Steve Grauman

VW is keeping pretty busy getting the MKV Golf ready for it's U.S. sales debut,
but with the MKV Passats development coming to an end, I think the Audi
division, and A4 buyers in general, should be concerned. The fifth generation
Passat is going to be pushing hard into A4 territory, offering up at least two
versions of the new 3.2 litre VR6, the least powerful of which will produce
250Hp, as well as a new 2.0 litre turbo-four. This, in addition to the facts
that the Passat will be avaliable with 4Motion, and that a 300+ Hp variant is
in the works, with a $35-36K price tag, is most certainly of concern to me as a
VW/Audi enthusiast. With the 3.0 litre, 225 Hp V6 being it's top engine (in the
non-S/RS variants), the A4 will be falling behind the Passat in terms of power,
as well as in terms of it's priceerformance ratio. BMW's up-rated "new" 330I
coupe boasts 235Hp and a 0-60 time in the high 5s, and an A4 based coupe (if
one ever comes to light) is a ways off. Audi is pushing hard for mass-failure:
more powerful, more competant, and less-expensive cars are coming to market
everyday, the 330i sedan, and the upcoming MKV Passat may be the least of
Audi's concerns.

Mike Smith

Steve Grauman wrote:

> Audi is pushing hard for mass-failure:
> more powerful, more competant, and less-expensive cars are coming to market
> everyday, the 330i sedan, and the upcoming MKV Passat may be the least of
> Audi's concerns.

"Upcoming Mk V Passat"? Wouldn't the new one be Mk VI (B6)?

--
Mike Smith

Steve Grauman

<< "Upcoming Mk V Passat"? Wouldn't the new one be Mk VI (B6)? >>

My mistake, you are correct. The current Passat is technically an MK5.5, the
new version will be the MK6. Although, I'm not sure VW can use the B6 platform
name, as that is the platform name for the new A4, and I don't believe it and
the Passat will be sharing a platform any longer.

Mike Smith

Steve Grauman wrote:

> The current Passat is technically an MK5.5

Are you sure? I thought the "B5.5" nomenclature was just made up by VW
fans to refer to the 2001.5+ Passats, but that it wasn't an actual
platform designation.

--
Mike Smith

Gez

Stick to your VW then mate. I will still choose the Audi. Who gave VW the
3.2 oh dear that must be Audi then...

At the other end of the scale what is the new golf to be based on, oh dear
that must be the new A3 then...

What diesel engine will the new Golf be sporting, oh dear that must be the
New 2.0 FSI Diesel from Audi then.....

It goes on..............

The Passat has never and will never, despite being a competent Car, carry
the Class of the A4. It tries too hard and shouts too loud. It dates too
easily and will remain competitive but only with the likes of Ford, GM,
Mazda etc. Against them , I would choose it but against the A4, 3 series
BMW, Mercedes C Class, forget it.

Do you really believe that the group will engineer or conspire to push VW to
the fore in direct competition to the other prestige marques and in doing so
commit automotive suicide by designing the demise of such a distinguished
brand with the four rings.

Even the Yanks couldn't get it that wrong.....May be not!

I for one will continue to enjoy the M3's a beautiful Black S4 AVANT
oh yes it does have fitted one of the finest V8'S Money can buy... Must be
an Audi then!

Go find a gullible VW News Group to Spout off too. We can take care of ours.

Gez.......

If so you must be deluding yourself
"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030928192809.11685.00000335@mb-m04.aol.com...
> VW is keeping pretty busy getting the MKV Golf ready for it's U.S. sales
debut,
> but with the MKV Passats development coming to an end, I think the Audi
> division, and A4 buyers in general, should be concerned. The fifth
generation
> Passat is going to be pushing hard into A4 territory, offering up at
least two
> versions of the new 3.2 litre VR6, the least powerful of which will
produce
> 250Hp, as well as a new 2.0 litre turbo-four. This, in addition to the
facts
> that the Passat will be avaliable with 4Motion, and that a 300+ Hp variant
is
> in the works, with a $35-36K price tag, is most certainly of concern to me
as a
> VW/Audi enthusiast. With the 3.0 litre, 225 Hp V6 being it's top engine
(in the
> non-S/RS variants), the A4 will be falling behind the Passat in terms of
power,
> as well as in terms of it's priceerformance ratio. BMW's up-rated "new"
330I
> coupe boasts 235Hp and a 0-60 time in the high 5s, and an A4 based coupe
(if
> one ever comes to light) is a ways off. Audi is pushing hard for
mass-failure:
> more powerful, more competant, and less-expensive cars are coming to
market
> everyday, the 330i sedan, and the upcoming MKV Passat may be the least of
> Audi's concerns.

Steve Grauman

<< Who gave VW the
3.2 oh dear that must be Audi then... >>

No, the 3.2 litre VR6 is a purely VW design.

