tockeyhockey@gmail.com

one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
quality is some sort of badge of honor.

there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.

it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.

by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?

Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> I'm going to lemon-law my 2005 Accord Hybrid because the engine hasn't
> been repairable in the past 18 months. It runs like it is 250K miles
> old, drinks gas like an old clunker, and keeps turning on the
> malfunction light. I can't say that the automatic transmission works
> any better. Oh yeah - my speakers wrinkled, the windshield cracked, a
> couple of rear lugnuts broke off, the tire pump seizes, a few dangerous
> software bugs had to be fixed, and a door switch broke off.
>
> The funny thing is that I'm here because I'm considering buying an 6-cyl
> A4 Avant. Wanna trade, Jessica? Do you think our cars can survive a
> cross-country trip between San Jose and Massachusetts?
>
> Nah.
>
>
> In article <12niai6paobuv0a@corp.supernews.com>,
> TonyJ <tonyjnospam@nospamvisi.com> wrote:
>
> > Honda makes a nice car called the Accord.
> >
> > jess wrote:
> >
> > > I have a 2005 A4 3.2..its been nothing but problems!!! I have replaced
> > > the tires TWICE ( i drive 99% highway)!! About 3 mo. ago my cd player
> > > froze and all my cds were stuck in it...that was also replaced. Then,
> > > the plastic around my shifter cracked and broke...i couldnt even put
> > > the car in park...that was replaced. Now, my tail lights stay on all
> > > the time and pushing the alarm button DOESNT shut them off! i found the
> > > only way to fix it is to turn the car on, put it in reverse, and then
> > > back in park!!!! Thats not even it.....2 days ago when i was driving
> > > (30 mph) the RPM's were at 4000! I found the only way to drive normally
> > > was to switch into manual and drive in 5th gear!! The car is in the
> > > shop now (has been since then) and they keep telling me they cant
> > > diagnose the problem!!! The car is still under warranty but, when does
> > > this nightmare end?? I happened to find a message from "Nedry" in June
> > > on this site and he had the same exact issues with the lights and the
> > > engine!!! What is going on?? I wish i never bought this car....it is
> > > nothing but a headache.
> > >

Kevin McMurtrie

I'm lurking here for a while. I've been reading the Honda group since I
bought a 1997 Civic HX, which was the best-made car I've ever seen.

What bothers me is when new technologies aren't refined enough that
mechanics can work on them. My 1988 Toyota Tercel was a complex mess of
old and new technology that never worked and couldn't be fixed. My 1997
Honda Civic had technology so beautifully refined to simple modular
components that I repaired and maintained it at home with basic tools.
With my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, I'm back to a car with a jumble of
unrefined technology that is too convoluted to be repaired.

Example - The Accord Hybrid switches to 3 cylinders to save gas. This
switch causes the engine to jolt so the hybrid drive acts as a virtual
flywheel of infinite weight. The engine still shakes a bit so it has
solenoid engine mounts with counter-phased drive. The intake buzzes a
bit too so there's noise cancellation in the radio. The radio's noise
cancellation rattles the doors so there's also a white noise generator
to drown out rattling. The engine's drive shaft shakes so the torque
converter lockup has counter-phased pressure pulsing. How much does
switching to 3 cylinders save? I get better milage with it disabled.
All of the crap that compensates for the ill effects of 3 cylinder mode
is worse than any possible benefit of 3 cylinder mode. That's bad
engineering an no amount of hacking on this design is going to fix it.
I could go on and on like this about the Accord Hybrid.

I'm interested in how well refined the 2007 Audi A4 Avant V6 is. I can
cope with a few manufacturing defects that need warranty repairs. What
I don't want is mess of mismatched and unrefined engineering/assembly
that will never work right because the underlying design is wrong.



