Alignment and Steering Rack leak
04-07-2013, 09:59 AM
#1
Audi Forum - Posts like an A4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 111
Alignment and Steering Rack leak
Hey Guys,
Wanted your take on an issue.
The last year or so I have been noticing my wheel alignment feels off. I have to keep the steering turned slightly to the left to keep the car straight and if I were keep it straight the car pulls to the right. I also feel a little bit of play on the wheel between straight and the left turned position.
I took my car into IT and was advised that my rack has a leak which is why my alignment is off.
I took my car to my regular mechanic who does all my work and he did say there is a small leak on the rack, but nothing major. He said that leak would not cause the alignment problem I am having. Also I do not notice any leaks or my power steering fluid level going down.
Also, when I first experienced the issue I took to car to Kal tire to test the alignment and they said my alignment is off but they cannot fix it as they do not have the recommended tools to fix the alignment.
Any thoughts ?
Wanted your take on an issue.
The last year or so I have been noticing my wheel alignment feels off. I have to keep the steering turned slightly to the left to keep the car straight and if I were keep it straight the car pulls to the right. I also feel a little bit of play on the wheel between straight and the left turned position.
I took my car into IT and was advised that my rack has a leak which is why my alignment is off.
I took my car to my regular mechanic who does all my work and he did say there is a small leak on the rack, but nothing major. He said that leak would not cause the alignment problem I am having. Also I do not notice any leaks or my power steering fluid level going down.
Also, when I first experienced the issue I took to car to Kal tire to test the alignment and they said my alignment is off but they cannot fix it as they do not have the recommended tools to fix the alignment.
Any thoughts ?
10-25-2013, 01:56 PM
#3
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 58
Re: Alignment and Steering Rack leak
I can't say I agree with you that everyone's moving on from Audis. I certainly love my B6 and I have some wonky steering issues and alignment problems like yours. I can share a few things that I have discovered about my car.
Look up bump steer. toe constant, toe curve and you will see what I mean. For better or for worse, these Audis are precision machines and if the alignment procedure is not followed to a tee, you will get un-predicatable steering and wonky handling.
The main thing you should know is that not everyone can do a proper alignment on your car. In fact I haven't found anyone yet in the GTA that even knows what I am talking about. I've had 4 different 'professional laser alignments' at 3 different reputable facilities and I'm stuck with my problem. I was about to sell the car (no joke) until I did my research and found out the following:
B5's and B6/B7's have what's called a quadra-link suspension up front and requires special attention that your regular alignment shop cannot handle or even know about. I have been dealing with this toe-curve problem since I replaced my steering rack (leaking fluid) and all my front end arms and TR ends (10 pieces). The car hasn't been the same in steering response and handling.
Here's a link for you to review. DIY: B5 A4/S4 - Alignment
I have a cure coming from Germany that should fix all my problems but it won't be here for a couple weeks. I bought a VAG 1925 spacer and adapters that I can use to do a factory approved alignment with. If anyone is curious, I will post once I receive it and get an alignment done. But only if I get responses, otherwise I'll keep it to myself.
Look up bump steer. toe constant, toe curve and you will see what I mean. For better or for worse, these Audis are precision machines and if the alignment procedure is not followed to a tee, you will get un-predicatable steering and wonky handling.
The main thing you should know is that not everyone can do a proper alignment on your car. In fact I haven't found anyone yet in the GTA that even knows what I am talking about. I've had 4 different 'professional laser alignments' at 3 different reputable facilities and I'm stuck with my problem. I was about to sell the car (no joke) until I did my research and found out the following:
B5's and B6/B7's have what's called a quadra-link suspension up front and requires special attention that your regular alignment shop cannot handle or even know about. I have been dealing with this toe-curve problem since I replaced my steering rack (leaking fluid) and all my front end arms and TR ends (10 pieces). The car hasn't been the same in steering response and handling.
Here's a link for you to review. DIY: B5 A4/S4 - Alignment
I have a cure coming from Germany that should fix all my problems but it won't be here for a couple weeks. I bought a VAG 1925 spacer and adapters that I can use to do a factory approved alignment with. If anyone is curious, I will post once I receive it and get an alignment done. But only if I get responses, otherwise I'll keep it to myself.
