX won the race SCCA Touring at Atlanta over a crowd
of 325s.

>
> > I just don't like the
> > tin-can sound of the 1.8T.
>
> LOL. From inside, you can't tell the difference in sound. Not even a
> trained musician can tell the difference. From outside, who cares?
> Tin can? Fart can mufflers are much more likely on an Acura, LOL.
>
> > Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then
they
> > were easy to recognize only by the sound.
>
> LOL. What velvety sound? They sounded like underpowered 4-cyl,
> cast-iron block, Al-head motors, just like all the others. The only
> 4-cyl car that had any sort of sound recognition was maybe the 2.0L
> Alfa. Or the Mazda Miata.

Oh no, you are dead wrong here; VW/Audi 4 cyl. pre-Mk III had a very
distinct sound for whoever really knows the brand.


> Fawning over Honda products doesn't make them great. They have their
> place, and that's in the rear-view mirror of almost any European
> competitor. But hey, they *are* reliable, which means something.
> Saying that they are some sort of driving machinery flies in the face
> of real experience.
> --
> Jonesy

So Eric has AGAIN a new identity; Jonesy. Of course.

AfourQ

I gotto agree with the sound factor...6's do sounds sweet.
A great 4 not matching a good V6 though??? in terms of what, cause a chipped
1.8T will always outperform the 3.0L V6, with better fuel efficiency.

It is all about what he is looking for.

BMW uses flat 6's to get great torque figures.

It is like comparing the 2.7T to the 4.2L V8 in the S4.
A chipped 2.7T will always outrun the V8 (by the way, the 2.7T stock is just
as fast as the 4.2L V8 in the S4)

......
"Saintor" <saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message
newsitic.80143$HF5.1224167@wagner.videotron.net. ..
>
> "AfourQ" <AfourQ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c6bup8$d18$1@dns3.cae.ca...
> > I can honostly say that if he does buy the A4 for the fun factor, a
> chipped
> > 1.8T will be a far better choice. Better response in handling and
> > acceleration. Granted not as smooth as the V6 , but definately more fun.
>
>
> I don't agree. Even a great 4 can't match a good 6. BMW understood it.
The
> driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6. I just don't like the
> tin-can sound of the 1.8T.
>
> Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then
they
> were easy to recognize only by the sound.
>
>
>

Peter Bell

In message <c6js6e$317$1@dns3.cae.ca>
"AfourQ" <AfourQ@hotmail.com> wrote:

> BMW uses flat 6's ....

They do? Porsche use flat sixes, BMW use In-line sixes.

--
Peter Bell (Note Spamtrap - To reply, replace 'invalid' with 'bellfamily')

Jonesy

"Saintor" <saintor1@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message news:<7Najc.65781$2V6.606755@wagner.videotron.net> ...
> > Merely your opinion. The Acura six is not in a league with the BMW
> > six in any case. Add to that the cheesy FWD layout and it's inherent
> > torque steer, and you have a poor driver's platform.
>
> Not only it is in the same league, but it betters all its specs in the same
> price range +/- 20%.

Specs??? As in "bench racing?"

FWD will never be a real driver's platform.

I do believe that the Acura is the torque-steer leader in the cost
category.

> Some will prefer the BMW I6 and others will prefer the
> Acura V6 which has a terrific sound at 6000-7000rpm.

And some will actual prefer *driving* a well-balanced I4 turbo car
that costs less than either of the other two, and can outperform the
Acura on everything except bone-dry tarmac. And you can't hear it
inside the cabin anyway!

> > > BMW understood it. The
> > > driving experience is much more enhanced with a 6.
> >
> > Not just any six, but an I6. And RWD. A V6 and FWD aren't in the
> > same league.
>
> It is only between the two ears of the believer. Again, yesterday in the
> SCCA Touring, a mere RSX won the race SCCA Touring at Atlanta over a crowd
> of 325s.

What does a race-prepped RSX have to do with a road-going TL? Other
than the manufacturer name on the trunklid?

> >
> > > I just don't like the
> > > tin-can sound of the 1.8T.
> >
> > LOL. From inside, you can't tell the difference in sound. Not even a
> > trained musician can tell the difference. From outside, who cares?
> > Tin can? Fart can mufflers are much more likely on an Acura, LOL.
> >
> > > Too bad that VW/Audi 4 cyl. lost their velvety sound of the '80s. Then
> they
> > > were easy to recognize only by the sound.
> >
> > LOL. What velvety sound? They sounded like underpowered 4-cyl,
> > cast-iron block, Al-head motors, just like all the others. The only
> > 4-cyl car that had any sort of sound recognition was maybe the 2.0L
> > Alfa. Or the Mazda Miata.
>
> Oh no, you are dead wrong here; VW/Audi 4 cyl. pre-Mk III had a very
> distinct sound for whoever really knows the brand.

B.S.

But you can claim it all you want - you haven't a shred of proof to
back up your silly claim.

> > Fawning over Honda products doesn't make them great. They have their
> > place, and that's in the rear-view mirror of almost any European
> > competitor. But hey, they *are* reliable, which means something.
> > Saying that they are some sort of driving machinery flies in the face
> > of real experience.
> > --
> > Jonesy
>
> So Eric has AGAIN a new identity; Jonesy. Of course.

Jeez, you are terribly slow, aren't you?
--
Robert F. Jones (duh, you silly moron)