In article <1165719242.197573.70320@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups. com>,
"tockeyhockey@gmail.com" <tockeyhockey@gmail.com> wrote:

> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.
>
> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.
>
> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.
>
> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?
>
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> > I'm going to lemon-law my 2005 Accord Hybrid because the engine hasn't
> > been repairable in the past 18 months. It runs like it is 250K miles
> > old, drinks gas like an old clunker, and keeps turning on the
> > malfunction light. I can't say that the automatic transmission works
> > any better. Oh yeah - my speakers wrinkled, the windshield cracked, a
> > couple of rear lugnuts broke off, the tire pump seizes, a few dangerous
> > software bugs had to be fixed, and a door switch broke off.
> >
> > The funny thing is that I'm here because I'm considering buying an 6-cyl
> > A4 Avant. Wanna trade, Jessica? Do you think our cars can survive a
> > cross-country trip between San Jose and Massachusetts?
> >
> > Nah.
> >
> >
> > In article <12niai6paobuv0a@corp.supernews.com>,
> > TonyJ <tonyjnospam@nospamvisi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Honda makes a nice car called the Accord.
> > >
> > > jess wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 2005 A4 3.2..its been nothing but problems!!! I have replaced
> > > > the tires TWICE ( i drive 99% highway)!! About 3 mo. ago my cd player
> > > > froze and all my cds were stuck in it...that was also replaced. Then,
> > > > the plastic around my shifter cracked and broke...i couldnt even put
> > > > the car in park...that was replaced. Now, my tail lights stay on all
> > > > the time and pushing the alarm button DOESNT shut them off! i found the
> > > > only way to fix it is to turn the car on, put it in reverse, and then
> > > > back in park!!!! Thats not even it.....2 days ago when i was driving
> > > > (30 mph) the RPM's were at 4000! I found the only way to drive normally
> > > > was to switch into manual and drive in 5th gear!! The car is in the
> > > > shop now (has been since then) and they keep telling me they cant
> > > > diagnose the problem!!! The car is still under warranty but, when does
> > > > this nightmare end?? I happened to find a message from "Nedry" in June
> > > > on this site and he had the same exact issues with the lights and the
> > > > engine!!! What is going on?? I wish i never bought this car....it is
> > > > nothing but a headache.
> > > >

Kevin McMurtrie

I'm lurking here for a while. I've been reading the Honda group since I
bought a 1997 Civic HX, which was the best-made car I've ever seen.

What bothers me is when new technologies aren't refined enough that
mechanics can work on them. My 1988 Toyota Tercel was a complex mess of
old and new technology that never worked and couldn't be fixed. My 1997
Honda Civic had technology so beautifully refined to simple modular
components that I repaired and maintained it at home with basic tools.
With my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, I'm back to a car with a jumble of
unrefined technology that is too convoluted to be repaired.

Example - The Accord Hybrid switches to 3 cylinders to save gas. This
switch causes the engine to jolt so the hybrid drive acts as a virtual
flywheel of infinite weight. The engine still shakes a bit so it has
solenoid engine mounts with counter-phased drive. The intake buzzes a
bit too so there's noise cancellation in the radio. The radio's noise
cancellation rattles the doors so there's also a white noise generator
to drown out rattling. The engine's drive shaft shakes so the torque
converter lockup has counter-phased pressure pulsing. How much does
switching to 3 cylinders save? I get better milage with it disabled.
All of the crap that compensates for the ill effects of 3 cylinder mode
is worse than any possible benefit of 3 cylinder mode. That's bad
engineering an no amount of hacking on this design is going to fix it.
I could go on and on like this about the Accord Hybrid.

I'm interested in how well refined the 2007 Audi A4 Avant V6 is. I can
cope with a few manufacturing defects that need warranty repairs. What
I don't want is mess of mismatched and unrefined engineering/assembly
that will never work right because the underlying design is wrong.



In article <1165719242.197573.70320@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups. com>,
"tockeyhockey@gmail.com" <tockeyhockey@gmail.com> wrote:

> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.
>
> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.
>
> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.
>
> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?
>
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> > I'm going to lemon-law my 2005 Accord Hybrid because the engine hasn't
> > been repairable in the past 18 months. It runs like it is 250K miles
> > old, drinks gas like an old clunker, and keeps turning on the
> > malfunction light. I can't say that the automatic transmission works
> > any better. Oh yeah - my speakers wrinkled, the windshield cracked, a
> > couple of rear lugnuts broke off, the tire pump seizes, a few dangerous
> > software bugs had to be fixed, and a door switch broke off.
> >
> > The funny thing is that I'm here because I'm considering buying an 6-cyl
> > A4 Avant. Wanna trade, Jessica? Do you think our cars can survive a
> > cross-country trip between San Jose and Massachusetts?
> >
> > Nah.
> >
> >
> > In article <12niai6paobuv0a@corp.supernews.com>,
> > TonyJ <tonyjnospam@nospamvisi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Honda makes a nice car called the Accord.
> > >
> > > jess wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 2005 A4 3.2..its been nothing but problems!!! I have replaced
> > > > the tires TWICE ( i drive 99% highway)!! About 3 mo. ago my cd player
> > > > froze and all my cds were stuck in it...that was also replaced. Then,
> > > > the plastic around my shifter cracked and broke...i couldnt even put
> > > > the car in park...that was replaced. Now, my tail lights stay on all
> > > > the time and pushing the alarm button DOESNT shut them off! i found the
> > > > only way to fix it is to turn the car on, put it in reverse, and then
> > > > back in park!!!! Thats not even it.....2 days ago when i was driving
> > > > (30 mph) the RPM's were at 4000! I found the only way to drive normally
> > > > was to switch into manual and drive in 5th gear!! The car is in the
> > > > shop now (has been since then) and they keep telling me they cant
> > > > diagnose the problem!!! The car is still under warranty but, when does
> > > > this nightmare end?? I happened to find a message from "Nedry" in June
> > > > on this site and he had the same exact issues with the lights and the
> > > > engine!!! What is going on?? I wish i never bought this car....it is
> > > > nothing but a headache.
> > > >

Kevin McMurtrie

I'm lurking here for a while. I've been reading the Honda group since I
bought a 1997 Civic HX, which was the best-made car I've ever seen.

What bothers me is when new technologies aren't refined enough that
mechanics can work on them. My 1988 Toyota Tercel was a complex mess of
old and new technology that never worked and couldn't be fixed. My 1997
Honda Civic had technology so beautifully refined to simple modular
components that I repaired and maintained it at home with basic tools.
With my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, I'm back to a car with a jumble of
unrefined technology that is too convoluted to be repaired.

Example - The Accord Hybrid switches to 3 cylinders to save gas. This
switch causes the engine to jolt so the hybrid drive acts as a virtual
flywheel of infinite weight. The engine still shakes a bit so it has
solenoid engine mounts with counter-phased drive. The intake buzzes a
bit too so there's noise cancellation in the radio. The radio's noise
cancellation rattles the doors so there's also a white noise generator
to drown out rattling. The engine's drive shaft shakes so the torque
converter lockup has counter-phased pressure pulsing. How much does
switching to 3 cylinders save? I get better milage with it disabled.
All of the crap that compensates for the ill effects of 3 cylinder mode
is worse than any possible benefit of 3 cylinder mode. That's bad
engineering an no amount of hacking on this design is going to fix it.
I could go on and on like this about the Accord Hybrid.

I'm interested in how well refined the 2007 Audi A4 Avant V6 is. I can
cope with a few manufacturing defects that need warranty repairs. What
I don't want is mess of mismatched and unrefined engineering/assembly
that will never work right because the underlying design is wrong.



In article <1165719242.197573.70320@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups. com>,
"tockeyhockey@gmail.com" <tockeyhockey@gmail.com> wrote:

> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.
>
> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.
>
> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.
>
> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?
>
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> > I'm going to lemon-law my 2005 Accord Hybrid because the engine hasn't
> > been repairable in the past 18 months. It runs like it is 250K miles
> > old, drinks gas like an old clunker, and keeps turning on the
> > malfunction light. I can't say that the automatic transmission works
> > any better. Oh yeah - my speakers wrinkled, the windshield cracked, a
> > couple of rear lugnuts broke off, the tire pump seizes, a few dangerous
> > software bugs had to be fixed, and a door switch broke off.
> >
> > The funny thing is that I'm here because I'm considering buying an 6-cyl
> > A4 Avant. Wanna trade, Jessica? Do you think our cars can survive a
> > cross-country trip between San Jose and Massachusetts?
> >
> > Nah.
> >
> >
> > In article <12niai6paobuv0a@corp.supernews.com>,
> > TonyJ <tonyjnospam@nospamvisi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Honda makes a nice car called the Accord.
> > >
> > > jess wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 2005 A4 3.2..its been nothing but problems!!! I have replaced
> > > > the tires TWICE ( i drive 99% highway)!! About 3 mo. ago my cd player
> > > > froze and all my cds were stuck in it...that was also replaced. Then,
> > > > the plastic around my shifter cracked and broke...i couldnt even put
> > > > the car in park...that was replaced. Now, my tail lights stay on all
> > > > the time and pushing the alarm button DOESNT shut them off! i found the
> > > > only way to fix it is to turn the car on, put it in reverse, and then
> > > > back in park!!!! Thats not even it.....2 days ago when i was driving
> > > > (30 mph) the RPM's were at 4000! I found the only way to drive normally
> > > > was to switch into manual and drive in 5th gear!! The car is in the
> > > > shop now (has been since then) and they keep telling me they cant
> > > > diagnose the problem!!! The car is still under warranty but, when does
> > > > this nightmare end?? I happened to find a message from "Nedry" in June
> > > > on this site and he had the same exact issues with the lights and the
> > > > engine!!! What is going on?? I wish i never bought this car....it is
> > > > nothing but a headache.
> > > >

Kevin McMurtrie

I'm lurking here for a while. I've been reading the Honda group since I
bought a 1997 Civic HX, which was the best-made car I've ever seen.

What bothers me is when new technologies aren't refined enough that
mechanics can work on them. My 1988 Toyota Tercel was a complex mess of
old and new technology that never worked and couldn't be fixed. My 1997
Honda Civic had technology so beautifully refined to simple modular
components that I repaired and maintained it at home with basic tools.
With my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, I'm back to a car with a jumble of
unrefined technology that is too convoluted to be repaired.

Example - The Accord Hybrid switches to 3 cylinders to save gas. This
switch causes the engine to jolt so the hybrid drive acts as a virtual
flywheel of infinite weight. The engine still shakes a bit so it has
solenoid engine mounts with counter-phased drive. The intake buzzes a
bit too so there's noise cancellation in the radio. The radio's noise
cancellation rattles the doors so there's also a white noise generator
to drown out rattling. The engine's drive shaft shakes so the torque
converter lockup has counter-phased pressure pulsing. How much does
switching to 3 cylinders save? I get better milage with it disabled.
All of the crap that compensates for the ill effects of 3 cylinder mode
is worse than any possible benefit of 3 cylinder mode. That's bad
engineering an no amount of hacking on this design is going to fix it.
I could go on and on like this about the Accord Hybrid.

I'm interested in how well refined the 2007 Audi A4 Avant V6 is. I can
cope with a few manufacturing defects that need warranty repairs. What
I don't want is mess of mismatched and unrefined engineering/assembly
that will never work right because the underlying design is wrong.



In article <1165719242.197573.70320@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups. com>,
"tockeyhockey@gmail.com" <tockeyhockey@gmail.com> wrote:

> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.
>
> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.
>
> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.
>
> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?
>
> Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> > I'm going to lemon-law my 2005 Accord Hybrid because the engine hasn't
> > been repairable in the past 18 months. It runs like it is 250K miles
> > old, drinks gas like an old clunker, and keeps turning on the
> > malfunction light. I can't say that the automatic transmission works
> > any better. Oh yeah - my speakers wrinkled, the windshield cracked, a
> > couple of rear lugnuts broke off, the tire pump seizes, a few dangerous
> > software bugs had to be fixed, and a door switch broke off.
> >
> > The funny thing is that I'm here because I'm considering buying an 6-cyl
> > A4 Avant. Wanna trade, Jessica? Do you think our cars can survive a
> > cross-country trip between San Jose and Massachusetts?
> >
> > Nah.
> >
> >
> > In article <12niai6paobuv0a@corp.supernews.com>,
> > TonyJ <tonyjnospam@nospamvisi.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Honda makes a nice car called the Accord.
> > >
> > > jess wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a 2005 A4 3.2..its been nothing but problems!!! I have replaced
> > > > the tires TWICE ( i drive 99% highway)!! About 3 mo. ago my cd player
> > > > froze and all my cds were stuck in it...that was also replaced. Then,
> > > > the plastic around my shifter cracked and broke...i couldnt even put
> > > > the car in park...that was replaced. Now, my tail lights stay on all
> > > > the time and pushing the alarm button DOESNT shut them off! i found the
> > > > only way to fix it is to turn the car on, put it in reverse, and then
> > > > back in park!!!! Thats not even it.....2 days ago when i was driving
> > > > (30 mph) the RPM's were at 4000! I found the only way to drive normally
> > > > was to switch into manual and drive in 5th gear!! The car is in the
> > > > shop now (has been since then) and they keep telling me they cant
> > > > diagnose the problem!!! The car is still under warranty but, when does
> > > > this nightmare end?? I happened to find a message from "Nedry" in June
> > > > on this site and he had the same exact issues with the lights and the
> > > > engine!!! What is going on?? I wish i never bought this car....it is
> > > > nothing but a headache.
> > > >