10-25-2013, 02:13 PM
#4
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 58
Re: Alignment and Steering Rack leak
The following is a very good synopsis I have pulled off the internet that appeared on a few forums. I didn't write it and give full credit to the original author, though what he says about the inboard and outboard ends of the tie rods may be confusing but I'll post it anyways:
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AUDI A4, A8 AND VW PASSAT
These vehicles get the award for the most complicated suspension geometry that's on the road today. The 4-link front suspension has more arms and joints than an octopus (two upper and two lower ball joints on each side, with split upper control arms on top), and uses a "virtual steering axis" to maintain zero caster regardless of the steering angle.
The idea behind this unusual setup is to cancel out all torque steer and to provide extremely precise handling. It works great, but requires special alignment software to handle the caster and SAI readings. So if you haven't updated your alignment equipment since 1997 when this suspension was introduced, you're going to get weird caster and SAI readings.
Actually, you don't need caster or SAI readings because they have no meaning on this suspension. There are camber specifications, but no factory adjustments for correcting individual camber if it is out of specifications. Even so, you can shift the engine cradle right or left to add camber to one side and subtract it from the other.
Toe is adjustable, but there are actually two different toe settings and you have to use the correct procedure or you'll get yourself into trouble. Ordinary toe, which Audi called "un-laden toe," is measured in the usual way. If any corrections are needed, they must be made at the inboard end of the tie rod, not the outboard end. Both ends of the tie rod are adjustable, but the outer end is not for ordinary toe adjustments. It changes the angle between the tie rod and steering arm, which Audi refers to as "raised toe." Adjusting this second toe angle requires special tools (VAG 1925, VAG 1925/3) and a special procedure.
To check or adjust raised toe, the VAG 125 tool is attached to the sub-frame. The vehicle is then raised and lowered on the VAG 1925/3 adapter tool. The tool holds the suspension in a slightly raised position so toe can be measured again. There should be 12 degrees more toe-in on each side than before. If not, the outer tie rod end needs to be adjusted until the specified difference in toe readings is obtained."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AUDI A4, A8 AND VW PASSAT
These vehicles get the award for the most complicated suspension geometry that's on the road today. The 4-link front suspension has more arms and joints than an octopus (two upper and two lower ball joints on each side, with split upper control arms on top), and uses a "virtual steering axis" to maintain zero caster regardless of the steering angle.
The idea behind this unusual setup is to cancel out all torque steer and to provide extremely precise handling. It works great, but requires special alignment software to handle the caster and SAI readings. So if you haven't updated your alignment equipment since 1997 when this suspension was introduced, you're going to get weird caster and SAI readings.
Actually, you don't need caster or SAI readings because they have no meaning on this suspension. There are camber specifications, but no factory adjustments for correcting individual camber if it is out of specifications. Even so, you can shift the engine cradle right or left to add camber to one side and subtract it from the other.
Toe is adjustable, but there are actually two different toe settings and you have to use the correct procedure or you'll get yourself into trouble. Ordinary toe, which Audi called "un-laden toe," is measured in the usual way. If any corrections are needed, they must be made at the inboard end of the tie rod, not the outboard end. Both ends of the tie rod are adjustable, but the outer end is not for ordinary toe adjustments. It changes the angle between the tie rod and steering arm, which Audi refers to as "raised toe." Adjusting this second toe angle requires special tools (VAG 1925, VAG 1925/3) and a special procedure.
To check or adjust raised toe, the VAG 125 tool is attached to the sub-frame. The vehicle is then raised and lowered on the VAG 1925/3 adapter tool. The tool holds the suspension in a slightly raised position so toe can be measured again. There should be 12 degrees more toe-in on each side than before. If not, the outer tie rod end needs to be adjusted until the specified difference in toe readings is obtained."
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Last edited by veedubb; 10-25-2013 at 02:24 PM.