<< At the other end of the scale what is the new golf to be based on, oh dear
that must be the new A3 then... >>

Actually, your backwards. The A3 is built on the MKV platform, which VW
designed for the Golf first.

<< What diesel engine will the new Golf be sporting, oh dear that must be the
New 2.0 FSI Diesel from Audi then..... >>

You see this as a plus? With VW now carrying Audi engines, it leaves buyers
with even *less* incentive to step up.

<< The Passat has never and will never, despite being a competent Car, carry
the Class of the A4. >>

It's 90% of everything the A4 is for thousands less. And my father owned a B5
A4, so I have a direct comparison.

<< against the A4, 3 series
BMW, Mercedes C Class, forget it. >>

I'm not sure I can honestly say I'd pick *any* VW/Audi product over the
competitive product from BMW. The A8 Vs. the 7 series would be the only
exception. The C-class is overpriced, under-whelming, and generally crap for
people who want nothing more than the name. The SL and S-class sedans are MBs
only strong suits.

<< Do you really believe that the group will engineer or conspire to push VW to
the fore in direct competition to the other prestige marques and in doing so
commit automotive suicide by designing the demise of such a distinguished
brand with the four rings. >>

Not only do I believe they'd do it, I *know* their doing it. The Toureag pushes
over $50k when fully loaded, and the Pheaton, sharing many parts with the A8,
is due soon, with a price tag veering close to $100,000 USD when fully
equipped. Are you that blind? Can't you see that VW is starting the push into
BMW, MB, and Audi territory?

<< Even the Yanks couldn't get it that wrong.....May be not! >>

First of all, the Americans had nothing to do with this. Secondly, "maybe" is
one word.

<< Go find a gullible VW News Group to Spout off too. We can take care of ours.
>>

Blind brand advocacy like what you're spouting is what's allowed Audi to remain
complacent and unresponsive for this long. Watering down the problem makes it
seem less like a problem, but watering down scotch will ruin it, watering down
a problem so the company can ignore it will only prolong the problem, and ruin
problem.

Steve Grauman

<< Are you sure? I thought the "B5.5" nomenclature was just made up by VW
fans to refer to the 2001.5+ Passats, but that it wasn't an actual
platform designation. >>

I'm not sure if VW uses it internally or not. I just refer to the 2001 and
newer Passats as B5.5 because they had a nice list of upgrades, but not enough
to merit a whole new platform designation.

Mike Smith

Gez wrote:

> Stick to your VW then mate. I will still choose the Audi. Who gave VW the
> 3.2 oh dear that must be Audi then...

Um, no. The 3.2 "V6" is actually a VR6-type design, ergo originating
from VW.

> At the other end of the scale what is the new golf to be based on, oh dear
> that must be the new A3 then...

The A5 platform has been in development for some time now, and AIUI was
intended from the start to be used for both the new Golf/Jetta and the
Audi A3. It's not an "Audi" platform, it's a VWAG corporate platform,
to be used across a variety of models, including not only VW and Audi
but also SEAT and Skoda as well.

Now, of course, the technology development/sharing goes both ways (e.g.
the 4.2 V8, 1.8T, etc.), and the Audi models are obviously intended to
be more upscale (though there is the Phaeton...) but let's not forget
who owns whom. Audi is VW's bitch, not the other way around.

--
Mike Smith

Steve Grauman

<< The A5 platform has been in development for some time now, and AIUI was
intended from the start to be used for both the new Golf/Jetta and the
Audi A3. It's not an "Audi" platform, it's a VWAG corporate platform,
to be used across a variety of models, including not only VW and Audi
but also SEAT and Skoda as well. >>

This works out really well for both parties. It helps to cut costs during
development (as both companies split the financial load) and helps to ensure a
platform that can support a vareity of different compact coupes and sedans.

<< Audi is VW's bitch, not the other way around. >>

This has been a good relationship so far actually. But while I want the VWs to
get nicer, more powerful, and more competant, what I don't want to see is them
pushing so far into Audi territory that Audi no longer has anywhere to go.
Let's hope the internal pressure VW is starting to put on forces Audi to get
their togethor, and really put togethor an A4 that can beat the 3 series.

Spider

oneactor1@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote in message news:<20030929215353.09624.00000065@mb-m25.aol.com>...
> << Are you sure? I thought the "B5.5" nomenclature was just made up by VW
> fans to refer to the 2001.5+ Passats, but that it wasn't an actual
> platform designation. >>
>
> I'm not sure if VW uses it internally or not.

Then how can it "technically" be the designation?

> I just refer to the 2001 and
> newer Passats as B5.5 because they had a nice list of upgrades, but not enough
> to merit a whole new platform designation.

LOL. So, "technically", it's your opinion.

Spider