Ed Pirrero

tockeyhockey@gmail.com wrote:
> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.

You're wrong. Some of us accept the German engineering quirks to get
the feel that comes with Audi that you can't get with Honda.

> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.

You can have that already. Buy an NSX.

Even Porsches have their mechanical quirks. And mostly what happens
with Audis amounts to, politely, "deferred maintenance."

There are folks out there driving 200k-mile UrS Audis that look and
drive nearly new.

> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.

I doubt anyone does that. You're exaggerating. A lot.

> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?

Because you didn't buy a Honda. Trade it in ASAP, and your gas-sucking
problems will end.

Or maybe you could actually track down the problem, so it does cause
further problems, later. It may be just as simple as a sensor
replacement. And cheap, too ( those are maintenance items, BTW.)

E.P.

Ed Pirrero

tockeyhockey@gmail.com wrote:
> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.

You're wrong. Some of us accept the German engineering quirks to get
the feel that comes with Audi that you can't get with Honda.

> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.

You can have that already. Buy an NSX.

Even Porsches have their mechanical quirks. And mostly what happens
with Audis amounts to, politely, "deferred maintenance."

There are folks out there driving 200k-mile UrS Audis that look and
drive nearly new.

> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.

I doubt anyone does that. You're exaggerating. A lot.

> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?

Because you didn't buy a Honda. Trade it in ASAP, and your gas-sucking
problems will end.

Or maybe you could actually track down the problem, so it does cause
further problems, later. It may be just as simple as a sensor
replacement. And cheap, too ( those are maintenance items, BTW.)

E.P.

Ed Pirrero

tockeyhockey@gmail.com wrote:
> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.

You're wrong. Some of us accept the German engineering quirks to get
the feel that comes with Audi that you can't get with Honda.

> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.

You can have that already. Buy an NSX.

Even Porsches have their mechanical quirks. And mostly what happens
with Audis amounts to, politely, "deferred maintenance."

There are folks out there driving 200k-mile UrS Audis that look and
drive nearly new.

> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.

I doubt anyone does that. You're exaggerating. A lot.

> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?

Because you didn't buy a Honda. Trade it in ASAP, and your gas-sucking
problems will end.

Or maybe you could actually track down the problem, so it does cause
further problems, later. It may be just as simple as a sensor
replacement. And cheap, too ( those are maintenance items, BTW.)

E.P.

Ed Pirrero

tockeyhockey@gmail.com wrote:
> one of the most ridiculous things about this group is that they have
> become so in love with the audi way of life that they think a lack of
> quality is some sort of badge of honor.

You're wrong. Some of us accept the German engineering quirks to get
the feel that comes with Audi that you can't get with Honda.

> there is no reason that people who love audis shouldn't expect the
> quality of a honda and the handling of a porsche.

You can have that already. Buy an NSX.

Even Porsches have their mechanical quirks. And mostly what happens
with Audis amounts to, politely, "deferred maintenance."

There are folks out there driving 200k-mile UrS Audis that look and
drive nearly new.

> it's almost as of the average member of this forum "smiles" while he
> takes his car in for another visit to the mechanic.

I doubt anyone does that. You're exaggerating. A lot.

> by the way, my car is sucking gas like nothing else. anyone know why?

Because you didn't buy a Honda. Trade it in ASAP, and your gas-sucking
problems will end.

Or maybe you could actually track down the problem, so it does cause
further problems, later. It may be just as simple as a sensor
replacement. And cheap, too ( those are maintenance items, BTW.)

E.P.