10-25-2013, 02:23 PM
#5
Audi Forum - Posts like an A3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 58
Re: Alignment and Steering Rack leak
One more thing I would like to add to this thread in order to provide more information. I have been in contact with a Master Technician from ZF Industries in the UK describing my problem (I told you that I've researched this to death!). And here's what he has to say about my car when I asked about replicating the tool (before I went and ordered it):
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The procedure is important especially when replacing components like the steering rack and other components. It should be checked and adjusted as part of the normal wheel alignment procedure however it is only the final step in a process.
If you have replaced the front arms and steering on the vehicle then the first step is to check that the suspension bushes are correctly loaded. The suspension arms need to be in a neutral position before the bolts are tightened up. This means no torsional load on the suspension bush when the suspension is at its normal ride height. If the bushes have been tightened up with the suspension hanging down, once the vehicle is at its normal ride height then you are forcing the bush to work outside its tolerances and it will not perform as it is supposed to.
Sub frame, Was the front sub frame moved when the arms were replaced, if so then before carrying out the alignment you should centre the sub frame according to the Audi workshop manual.
Centring of the steering rack, when the alignment is carried out it is important the steering rack is centred. An off centre steering rack moves the pivot point of the tie rod (5th link) during suspension travel this will translate in to an uneven toe deflection.
Tire wear avoid adjusting the geometry of a vehicle with different tread depths across the axle, the adjustment is precise. If you had 2mm on one side and 5mm of tread on the other side you adjust this in on the geometry and when you change the tyres you would then have an imbalance.
Once you are happy that the pre checks are in place then the whole vehicle should be aligned per manufactures specs. The rear axle should be aligned first as this dictates the thrust axis of the vehicle. The rear axles is a reference point if this is incorrect then the front end alignment will be incorrect.
Coming to the point of replicating the tool, this could be difficult and dangerous. The tool has several locking features that prevent its movement when in use. This is important as you are supporting a significant portion of the vehicles weight on the beam VAG 1925. The tool locks to the ramp and the spacers are designed to cup the sub frame bolts preventing the vehicle from moving laterally. I believe the deflection is 69 mm but I will check the tool and confirm this. Because of the weight that is being supported and the way that the vehicle is being raised for safety reasons I can only recommend the use of the correct tool VAG 1925.
If the wheel alignment machine you use has the facility you can graph the s-curve or toe deflection.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The procedure is important especially when replacing components like the steering rack and other components. It should be checked and adjusted as part of the normal wheel alignment procedure however it is only the final step in a process.
If you have replaced the front arms and steering on the vehicle then the first step is to check that the suspension bushes are correctly loaded. The suspension arms need to be in a neutral position before the bolts are tightened up. This means no torsional load on the suspension bush when the suspension is at its normal ride height. If the bushes have been tightened up with the suspension hanging down, once the vehicle is at its normal ride height then you are forcing the bush to work outside its tolerances and it will not perform as it is supposed to.
Sub frame, Was the front sub frame moved when the arms were replaced, if so then before carrying out the alignment you should centre the sub frame according to the Audi workshop manual.
Centring of the steering rack, when the alignment is carried out it is important the steering rack is centred. An off centre steering rack moves the pivot point of the tie rod (5th link) during suspension travel this will translate in to an uneven toe deflection.
Tire wear avoid adjusting the geometry of a vehicle with different tread depths across the axle, the adjustment is precise. If you had 2mm on one side and 5mm of tread on the other side you adjust this in on the geometry and when you change the tyres you would then have an imbalance.
Once you are happy that the pre checks are in place then the whole vehicle should be aligned per manufactures specs. The rear axle should be aligned first as this dictates the thrust axis of the vehicle. The rear axles is a reference point if this is incorrect then the front end alignment will be incorrect.
Coming to the point of replicating the tool, this could be difficult and dangerous. The tool has several locking features that prevent its movement when in use. This is important as you are supporting a significant portion of the vehicles weight on the beam VAG 1925. The tool locks to the ramp and the spacers are designed to cup the sub frame bolts preventing the vehicle from moving laterally. I believe the deflection is 69 mm but I will check the tool and confirm this. Because of the weight that is being supported and the way that the vehicle is being raised for safety reasons I can only recommend the use of the correct tool VAG 1925.
If the wheel alignment machine you use has the facility you can graph the s-curve or toe deflection.
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